things that grind your gears

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TrunksTrevelyan0064
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by TrunksTrevelyan0064 » Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:44 am

PurestEvil wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:39 am
Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo dying and being rendered irrelevant in the Buu saga.
Nothing ground-breaking, just something that makes me INCREDIBLY salty.
Something that has made me feel better about Gotenks and Gohan's roles in the Boo arc: they aren't the only ones training to beat Boo. There's also Mr Satan, who goes after Boo in his own way. And this can be seen as a fun typical Toriyama subversion; the hyped-up fighters fail to defeat the enemy, whereas the one fighter we dismiss as "useless" is actually the one who ultimately tames Boo and plays a key role in taking down the evil one.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by sunsetshimmer » Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:50 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:32 am
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:05 am

That one was the mostly annoying during ToP. How is it MASTERED when Goku reached it only once and can't use it again?
.............


?????

He reached it three different times during the tournament of power.
He reached UI Omen 3 times though? Not full UI.
Still, that doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how many times he reached it and if he mastered it or not. The form's name is ULTRA INSTINCT. There is no such thing as "MUI".
PurestEvil wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:39 am
Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo dying and being rendered irrelevant in the Buu saga.
Nothing ground-breaking, just something that makes me INCREDIBLY salty.

Also, the amount of blatant misinformation in the DB fanbase. No, DB was NOT going to end after Namek, Toriyama was NOT pressured to stop having Gohan be the main character, and Toriyama does NOT hate Vegeta.
Don't forget about:
-Toriyama forgot about tails
-DBS/BoG are Toriyama's revenge for GT (lmao)
-Gogeta is Vegetto's ripoff (it was opposite actually)
-TOEI/Toriyama/Someone else said X is canon and Y is not canon
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Feb 12, 2021 10:00 am

TrunksTrevelyan0064 wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:44 am
PurestEvil wrote:
Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:39 am
Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo dying and being rendered irrelevant in the Buu saga.
Nothing ground-breaking, just something that makes me INCREDIBLY salty.
Something that has made me feel better about Gotenks and Gohan's roles in the Boo arc: they aren't the only ones training to beat Boo. There's also Mr Satan, who goes after Boo in his own way. And this can be seen as a fun typical Toriyama subversion; the hyped-up fighters fail to defeat the enemy, whereas the one fighter we dismiss as "useless" is actually the one who ultimately tames Boo and plays a key role in taking down the evil one.
Mr Satan was the arc's saving grace. For all the bullshit, his befriending of Buu and saving the Earth were actually really good moments.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Soppa Saia People » Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:31 am

lol this really stupid and obviously i'm not really bothered by it but i'm bringing out my 11 year old weeb rage. like i remember like multiple people telling me it was dumb to like Day of Destiny Spirit Vs Spirit because i couldn't understand the lyrics, which looking back was like baffling. like it's a city pop song with latin jazz elements more or less...who wouldn't like that, not to mention it's just lyrics which are always like the least important thing for a non rap/folk song for me.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:20 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:31 am
lol this really stupid and obviously i'm not really bothered by it but i'm bringing out my 11 year old weeb rage. like i remember like multiple people telling me it was dumb to like Day of Destiny Spirit Vs Spirit because i couldn't understand the lyrics, which looking back was like baffling. like it's a city pop song with latin jazz elements more or less...who wouldn't like that, not to mention it's just lyrics which are always like the least important thing for a non rap/folk song for me.
Considering how popular KPOP had become since 2014 ish you were just ahead of your time liking foreign music.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Yosheets » Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:30 pm

Super Saiyan 4 having pants and boots. They could easily cover the crotch with fur since this is a kid show. LOL.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Hulk10 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:12 pm

Yosheets wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:30 pm
Super Saiyan 4 having pants and boots. They could easily cover the crotch with fur since this is a kid show. LOL.
Hmmm that has a point.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Soppa Saia People » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:11 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:20 pm

Considering how popular KPOP had become since 2014 ish you were just ahead of your time liking foreign music.
good song writing is a universal language when you think about it...

it's funny too cus i do think the dragon ball insert songs helped influence my taste in a lot of music, like i know it's probably the most ridiculous yamamoto plagiarized track, but like the texture of battle point unlimited was everything i wanted in music as a kid. that bass is just insane and the bulid up is so tight. also i became a decently big yellow magic orchestra fan because of solid state scounter, which definitely got me into a ton of the more electronic music i like.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by MCDaveG » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:16 am

Yosheets wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:30 pm
Super Saiyan 4 having pants and boots. They could easily cover the crotch with fur since this is a kid show. LOL.
But doesn't he look cooler with pants, boots and wrist bands?
Sure, they are pure magic, but I like the look :lol:

In a series where your hair gets dyed different colours based on transformation or technique and Chi is visible as huge colourful blasts, I guess that is OK 8)
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by marumuju » Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:49 pm

I guess the ground work for the changing clothes had already been established by the fusion forms at the end of Z. Building on top of those, I guess the magical pants seemed logical.

And today we have the changing hair colors in Super. I'm not sure if I prefer that :D

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:25 pm

Honestly as much flack GT gets bothers me a lot. Most people grew up with it on Toonami where they cut the best episodes and went straight to the Z-esque part. Then newer generation automatically believing GT is bad cause it 'failed' when in reality is just about anything after Z was going to fail.

GT is good.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Matches Malone » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:24 am

UltraInstinctRorikon wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:25 pm
Honestly as much flack GT gets bothers me a lot. Most people grew up with it on Toonami where they cut the best episodes and went straight to the Z-esque part.

GT is good.
Cutting out those episodes is why it got as popular as it did in the west, as those were by far among the worst in the entire franchise.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:07 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:24 am
UltraInstinctRorikon wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:25 pm
Honestly as much flack GT gets bothers me a lot. Most people grew up with it on Toonami where they cut the best episodes and went straight to the Z-esque part.

GT is good.
Cutting out those episodes is why it got as popular as it did in the west, as those were by far among the worst in the entire franchise.
You won't catch me agreeing with that view. If anything, pre baby GT is when it's at it's best. The slice of life adventuring is fantastic.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Matches Malone » Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:31 am

UltraInstinctRorikon wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:07 am
Pre baby GT is when it's at it's best.
This definitely belongs in the unpopular topic. :mrgreen:

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Re: Things that grind your gears

Post by Yuli Ban » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:46 pm

SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:28 am
... because of "Granny Goku" and that Goku sounds like a grandma (he doesn't).
Probably the single most ironic aspect of these fans is the fact they tend to be Old Dub purists, exclusively seeking out the '99-'03 version of Z (sometimes even going so far as to seeking the original broadcast version with Nerd Schemmel and Not!Drummond Sabat) and despise the recasts and feel that, to use a wild and totally random example, Linda Young is the "true" voice of Fry-za.

In other words, they only tolerate Granny Freeza. They hate Granny Goku but refuse anyone other than Granny Freeza.

And then usually badly defend this by saying "Well Frieza is pretty effeminate/gay/supposed to sound like a woman anyway but Goku is MANLY and was supposed to sound deep and imposing." I mean I prefer masculine-voice Goku too but come on!
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Re: Things that grind your gears

Post by Yuli Ban » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:13 pm

Dragon Ball Gus wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:48 pm
The freaking people that say "It takes seven episodes to power up in DBZ". Like dawg, have you actually watched the show? :eh: That's not even close to how many episodes it takes for a character to power up, in fact, it doesn't even take an entire episode. It takes like 10 minutes max. This joke ain't funny, bro.
precita wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:18 pm
Most fights in DBZ don't even go on that many episodes with with the obvious exception of Goku Vs. Freeza.

If you rewatch the series most fights are done in an episode or two and the ones that go on multiple episodes at least have different characters fighting (the human cast vs. Nappa for example), or Goku and then the remaining earthlings against Vegeta. The fights against Dodoria, Zarbon and most of the Ginyu Force were also either only 1 episodes or just 2-3 at most.

You watch the fights of the Androids or Cell's earlier forms, again they're about an episode or two apiece.

Every individual fight in the Boo arc is short too, with only Boo against Gotenks/Gohan/Vegito and then the final Kid Boo fight going on a few eps but again there's changes and differences happening in all of them.


You know what it is? It's a psychological phenomenon whose name escapes me. Well, two of them.
One is just pure exaggeration. It obviously never took seven or ten or thirty episodes to actually power up and I don't think anyone making these memes except those with absolutely zero knowledge of Dragon Ball or anime actually believes this; it's just a meme. This meme largely coming out of Goku going Super Saiyan 3, which was itself dragged out for an exaggeratedly long time with a lot of screaming and, in the USA, epic metal riffing behind it.

The fights taking forever? Again. Exaggeration, largely due to the Goku vs. Freeza fight. However I'll also argue that it's because of filler and the episodic format of the show.
We all know Dragon Ball Z has loads of filler to the point it's become infamous for it. Like during Goku vs. Freeza where we'd get a 15-second shot of Goku beating Freeza exchanging a few blows and then an immediate jump cut to Gohan, Bulma, the Namekians, and Vegeta on Earth doing little of substance except repeat how much they hope Goku is safe and then Kaio-sama and the other dead warriors commenting on the battle, and then back to the fight for about 20 seconds or so, repeat. If you cut out those cuts, the whole Super Saiyan Goku vs. Freeza fight is probably about three episodes long max (so maybe an hour if that). Doesn't sound that bad.
Until you consider another factor: most people who remember these scenes watched Dragon Ball Z over the course of years on TV, so it wasn't just an hour + filler. It was watching Goku and Freeza punch each other a few times while exchanging gloats about how little they regard the other with half of the episode being other people repeating how worried they are for Goku, then credits roll until next week, repeat. Whether you're a kid with a lot of free time or an adult who forgot what time was, that can be excruciating to sit through and wait for. Add in the fact this was the early 2000s in America (and even before elsewhere like Mexico and France) and thus the internet isn't your first idea on spoiling yourself if you even have internet access in the first place and you have the issue of people thinking Dragon Ball Z lasted even longer than it did.
And it lasted a very long time even with that taken into consideration.
This is tripled up by the fact many Americans/Westerners aren't exactly used to the television serial style of storytelling that's very common in anime. Here in the US, cartoons typically were episodic with plots that rarely lasted more than two episodes (IIRC this was even mandated by some networks to maximize the ease in which kids could pick up a show). So you pretty much had to keep up each week if you wanted to know what was going on, making it even more of a slog when nothing of consequence happened (and Dragon Ball isn't like One Piece where a scene or line or tiny detail that seems to be of no consequence winds up being extremely important or even narrative-critical a hundred episodes later).

Finally, there's the phenomenon I mentioned way back at the beginning.

You only need to fuck up once. It doesn't matter how well you do something, how much you hammer home a certain point, how competent everything else is, or how long you run. If you screw up or have some particular moment that's easy to remember, that's what people will remember you for. You could write the greatest novel in human history, a work that literally redefines the English language itself, but if there's a chapter about someone with a giant purple triangular dick and people decide to run with that as the most iconic creation of yours, guess what: you're the writer of that pretty good novel with a Giant Purple Triangular Dick. Doesn't matter how many more novels you write either; that's what you're known for now.

One of my favorite examples is Dave Matthews Band. Great band, a classic of the 90s and 2000s who put out loads of great tunes... but most people remember them as the band that accidentally threw a ton of shit on a boat of people. That's what they'll be remembered for the most— forever.
Another is the Dean Scream, though this might be going over the heads of plenty of people on this board.


Dragon Ball Z has the Freeza fight and its infamous Five Minutes as well as the overlong Super Saiyan 3 transformation sequence. These two things basically define Dragon Ball as a franchise in the popular imagination; they're the most extreme and most exaggerated aspects.
Last edited by Yuli Ban on Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Things that grind your gears

Post by Planetnamek » Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:17 pm

Yuli Ban wrote:
Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:46 pm
SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:
Fri Apr 24, 2020 11:28 am
... because of "Granny Goku" and that Goku sounds like a grandma (he doesn't).
Probably the single most ironic aspect of these fans is the fact they tend to be Old Dub purists, exclusively seeking out the '99-'03 version of Z (sometimes even going so far as to seeking the original broadcast version with Nerd Schemmel and Not!Drummond Sabat) and despise the recasts and feel that, to use a wild and totally random example, Linda Young is the "true" voice of Fry-za.

In other words, they only tolerate Granny Freeza. They hate Granny Goku but refuse anyone other than Granny Freeza.

And then usually badly defend this by saying "Well Frieza is pretty effeminate/gay/supposed to sound like a woman anyway but Goku is MANLY and was supposed to sound deep and imposing." I mean I prefer masculine-voice Goku too but come on!
I don't despise the recasts myself, Ayers is fine, it's largely just personal preference for me as I grew up with Young so i'm used to her performance. I don't despise Nozama's Goku, it just sounds kind of strange and alien to me as I grew up with Goku sounding like a dude, though i'm sure that sounds alien to those who grew up watching the original version.

As for people exaggerating how drawn out Z is, part of that wasn't helped at all by the MASSIVE gap between the Saban-Ocean dub and Funimation's own in-house dub, after DBZ arrived on Toonami it took nearly a whole year for season 3 to finally start airing so fans were understandably frustrated and impatient(many fans groaned when they saw Raditz pod coming down to earth again as they knew that meant no new episodes for a while) so the filler in the anime didn't exactly help the show's reputation at this point.

Something similar to the Dave Matthews Band thing was that whole Ashlee Simpson lip-syncing scandal on SNL, seems some people only ever want to talk about that when they bring her up despite the fact that she was an actual talented artist(and it didn't kill her career like some claimed, she had multiple top 40 hits afterwards).
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:23 am

UltraInstinctRorikon wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:07 am
Matches Malone wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:24 am
UltraInstinctRorikon wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:25 pm
Honestly as much flack GT gets bothers me a lot. Most people grew up with it on Toonami where they cut the best episodes and went straight to the Z-esque part.

GT is good.
Cutting out those episodes is why it got as popular as it did in the west, as those were by far among the worst in the entire franchise.
You won't catch me agreeing with that view. If anything, pre baby GT is when it's at it's best. The slice of life adventuring is fantastic.
This is odd, because I know nothing really happens in those 20 episodes or so, there's no (serious) fighting, no regular cast members (only chibi Goku), but as a kid I enjoyed those episodes a lot, even the Star Wars references, maybe that had to do with the Phantom Menace having been released around that time.
I had to get ahold of the european VHS collection that had 3 episodes per casette, and usually I would get them not in order, like episodes 3-5, then episodes 14-16, episodes 25-27, or 45-47, so all those pre-Baby arc episodes I got to watch I enjoyed the hell out of them, one of the reasons being that you didn't need to have watched every single previous episode to grasp what was going on.
The planets looked awesome, the animation was on point -for the most part, and last but not least: the opening was great and those episodes are the only ones that have the opening vibe.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:16 am

Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:23 am
This is odd, because I know nothing really happens in those 20 episodes or so, there's no (serious) fighting, no regular cast members (only chibi Goku), but as a kid I enjoyed those episodes a lot, even the Star Wars references, maybe that had to do with the Phantom Menace having been released around that time.
I had to get ahold of the european VHS collection that had 3 episodes per casette, and usually I would get them not in order, like episodes 3-5, then episodes 14-16, episodes 25-27, or 45-47, so all those pre-Baby arc episodes I got to watch I enjoyed the hell out of them, one of the reasons being that you didn't need to have watched every single previous episode to grasp what was going on.
The planets looked awesome, the animation was on point -for the most part, and last but not least: the opening was great and those episodes are the only ones that have the opening vibe.
They are truly wholesome and just warm my heart. The interactions are great too. And yeah I agree the planets are creative and going to each one really helped keep the episodes fresh. I could watch something like that for many and more episodes.

GT's issue was trying to be something it wasn't and failing to execute and be 'Z'. GT when it was it's own thing and more Dragon Ball-esque was where it shined not pseudo-Z.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:50 am

UltraInstinctRorikon wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:25 pm
Honestly as much flack GT gets bothers me a lot. Most people grew up with it on Toonami where they cut the best episodes and went straight to the Z-esque part. Then newer generation automatically believing GT is bad cause it 'failed' when in reality is just about anything after Z was going to fail.

GT is good.
I feel you man, GT here in Europe ran is it was supposed to with Japanese music and as kids, we loved it!
SSJ4 rocked and SSJ4 Gogeta was the hype... What was really dissapointing in the end for me and my friends, that in comparison to Z, it ended abruptly, kinda unresolved with Goku still being kid and other characters kinda underused - like Gohan for example, who was kinda active during the Baby arc. Still remember watching it on TV as Goku rode away on the Shenron and I really expected that another arc will happen... so the epilogue and ending really caught me by surprise and I hated the Goku Jr. side story TV movie, when I saw it later when internet was faster and P2P a thing.

But yeah, I liked GT a lot and I see the weird stuff in it now, when I am older... one hit wonders like Ledgic, weird villain hiearchy in Baby arc with Guy, that has a whip, but the whip is the real boss, but that whip has another boss, that has another boss, yadda yadda and Myu wasn't the boss, but Baby was, even tho Myu created it, but he really didn't... I didn't paid much attention to this as a kid.
But truth is, that we believed that GT wasn't that popular as Z, so it got canceled early and that is why some stuff is unresolved...
And I know today, that it's not the truth and the series is really kinda weird. But I still love it for it's production value, visuals and BGM which is vastly different than Z, but creates this kind of dark and melancholic atmosphere that I remember the GT series for.

Anyway, I saw the US version later, when I was emulating Game Boy Advance and the release of the first two episodes that appearantly happened on GBA. I was shocked by such stupid retcon, cheap editing and unbelievably boring music that replaced the original one.
Last edited by MCDaveG on Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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