Things that grind your gears

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coola
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by coola » Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:04 pm

MCDaveG wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:50 am
UltraInstinctRorikon wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:25 pm Honestly as much flack GT gets bothers me a lot. Most people grew up with it on Toonami where they cut the best episodes and went straight to the Z-esque part. Then newer generation automatically believing GT is bad cause it 'failed' when in reality is just about anything after Z was going to fail.

GT is good.
I feel you man, GT here in Europe ran is it was supposed to with Japanese music and as kids, we loved it!
SSJ4 rocked and SSJ4 Gogeta was the hype... What was really dissapointing in the end for me and my friends, that in comparison to Z, it ended abruptly, kinda unresolved with Goku still being kid and other characters kinda underused - like Gohan for example, who was kinda active during the Baby arc. Still remember watching it on TV as Goku rode away on the Shenron and I really expected that another arc will happen... so the epilogue and ending really caught me by surprise and I hated the Goku Jr. side story TV movie, when I saw it later when internet was faster and P2P a thing.

But yeah, I liked GT a lot and I see the weird stuff in it now, when I am older... one hit wonders like Ledgic, weird villain hiearchy in Baby arc with Guy, that has a whip, but the whip is the real boss, but that whip has another boss, that has another boss, yadda yadda and Myu wasn't the boss, but Baby was, even tho Myu created it, but he really didn't... I didn't paid much attention to this as a kid.
But truth is, that we believed that GT wasn't that popular as Z, so it got canceled early and that is why some stuff is unresolved...
And I know today, that it's not the truth and the series is really kinda weird. But I still love it for it's production value, visuals and BGM which is vastly different than Z, but creates this kind of dark and melancholic atmosphere that I remember the GT series for.
I remember GT aired "as always" with French dub and Polish voice over until Goku SSJ4 vs Baby, then it switched to Japanese, and at first, i didnt liked why Goku suddenly sound like woman :D

And yes, while GT have lots of flaws, i like it as continuation and closure, everyone but Goku and Vegeta enjoy their everyday life ignoring training. "Genocide? Don't worry, we have Dragon Balls" mentality come and bit them in the butt.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:21 pm

coola wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:04 pm
MCDaveG wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 11:50 am
UltraInstinctRorikon wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:25 pm Honestly as much flack GT gets bothers me a lot. Most people grew up with it on Toonami where they cut the best episodes and went straight to the Z-esque part. Then newer generation automatically believing GT is bad cause it 'failed' when in reality is just about anything after Z was going to fail.

GT is good.
I feel you man, GT here in Europe ran is it was supposed to with Japanese music and as kids, we loved it!
SSJ4 rocked and SSJ4 Gogeta was the hype... What was really dissapointing in the end for me and my friends, that in comparison to Z, it ended abruptly, kinda unresolved with Goku still being kid and other characters kinda underused - like Gohan for example, who was kinda active during the Baby arc. Still remember watching it on TV as Goku rode away on the Shenron and I really expected that another arc will happen... so the epilogue and ending really caught me by surprise and I hated the Goku Jr. side story TV movie, when I saw it later when internet was faster and P2P a thing.

But yeah, I liked GT a lot and I see the weird stuff in it now, when I am older... one hit wonders like Ledgic, weird villain hiearchy in Baby arc with Guy, that has a whip, but the whip is the real boss, but that whip has another boss, that has another boss, yadda yadda and Myu wasn't the boss, but Baby was, even tho Myu created it, but he really didn't... I didn't paid much attention to this as a kid.
But truth is, that we believed that GT wasn't that popular as Z, so it got canceled early and that is why some stuff is unresolved...
And I know today, that it's not the truth and the series is really kinda weird. But I still love it for it's production value, visuals and BGM which is vastly different than Z, but creates this kind of dark and melancholic atmosphere that I remember the GT series for.
I remember GT aired "as always" with French dub and Polish voice over until Goku SSJ4 vs Baby, then it switched to Japanese, and at first, i didnt liked why Goku suddenly sound like woman :D

And yes, while GT have lots of flaws, i like it as continuation and closure, everyone but Goku and Vegeta enjoy their everyday life ignoring training. "Genocide? Don't worry, we have Dragon Balls" mentality come and bit them in the butt.
Yeah, I remember both this and German version later! It was on RTL7, later changed to TVN probably due to some licensing issues.
I was surprised by that switch, but was familiar with the voices kinda from SNES and PS1.
It was first time that I heard the Japanese dub in full glory and got a bit to get used to, as the Japanese voices were kinda higher pitched or rather, more emotional than the French dub which sounded a bit lazy.
But to this day, I consider the German dub being the best one in terms of acting and voices after the original
and I have never got used to the english dub of anime and english dub overal. As being fluent in English both writing and speaking, I do watch all the movies and series in english, but somehow, all the english dubbed shows sound really off...
I had to watch Money Heist in Spanish and Dark in German - which I am not fluent at but at least comprehend, because the english dub was so off acting wise.

Seriously, it's nothing against english speaking people, hell no, but really, english dubbing is so uncanny, that I can't watch anything that was dubbed into english from different language, take it seriously and not being distracted by it.

But nothing beats the excitement and energy of Polish ''one man show'' voiceover :lol:
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by jamiljamtheman » Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:14 pm

Xenoverse 2 forces you to be your own OC in story mode. The combination of mods, DLC, and initial content are incredible for the game, but I mostly play games single player. I’ve always stayed away from purchasing this because I just want to be one of the dragon ball characters playing the story! Not have to make my own OC! I wanna be Goku gosh darnit

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:40 pm

jamiljamtheman wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 6:14 pm Xenoverse 2 forces you to be your own OC in story mode. The combination of mods, DLC, and initial content are incredible for the game, but I mostly play games single player. I’ve always stayed away from purchasing this because I just want to be one of the dragon ball characters playing the story! Not have to make my own OC! I wanna be Goku gosh darnit
Maybe you can recreate Goku and pretend you are trying to fix the past with Trunks?
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Hulk10 » Fri May 21, 2021 9:31 pm

I also wish we could have more variety of choice custimization for the games like Xenoverse 2.

And the claim that U6 Saiyans are inherently stronger than U7 Saiyans due to evolving to no longer having tails.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by MCDaveG » Mon May 24, 2021 4:10 pm

Hulk10 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 9:31 pm I also wish we could have more variety of choice custimization for the games like Xenoverse 2.

And the claim that U6 Saiyans are inherently stronger than U7 Saiyans due to evolving to no longer having tails.
Their designs are definitely weaker :lol:
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Hulk10 » Mon May 24, 2021 4:57 pm

MCDaveG wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 4:10 pm
Hulk10 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 9:31 pm I also wish we could have more variety of choice custimization for the games like Xenoverse 2.

And the claim that U6 Saiyans are inherently stronger than U7 Saiyans due to evolving to no longer having tails.
Their designs are definitely weaker :lol:
Not what I meant.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Nosferatu93 » Wed May 26, 2021 1:22 am

Milking the show with garbage. But it happens to a lot of franchises these days. :(
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by nhienphan2808 » Wed May 26, 2021 10:12 am

- Everyone voiced by Chris Sabat.
- Chichi hate and "Bulma is so much better and more understanding as a love interest/friend/mother and totally Vegeta's queen unlike Chichi with Goku!!!" claims and sentiments in fanwork/fiction.
- Yajirobe and everything about that guy.
- "Cell Saga is the best Saga and SS2 Gohan is a badass!!!!"
- Fanon Vegeta being the main Vegeta that's written and stanned over since forever and right now.
- "Minus is the worst DB canon medium ever and Toriyama is a hack/ruins his own work!!!"
- "Cell Saga is the best Saga and SS2 Gohan is a badass!!!!"
ShadowWolf87 wrote:Freeza beat Goku, beat Vegeta, and destroyed the Earth. Even if no one else knows it, who does? Goku.
Who gets told it's his fault for being so careless? Goku.
Who has to live with that similar to how he wanted to make Freeza live with the fact he'd been beaten by what he considered trash, and have to live with that shame? Goku.
Freeza got the perfect revenge.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Shobijin 小美人 » Wed May 26, 2021 10:23 am

Broly. He's a non-character with zero personality and I don't understand why so many people like him. (Note: I haven't seen the new Broly movie yet, so I can't comment on that version of him.)
nhienphan2808 wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 10:12 am - Everyone voiced by Chris Sabat.
Omg YES. It occurred to me on my recent rewatch of the series that the original Japanese version does this all the time as well, recasting the same small group of actors for various characters, so it's not like doing that in the English dub is a bad thing. But I find all of Sabat's characters just so grating and unappealing to listen to. And I kind of feel bad saying that, because I respect the guy for his part in helping make the series so popular in the US.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by nhienphan2808 » Wed May 26, 2021 10:45 am

Shobijin 小美人 wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 10:23 am Broly. He's a non-character with zero personality and I don't understand why so many people like him. (Note: I haven't seen the new Broly movie yet, so I can't comment on that version of him.)
nhienphan2808 wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 10:12 am - Everyone voiced by Chris Sabat.
Omg YES. It occurred to me on my recent rewatch of the series that the original Japanese version does this all the time as well, recasting the same small group of actors for various characters, so it's not like doing that in the English dub is a bad thing. But I find all of Sabat's characters just so grating and unappealing to listen to. And I kind of feel bad saying that, because I respect the guy for his part in helping make the series so popular in the US.
Yeah i am a fan of early Ryo Horikawa's Vegeta so of course i dont like his voice since the old dub, but i realize my liking for Yamcha and Piccolo suffered because of him too. I dont like any of his acting choices or lines, and it just got more blatant with how much liberties he took with DBS. Vegeta saying "babe" or sounding condescending when talk about Goku's love life. LIke come on. No wonder people care even less about Yamcha and dont care for Piccolo. Vegeta is an exception because of his rabid fanbase but even then i dont think after all these years Sabat even gets his humor and ticks.
ShadowWolf87 wrote:Freeza beat Goku, beat Vegeta, and destroyed the Earth. Even if no one else knows it, who does? Goku.
Who gets told it's his fault for being so careless? Goku.
Who has to live with that similar to how he wanted to make Freeza live with the fact he'd been beaten by what he considered trash, and have to live with that shame? Goku.
Freeza got the perfect revenge.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by MCDaveG » Thu May 27, 2021 3:30 am

Hulk10 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 4:57 pm
MCDaveG wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 4:10 pm
Hulk10 wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 9:31 pm I also wish we could have more variety of choice custimization for the games like Xenoverse 2.

And the claim that U6 Saiyans are inherently stronger than U7 Saiyans due to evolving to no longer having tails.
Their designs are definitely weaker :lol:
Not what I meant.
Yeah, I was joking... power aside, the designs of new characters are quite jarringly not as good as the original designs from the previous series and manga. Hence, they are weaker by design.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by Hulk10 » Thu May 27, 2021 5:20 pm

MCDaveG wrote: Thu May 27, 2021 3:30 am
Hulk10 wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 4:57 pm
MCDaveG wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 4:10 pm

Their designs are definitely weaker :lol:
Not what I meant.
Yeah, I was joking... power aside, the designs of new characters are quite jarringly not as good as the original designs from the previous series and manga. Hence, they are weaker by design.
Interesting way to think of it.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by SuperSunnyDee » Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:41 pm

I think fans who treat power scaling as a hard science is what gets under my skin the most. At that point it feels like setting yourself up for disappointment, but it’s when it’s said aloud and starts making waves is when it gets irritating.

Yes, I think power levels matter, and the fan calculations seem reasonable, but ultimately a writer is just gonna go with what sounds right on a storyboard rather than a whiteboard.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:09 pm

SuperSunnyDee wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:41 pm I think fans who treat power scaling as a hard science is what gets under my skin the most. At that point it feels like setting yourself up for disappointment, but it’s when it’s said aloud and starts making waves is when it gets irritating.

Yes, I think power levels matter, and the fan calculations seem reasonable, but ultimately a writer is just gonna go with what sounds right on a storyboard rather than a whiteboard.
It’s just weird and obnoxious how fans are so obsessed with a concept that was only prominent in TWO story arcs.

Like I don’t care what you think the numeric value of Goku’s power was when he turned Super Saiyan 3 against Fat Boo.

Those stupid guide books and movie pamphlets that make ridiculous claims like Pilaf having a fighting power of 40 or Funimation’s own obsession with power levels do not help at all.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by SuperSunnyDee » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:28 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:09 pm
SuperSunnyDee wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:41 pm I think fans who treat power scaling as a hard science is what gets under my skin the most. At that point it feels like setting yourself up for disappointment, but it’s when it’s said aloud and starts making waves is when it gets irritating.

Yes, I think power levels matter, and the fan calculations seem reasonable, but ultimately a writer is just gonna go with what sounds right on a storyboard rather than a whiteboard.
It’s just weird and obnoxious how fans are so obsessed with a concept that was only prominent in TWO story arcs.

Like I don’t care what you think the numeric value of Goku’s power was when he turned Super Saiyan 3 against Fat Boo.

Those stupid guide books and movie pamphlets that make ridiculous claims like Pilaf having a fighting power of 40 or Funimation’s own obsession with power levels do not help at all.
I think a lot of what made power levels so enduring has to do with scouters. Scouters are cool, and they are used well in the story by a cool organization. You press a button on an multicolored eye piece that reads out a number which you can laugh smugly at or be left slack mouthed at. I think scouters made power levels cooler and more appealing than what they would’ve been if they were just designated stats.

And I heard that the Saiyan and Frieza sagas were on loop on American television for a while so maybe it just got ingrained into western audiences after a while because of that.

I don’t care much for calculations. I think it’s cool people do it. And I listen if people wanna share it. But it’s when there’s an attitude of “This is definitely how it works and if anything challenges this notion then the story is clearly not trying to be consistent with its own math” that I have an issue. Because I don’t think anyone was trying to be consistent with the math and just went with what numbers or scales sounded reasonable to their ears.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by RashFaustinho » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:55 am

There are some things that I don't like, and mostly it's made worse by the fandom.

Gogeta, Vegito and their fandoms are probably at the top tier spot. These two characters are the most wanked things in existence in this brand, the fandom love towards them is simply excessive, and people often cannot accept the fact that you think that a given X character is stronger or better than them, or that you simply don't like the fusions in general. In official products such as videogames it doesn't get any better. They get the strongest cards in Dokkan / Heroes, they get cutscenes out of nowhere in FighterZ, they are always bringer of the hype in any DLC content, eclipsing any character that can arrive together with them.
The wanking for these characters goes on and beyond anything that can be conceived.

Also, I don't like Ultra Instinct. Like, at all. I consider it one of the worst ideas ever conceived for Dragon Ball.
In the past I triggered some people with this, because to other people both UI Sign Goku and UI Blanco Goku look "cool" with these icy cold eyes, and they have some very good animation during ToP, so some fans can't get over the fact that I don't like him in any way, shape or form. As much """cool""" a Goku with disheleved hair can look, I much rather Blue Evolution.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:17 am

RashFaustinho wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:55 am Also, I don't like Ultra Instinct. Like, at all. I consider it one of the worst ideas ever conceived for Dragon Ball.
What about Ultra Instinct do you not like?
As much """cool""" a Goku with disheleved hair can look, I much rather Blue Evolution.
SSJB evo is so bright and oversaturated, it looks ugly. It's there only for Vegeta to have a form that compliments Goku's Kaioken-SSJB.
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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by RashFaustinho » Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:39 am

PurestEvil wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:17 am
RashFaustinho wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:55 am Also, I don't like Ultra Instinct. Like, at all. I consider it one of the worst ideas ever conceived for Dragon Ball.
What about Ultra Instinct do you not like?
As much """cool""" a Goku with disheleved hair can look, I much rather Blue Evolution.
SSJB evo is so bright and oversaturated, it looks ugly. It's there only for Vegeta to have a form that compliments Goku's Kaioken-SSJB.
Many things. The fact that he learns a technique that even gods couldn't learn in 48 minutes. The fact that Automatic Dodge is something that's too hard and complicated to fit in Dragon Ball due to how fights works (not surprisingly, during their battle in the Anime Jiren managed to land a punch, and that was the very first appareance of UI Blanco, going forward it just gets worse). The very fact that Goku transforms into a... Tecnique? Never made any sense to me. Why should he change like that? Why does he ALSO get a boost in raw Power? Why is Blue + UI not effective as much?
It looks like more an Angel form than a Ultra Instinct Form to me, but they never say this out loud and still classify it as "Ultra Instinct" Form, the whole dodgy thing is a gimmick that will be power crept over and over the more enemies Goku will face, so what's the point?
Also, it doesn't help that the hair color is so unoriginal and uninspired that Spanish memes got it before the form even existed. And I'd even argue that Gohan Blanco makes more sense than Goku UI Blanco.

The good thing about Blue Evolution, and the reason I like it more, it's because it's introducing the concept that Vegeta can follow a different Transformation Route and doesn't have to lag behind his rival like it was with the "numerical" Super Saiyans.
It's a concept that is easier to explore and also more interesting than whatever-the-heck Goku got.

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Re: things that grind your gears

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:18 am

RashFaustinho wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:39 am The fact that Automatic Dodge is something that's too hard and complicated to fit in Dragon Ball due to how fights works
Complicated? It is literally just a fighter's instincts being enhanced by god ki to the point of the body totally relying on it.
The very fact that Goku transforms into a... Tecnique? Never made any sense to me.
Kaioken operates in a similar fashion.
Why is Blue + UI not effective as much?
The UI being applied to Blue is not the full state. Also, Blue is said to take a toll on stamina.
It looks like more an Angel form than a Ultra Instinct Form to me, but they never say this out loud and still classify it as "Ultra Instinct" Form, the whole dodgy thing is a gimmick that will be power crept over and over the more enemies Goku will face, so what's the point?
This is like rhetorically asking what the point of Super Saiyan was with the its basis being "Goku was going to get stronger anyways!"
Since it is an angelic form, UI cements the connection between Goku and Whis in regards to Whis' mentorship. As we see in the start of this new arc with Vegeta starting to follow the Hakai path, this will grow in narrative significance.
Also, it doesn't help that the hair color is so unoriginal and uninspired that Spanish memes got it before the form even existed. And I'd even argue that Gohan Blanco makes more sense than Goku UI Blanco.
This can apply to the super saiyan god forms. Tinting Goku's hair whatever color and calling it a new form has been going on since digital art became a popular medium in social media.
Besides, it is an angelic form, and angels have white hair. So no, I would not say it is "uninspired".
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