Non-thread-worthy discussions

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Shaddy
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Shaddy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:08 am

It seems to me like that's one transformation higher than the pink one we see in the new movie. Like, the shoulder and chest bits destroyed the armor, so he didn't have them before that, like in the Broly film.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:40 am

I met two guys named Tien and Tao today, which shouldn't have weirded me out as much as it did.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:35 am

mute_proxy wrote: He did imagine it, it's in his manga.
See answer by Shaddy.

The source of Broly's strength should come from the fact that in 40 years of existence he hasn't spread his seed and has only eaten monsters and lived on an inhospitable planet.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by mute_proxy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:00 am

Shaddy wrote:It seems to me like that's one transformation higher than the pink one we see in the new movie. Like, the shoulder and chest bits destroyed the armor, so he didn't have them before that, like in the Broly film.
The lines on his arms indicate that he already has the exoskeleton form when wearing the armor in the movie (5 years after Freeza is introduced to planet Vegeta), not just when he broke the armor off in Z. The pink form doesn't have arm lines, means he transformed during those 5 years. There are also figures out there where you can see his exoskeleton shoulders showing beneath the shoulderpads

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:28 am

mute_proxy wrote: The lines on his arms indicate that he already has the exoskeleton form when wearing the armor in the movie (5 years after Freeza is introduced to planet Vegeta), not just when he broke the armor off in Z. The pink form doesn't have arm lines, means he transformed during those 5 years. There are also figures out there where you can see his exoskeleton shoulders showing beneath the shoulderpads
We get a good look of his shoulders in the movie, while he's destroying Vegeta and there are no exoskeleton shoulder pads in sight.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by mute_proxy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:35 am

dbgtFO wrote:
mute_proxy wrote: The lines on his arms indicate that he already has the exoskeleton form when wearing the armor in the movie (5 years after Freeza is introduced to planet Vegeta), not just when he broke the armor off in Z. The pink form doesn't have arm lines, means he transformed during those 5 years. There are also figures out there where you can see his exoskeleton shoulders showing beneath the shoulderpads
We get a good look of his shoulders in the movie, while he's destroying Vegeta and there are no exoskeleton shoulder pads in sight.
They're visible only when the armor is removed, as was in the original series. Or are you saying he has another extra form with lines on arms and no exoskeleton.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:43 am

mute_proxy wrote: They're visible only when the armor is removed, as was in the original series. Or are you saying he has another extra form with lines on arms and no exoskeleton.
I'm saying like Shaddy that it seems like he only gets the exoskeleton as part of his transformation to second form.
The lines I interpret as an age thing like wrinkles, so not something he gains through transformation.
Last edited by dbgtFO on Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by mute_proxy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:56 am

dbgtFO wrote:
mute_proxy wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
I'm saying like Shaddy that it seems like he only gets the exoskeleton as part of his transformation to second form.
The lines I interpret as an age thing like wrinkles, so not something he gains through transformation.
I could give you 30 years worth of data saying otherwise

Daizenshuu for example, see the numbering?
And how deliberately high the exoskeleton starts so that it'd get covered by the armor
Also, the whole wrinkle thing, his legs and tail have lines, while the arms don't, that theory makes little sense

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by dbgtFO » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:01 pm

mute_proxy wrote: I could give you 30 years worth of data saying otherwise

Daizenshuu for example, see the numbering?
And how deliberately high the exoskeleton starts so that it'd get covered by the armor
Also, the whole wrinkle thing, his legs and tail have lines, while the arms don't, that theory makes little sense
If I have learned anything from modern Dragon Ball, it's that the past is the past and will be messed with at the creators' leisure.

His exoskeleton is not visible, because it isn't there, either by design choice, which would lead back to Toriyama perhaps intending for him to look like his child self, but with wrinkles or because he hadn't thought of Freeza naked until he made the chapter, where he transforms or it's an "anime eye hid by a lock of hair" situation.

Since you've posted images, I might as well too, as it happens the manga has decent panels of Freeza's shoulders:
The last one being noteworthy because in the first panel, where he breaks his armor, the shoulder plates actually cover almost his entire shoulders, but don't do so in the next panels(one of which you used as an example). It's a weird inconsistency to say the least, considering they are right next to each other in the chapter.
In any case, if the plates were always meant to be there, it doesn't make sense they aren't there in the side view panels.

Also about the lines on his body, neither his arms or legs have them in his earliest appearance in the movie, only the tail does at the time.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Shaddy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:49 pm

The lines don't really make a difference compared to the skeleton. There's no indication that those are even necessarily determined by what form he's in, since that'd mean they aren't there at first, come in at his second form, then go away again at his fourth.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by mute_proxy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:40 pm

dbgtFO wrote: His exoskeleton is not visible, because it isn't there, either by design choice, which would lead back to Toriyama perhaps intending for him to look like his child self, but with wrinkles or because he hadn't thought of Freeza naked until he made the chapter, where he transforms or it's an "anime eye hid by a lock of hair" situation.

Here's another one by Toriyama from 1995, yeah it seems he just hadn't thought up what Freeza would look like without the armor before hand

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:03 pm

If anyone who hasn't seen the movie was itching to see a little bit of Vegeta vs Broly in HD here you go.

https://ew.com/movies/2019/01/09/watch- ... -clip/amp/

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Noah » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:25 am

Image


How tall was Gohan when he fought Cell? I believe it could me something around 1,40 cm as Cell is probably around 1,90 cm and considering Goten and Trunks might be around 1,30 cm, I think 1,40 is fine for a eleven-year old.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:28 am

Noah wrote:Image


How tall was Gohan when he fought Cell? I believe it could me something around 1,40 cm as Cell is probably around 1,90 cm and considering Goten and Trunks might be around 1,30 cm, I think 1,40 is fine for a eleven-year old.
Cell looks more to be 1.70cm tall.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Noah » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:35 am

JohnnyCashKami wrote:Cell looks more to be 1.70cm tall.
That's not possible was Goku is described to be 1,75 cm in an official guide IIRC.

And Cell is clearly taller than that:

Image
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:37 am

Noah wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote:Cell looks more to be 1.70cm tall.
That's not possible was Goku is described to be 1,75 cm in an official guide IIRC.

And Cell is clearly taller than that:

Image
Then he's like 1.80cm because he doesn't look that tall.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by mute_proxy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:15 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
Noah wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote:Cell looks more to be 1.70cm tall.
That's not possible was Goku is described to be 1,75 cm in an official guide IIRC.

And Cell is clearly taller than that:

Image
Then he's like 1.80cm because he doesn't look that tall.
That is NOT 5 centimeters between them. Piccolo is 225 cm and Cell is definitely not 45cms shorter

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by zarmack » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:32 pm

Dragonball in general (especially the original manga) was never consistent with character heights, especially with Vegeta. In some scenes he's shorter than Bulma, then in other ones he's a head taller than her and near Goku's height.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:03 am

zarmack wrote:Dragonball in general (especially the original manga) was never consistent with character heights, especially with Vegeta. In some scenes he's shorter than Bulma, then in other ones he's a head taller than her and near Goku's height.
He's been taller than Bulma throughout Super, so that seems to be what they are going for now(in the Buu arc, sketches of his character design also showed him as taller than Bulma, but I can't recall, if it was consistent).
I don't like it and I can't help thinking, that they changed it, because Vegeta being shorter than his wife is a no go for them, while they don't have that problem with Krillin and #18, because Krillin isn't supposed to be as important.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by zarmack » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:48 am

dbgtFO wrote:
zarmack wrote:Dragonball in general (especially the original manga) was never consistent with character heights, especially with Vegeta. In some scenes he's shorter than Bulma, then in other ones he's a head taller than her and near Goku's height.
He's been taller than Bulma throughout Super, so that seems to be what they are going for now(in the Buu arc, sketches of his character design also showed him as taller than Bulma, but I can't recall, if it was consistent).
I don't like it and I can't help thinking, that they changed it, because Vegeta being shorter than his wife is a no go for them, while they don't have that problem with Krillin and #18, because Krillin isn't supposed to be as important.
Or maybe its because Vegeta simply looks better taller. Seriously, the most aesthetically pleasing designs for Vegeta all tend to give him longer limbs and height than he had in the Saiyan & Early Namek arcs.

Also, one thing I've noticed about the DBZ anime (and the Z movies) compared to the original manga is that it tends to make basically everyone look taller and longer limbed, especially since the Android arc. Adult Goku is supposed to be about 5'8ish officially, yet the anime makes him look 6'1.

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