Non-thread-worthy discussions

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Grimlock
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Grimlock » Wed Feb 16, 2022 2:31 am

The first paragraph supports the idea that Golden Oozaru is the actual Super Saiyan form (though it doesn't clarify as to what the yellow-haired transformation is then).

I can't make heads or tails about the second paragraph, if Golden Oozaru is Super Saiyan, what's "evolved from Super Saiyan" supposed to mean?
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Feb 16, 2022 9:35 am

Civic wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:27 am In GT when Goku (and subsequently Vegeta) turn Golden Great Ape, is it specifically said anywhere that they are turning SSJ while in Great Ape form, or is it to do with the amount of Blutz waves they absorb at the time that triggers it?
Vegeta received the Blutz waves and turned into a regular ohzaru... faked to be out of control, and after outing himself that he was playing, he went golden ohzaru, and then SS4.
So, the implication is that no, not necessarily the transformation is triggered on its own due to the amount of waves. Vegeta Baby was already "transformed"(Geet's body) when he went Golden Ohzaru, and Goku went ape and then golden. Maybe losing control of the form makes one go SS as well, like every ounze of power within is unleashed and Vegeta can control that.

I would take GT Perfect Lies with a grain of salt, though. It wasn't actually written by the writers or anybody that was part of the show(at least not an important part of the show), it has a history of going against what the writers had planned, shown, and they have even been contradicted by GT writers. So, I wouldn't take their word for anything GT-related.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Grimlock » Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:14 am

Since we were getting off-topic:
KentMan wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:38 pmOk don’t know why you’re getting angry? I only ask for Launch cause I wish she would come back and I’m joking about that some people don’t care. I’m not bothered about why people care about Goten and Trunks growing up. I’m just weirded out because everyone is obsessed with something that was obviously gonna happen.
Far from being "angry", I'm challenging you to a conversation in a more serious tone, in lights of your last posts. I don't know where your "obviously" comes from. Yes, they showed Pan aged up a little bit but that did not confirm that other characters would age up as well. This franchise is known for making weird decisions, so it wouldn't be too far-fetched to think only Pan and Dende would be older. "Expect the unexpected. The impossible is possible, and the obvious can be an illusion." - Me Grimlock, 2022.
KentMan wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:38 pmYou keep forgetting that trunks and future Trunks are different they didn’t get the Super Saiyan forms at the same age. (...) I will always nag that Toyotaro draws Goku fat in the face but what can I do?
:lol:

Okay that caught me off-guard, I didn't see those... uh... "arguments" coming, especially the latter! :clap:
KentMan wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:38 pmI think I already covered that their timelines don’t match up with one another and that cause issues. So I think I’m gonna leave it as it is.
I mean, if you can prove that those "issues" also affect someone's biology, sure.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by KentMan » Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:34 am

Grimlock wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:14 am Since we were getting off-topic:
KentMan wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:38 pmOk don’t know why you’re getting angry? I only ask for Launch cause I wish she would come back and I’m joking about that some people don’t care. I’m not bothered about why people care about Goten and Trunks growing up. I’m just weirded out because everyone is obsessed with something that was obviously gonna happen.
Far from being "angry", I'm challenging you to a conversation in a more serious tone, in lights of your last posts. I don't know where your "obviously" comes from. Yes, they showed Pan aged up a little bit but that did not confirm that other characters would age up as well. This franchise is known for making weird decisions, so it wouldn't be too far-fetched to think only Pan and Dende would be older. "Expect the unexpected. The impossible is possible, and the obvious can be an illusion." - Me Grimlock, 2022.
KentMan wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:38 pmYou keep forgetting that trunks and future Trunks are different they didn’t get the Super Saiyan forms at the same age. (...) I will always nag that Toyotaro draws Goku fat in the face but what can I do?
:lol:

Okay that caught me off-guard, I didn't see those... uh... "arguments" coming, especially the latter! :clap:
KentMan wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 10:38 pmI think I already covered that their timelines don’t match up with one another and that cause issues. So I think I’m gonna leave it as it is.
I mean, if you can prove that those "issues" also affect someone's biology, sure.
I mean since they said that it was near the End Of Z it was gonna be obvious that Goten and Trunks we’re gonna ya know change. Well about the timeline thing remember how different 17 and 18 are in both timelines? Their personalities are different and their appearance and power are different too. I say that’s just one of the evidences other than Trunks basically pointing out how much time has changed. And They’re again half Saiyans so they age differently than humans except for Bulmas parents.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Grimlock » Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:42 pm

KentMan wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:34 amI mean since they said that it was near the End Of Z it was gonna be obvious that Goten and Trunks we’re gonna ya know change.
We are (relatively) close to "end of Z" since Universe Survival saga, which takes place merely four years before the tournament.
KentMan wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:34 amWell about the timeline thing remember how different 17 and 18 are in both timelines? Their personalities are different and their appearance and power are different too.
Biology doesn't determine one's personality. Power is also determined by outside factors. You're trying to make a point without knowing a thing about DNA and such. You may want to pay more attention to Biology class in your school.
Extreme_kai wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:05 pmTheir interactions together are fun and interesting to me and many fans.
It was to me too in the beginning. But once I realized their interactions basically comes down to a temporary "truce" and that there's nothing more to it other than them not caring for each other, it quickly becomes a cliche and bland relationship for someone to get invested into. Dragon Ball needs more villains who care for their relatives (shout out to Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse for doing that!), some new layers to their personalities will always be welcome.
Extreme_kai wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:05 pmKuriza would be fun too, why not have both?
Because there is the "Freeza fatigue" we should be cautious about. Too much Freeza and for a prolonged time may become a problem eventually. I only want Kuriza (and maybe Chilled) because he would bring something new to the table.

And because this idea of creating counterparts to existing villains is not a good idea. It would be better to bring Cooler right from movie dimension.
Extreme_kai wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:05 pmMy thing is Cooler being there would open up more about Freeza's past history, and his species in general.
I don't think we need Cooler for that when King Cold is already there to be properly developed and explored.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by KentMan » Mon Feb 21, 2022 9:58 pm

Grimlock wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 8:42 pm
KentMan wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:34 amI mean since they said that it was near the End Of Z it was gonna be obvious that Goten and Trunks we’re gonna ya know change.
We are (relatively) close to "end of Z" since Universe Survival saga, which takes place merely four years before the tournament.
KentMan wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 5:34 amWell about the timeline thing remember how different 17 and 18 are in both timelines? Their personalities are different and their appearance and power are different too.
Biology doesn't determine one's personality. Power is also determined by outside factors. You're trying to make a point without knowing a thing about DNA and such. You may want to pay more attention to Biology class in your school.
Extreme_kai wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:05 pmTheir interactions together are fun and interesting to me and many fans.
It was to me too in the beginning. But once I realized their interactions basically comes down to a temporary "truce" and that there's nothing more to it other than them not caring for each other, it quickly becomes a cliche and bland relationship for someone to get invested into. Dragon Ball needs more villains who care for their relatives (shout out to Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse for doing that!), some new layers to their personalities will always be welcome.
Extreme_kai wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:05 pmKuriza would be fun too, why not have both?
Because there is the "Freeza fatigue" we should be cautious about. Too much Freeza and for a prolonged time may become a problem eventually. I only want Kuriza (and maybe Chilled) because he would bring something new to the table.

And because this idea of creating counterparts to existing villains is not a good idea. It would be better to bring Cooler right from movie dimension.
Extreme_kai wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:05 pmMy thing is Cooler being there would open up more about Freeza's past history, and his species in general.
I don't think we need Cooler for that when King Cold is already there to be properly developed and explored.
So Goten and Trunks will change because time obviously passed I won that. Don’t know what your obsession with biology is. But if you had payed attention to everything I said. You would know that Trunks tampering with the past causes anomalies as they call it. Two easy victories. And yes bring back Cooler

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Noah » Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:28 pm

It's funny how people (me included) get all excited about Goten and Trunks being grow-ups just to get into nowhere as was in GT and probably will be on Super in this movie or in a new animated series...
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Krillin1994 » Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:28 pm

I've been rewatching some of early GT and Pan doesn't seem as annoying as everyone seemed to make her out to be. I mean everyone says she's whiny, but she is just a child still really, and even less like any of the other Son Children since she's been far more ingrained into normal society from early life comapred to Goku, Gohan and Goten just being raised in the sticks.

It stood out mostly when she's scared and crying before the crew crash land on Imecka, when Bulma realises a chunk of the ship fell off. She asks Trunks how it is, and he basically tells her theyll all die. Is it a surprise that she's whiny in responses to situations like this. She's really just a child not that used to adventure, suddenly in space on a mission to save everyone. Kid Gohan in the Saiyan arc felt way more whiny than she has so far (and this is dub Pan too might I add)
Noah wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:28 pm It's funny how people (me included) get all excited about Goten and Trunks being grow-ups just to get into nowhere as was in GT and probably will be on Super in this movie or in a new animated series...
Hey we need Goten and Trunks to appear in this movie, to hype us all up for them to spectacularly fail so that we can all speculate how they can use that going forward in the future of dragonball to drive growth and development, just like Gohan in RoF...........oh wait.........................

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by MyVisionity » Tue Feb 22, 2022 11:49 pm

Krillin1994 wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 10:28 pm I've been rewatching some of early GT and Pan doesn't seem as annoying as everyone seemed to make her out to be. I mean everyone says she's whiny, but she is just a child still really, and even less like any of the other Son Children since she's been far more ingrained into normal society from early life comapred to Goku, Gohan and Goten just being raised in the sticks.
She gets more whiny and annoying as the series progresses. I agree that Pan is a better character in early GT. Once they return to Earth, the character doesn't fare as well. I also agree that she didn't have the experiences that Gohan had that would make her more mature. However, I imagine that had Pan been a boy, the character might have been written better.

Unfortunately, we never got the chance to see how the character might have grown. Once the Baby Saga ended, the show was just trying to wrap things up. Had the series continued forwards, Pan could have gotten some interesting character development.

Yūko Minaguchi as Pan is great. She does a good job in those Doltakki episodes.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by ZeroNeonix » Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:29 pm

I just realized the manga's explanation of Evil Buu inheriting the Grand Supreme Kai's power, while Good Buu retained his knowledge, may retroactively explain why Kid Buu is stronger than Fat Buu. As we know, Buu gets more powerful by absorbing others, taking their abilities and power. So then, Kid Buu should logically be the weakest form of Buu, since he is the purest form of Buu. Well...he might be the weakest form of Evil Buu, but if he has the Kai's power, and Good Buu does not, that may be why all forms of Evil Buu trump Good Buu. It explains why the grey, skinny form of Buu won so effortlessly against Good Buu, even though you'd think they'd be on equal ground if they truly were two halves of the same whole.

The only thing it doesn't explain is why Fat Buu (prior to dividing in half) is weaker than Super Buu. Maybe it's just that the Kai's power was dormant, while Super Buu knew how to tap into that power. I don't know. Whatever the case, this is definitely what Toriyama had in mind, when he wrote the story nearly 30 years ago.[/sarcasm]

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:20 am

ZeroNeonix wrote: Mon Feb 28, 2022 11:29 pm I just realized the manga's explanation of Evil Buu inheriting the Grand Supreme Kai's power, while Good Buu retained his knowledge, may retroactively explain why Kid Buu is stronger than Fat Buu. As we know, Buu gets more powerful by absorbing others, taking their abilities and power. So then, Kid Buu should logically be the weakest form of Buu, since he is the purest form of Buu. Well...he might be the weakest form of Evil Buu, but if he has the Kai's power, and Good Buu does not, that may be why all forms of Evil Buu trump Good Buu. It explains why the grey, skinny form of Buu won so effortlessly against Good Buu, even though you'd think they'd be on equal ground if they truly were two halves of the same whole.

The only thing it doesn't explain is why Fat Buu (prior to dividing in half) is weaker than Super Buu. Maybe it's just that the Kai's power was dormant, while Super Buu knew how to tap into that power. I don't know. Whatever the case, this is definitely what Toriyama had in mind, when he wrote the story nearly 30 years ago.[/sarcasm]
I think that's it.
The god ki boost expected for Majin Buu didn't happen because of, well Shin said the good nature of the Dai was the reason why he wasn't as dangerous as before, and I guess it also applies to the power boost that never happened.
So, Buu got the power but with the Dai's personality at the wheel, it got locked inside and when the internal restructuring took place, it got unlocked. Not even when Majin Buu got mad he could access that power, and when he got even more mad, he fully released it, and was consumed, literally, by it.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by FortuneSSJ » Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:33 pm

It's 2022 and people still make jokes about Piccolo being Gohan's dad. Never found it funny.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by PurestEvil » Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:54 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote: Wed Mar 02, 2022 4:33 pm It's 2022 and people still make jokes about Piccolo being Gohan's dad. Never found it funny.
People still use the troll face and pull rickrolls online.
Some memes just cannot die.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Gilby1385 » Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:06 am

Am I the only one who likes to think that Saiyans are named after not just vegetables, but vegetables they hate? For example, Goku states that he hates carrots in DB episode 9, despite his Saiyan name, Kakarot, being a play on carrot.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:36 am

Gilby1385 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:06 am Am I the only one who likes to think that Saiyans are named after not just vegetables, but vegetables they hate? For example, Goku states that he hates carrots in DB episode 9, despite his Saiyan name, Kakarot, being a play on carrot.
So Vegeta hates all vegetables?

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by PurestEvil » Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:47 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:36 am
Gilby1385 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:06 am Am I the only one who likes to think that Saiyans are named after not just vegetables, but vegetables they hate? For example, Goku states that he hates carrots in DB episode 9, despite his Saiyan name, Kakarot, being a play on carrot.
So Vegeta hates all vegetables?
Well, he did tell Beerus that the Saiyans kinda deserved getting omnicided by Freeza
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Grimlock » Thu Mar 03, 2022 11:21 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:36 amSo Vegeta hates all vegetables?
No, Vegeta hates half of them. Tarble hates the other half.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Gilby1385 » Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:05 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:36 am
Gilby1385 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 10:06 am Am I the only one who likes to think that Saiyans are named after not just vegetables, but vegetables they hate? For example, Goku states that he hates carrots in DB episode 9, despite his Saiyan name, Kakarot, being a play on carrot.
So Vegeta hates all vegetables?
LOL! I was thinking that too!
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:29 pm

Vegeta does have some contempt towards his fellow saiyans... he had no quarrels with completely exterminating them after needlessly killing Nappa and trying to kill Goku and Gohan.

So at least in Z, he does hate pretty much every single saiyan alive.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by ZeroNeonix » Fri Mar 04, 2022 1:52 am

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:29 pm Vegeta does have some contempt towards his fellow saiyans... he had no quarrels with completely exterminating them after needlessly killing Nappa and trying to kill Goku and Gohan.

So at least in Z, he does hate pretty much every single saiyan alive.
Vegeta was--and still is--a complicated guy. He takes great pride in his Saiyan heritage, and his greatest pet peeve is seeing another Saiyan fail to live up to the ideals he feels Saiyans should hold themselves to. He killed Nappa because he was paralyzed. Could he have been fixed with alien technology? Maybe. I don't know. Or maybe seeing Nappa in a pitiful state, begging to be saved, made him see him as a weak embarrassment of a Saiyan elite. As for Goku, he'd already renounced his Saiyan heritage (in the Saiyan arc), so killing him was easy. He probably would have liked to take Gohan with him, but thought he was too dangerous to control. I feel like, in general, he'd rather his race go extinct than have to endure seeing another Saiyan besmirch their bloodline. This is why, to this day, even after he's gone through a ton of character growth, he still can't stand his brother Tarble. The guy is just the least Saiyan-y Saiyan ever.

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