Non-thread-worthy discussions

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Koitsukai
I Live Here
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:52 pm

When they need to resurrect somebody, is there a time limit? can they resurrect Raditz who died like 20 years ago, for instance?

I don't know where I got this, but if a certain amount of time goes by, the death is final?

Because there's always somebody wanting to delay the resurrection of somebody so they can wish like for the villains to be killed or stopped or defeated... but say, that did happen, that Shenron killed the saiyans, and Goku will have to wait to come back to life, can they still resurrect him, no matter how long he's been dead for?

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6191
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jul 13, 2022 3:28 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Wed Jul 13, 2022 2:52 pm When they need to resurrect somebody, is there a time limit? can they resurrect Raditz who died like 20 years ago, for instance?

I don't know where I got this, but if a certain amount of time goes by, the death is final?

Because there's always somebody wanting to delay the resurrection of somebody so they can wish like for the villains to be killed or stopped or defeated... but say, that did happen, that Shenron killed the saiyans, and Goku will have to wait to come back to life, can they still resurrect him, no matter how long he's been dead for?
They can't be brought back if they've been dead for over a year. This wasn't brought up until the end of the Namek arc, which probably means Toriyama didn't think of it until he realized characters asking Shen Long to bring back "everyone killd by Freeza" would include all the Saiyans from 20 years ago.

In Toriyama's defense, it was Kami who brought up this rule, iirc, so it wasn't just something the characters always knew despite previously suggesting on holding off on their resurrection wish.

User avatar
ZeroNeonix
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1393
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:35 pm

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by ZeroNeonix » Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:59 pm

Frieza was definitely dead for more than a year. My impression was that once a soul was reincarnated, then it would be too late to revive their previous body to life. Maybe one year is typically how long it takes for a soul to be reincarnated?

Dragon Ball Ireland
I Live Here
Posts: 3511
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:09 am
Location: Sligo, Ireland

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:27 am

The rules of the Dragon Balls change depending on where the story is going. Originally Namek's Dragon Balls only allowed one person to be revived at a time, then when the Boo arc came around it was "well actually we've created a new set of Dragon Balls now that can revive more than one person at a time". Likewise, yes in Resurrection F Freeza was dead for longer than the Earth's Dragon Balls should have been allowed to revive him, but he needed to return for the big battle in that movie. I do like that they had the limitation he could only be brought back in the cut up form he was left in, as that at least gave some drawback.

Come to think of it, if Toriyama had the idea for Resurrection F in the 90s it may have worked better if it was placed before the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai. Goku could have seen Freeza returning to Earth, used that as his one day to return to the living world and returned again after Old Kai gave him his life when Boo emerged. Since Gotenks didn't defeat Super Boo and only allowed him to grow stronger by being absorbed Goku returning to see his friends and family and teach the Fusion dance didn't help much, but if he had already returned before to face Freeza again it would have added to his decision to ask for Kid Boo to be reincarnated as he would have had first hand experience of seeing how a villain can be resurrected and become exponentially more powerful and dangerous.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6191
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:09 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 4:27 am The rules of the Dragon Balls change depending on where the story is going. Originally Namek's Dragon Balls only allowed one person to be revived at a time, then when the Boo arc came around it was "well actually we've created a new set of Dragon Balls now that can revive more than one person at a time
There was an explanation for that one though. New Grand Elder new Dragon Balls new rules.


".
Come to think of it, if Toriyama had the idea for Resurrection F in the 90s it may have worked better if it was placed before the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai. Goku could have seen Freeza returning to Earth, used that as his one day to return to the living world and returned again after Old Kai gave him his life when Boo emerged. Since Gotenks didn't defeat Super Boo and only allowed him to grow stronger by being absorbed Goku returning to see his friends and family and teach the Fusion dance didn't help much, but if he had already returned before to face Freeza again it would have added to his decision to ask for Kid Boo to be reincarnated as he would have had first hand experience of seeing how a villain can be resurrected and become exponentially more powerful and dangerous.
Bringing Freeza back again a mere 2 years after his death in real time would have been overkill.

Dragon Ball Ireland
I Live Here
Posts: 3511
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:09 am
Location: Sligo, Ireland

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:59 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:09 am There was an explanation for that one though. New Grand Elder new Dragon Balls new rules.
Fair.
MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:09 amBringing Freeza back again a mere 2 years after his death in real time would have been overkill.
I don't mean bringing Freeza back before the artificial humans arrive, I was thinking if the events of Resurrection F took place during the 7-year gap between the Cell arc and Saiyaman, because, as I said in this hypothetical rewrite Goku is still dead and would return to Earth for a day because of Freeza returning. This would obviously necessitate rewriting the Boo arc too because Goku would have used up his day in the living world, but I find it interesting to consider where things would have gone if that were the case.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

User avatar
Asin
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:46 pm
Location: Floating in space

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Asin » Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:35 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:59 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 8:09 amBringing Freeza back again a mere 2 years after his death in real time would have been overkill.
I don't mean bringing Freeza back before the artificial humans arrive, I was thinking if the events of Resurrection F took place during the 7-year gap between the Cell arc and Saiyaman, because, as I said in this hypothetical rewrite Goku is still dead and would return to Earth for a day because of Freeza returning. This would obviously necessitate rewriting the Boo arc too because Goku would have used up his day in the living world, but I find it interesting to consider where things would have gone if that were the case.
Masenko means 2 years in our real world time, I think. In which that is the case, yeah, bringing him back 2 years after we saw his ass whooping on Namek (which, minor side note, took place on Christmas if I'm remembering right, so I guess Freeza's Christmas gift was getting obliterated) would have been indeed be overkill.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6191
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:30 am

Asin wrote: Thu Jul 14, 2022 9:35 am


Masenko means 2 years in our real world time, I think. In which that is the case, yeah, bringing him back 2 years after we saw his ass whooping on Namek (which, minor side note, took place on Christmas if I'm remembering right, so I guess Freeza's Christmas gift was getting obliterated) would have been indeed be overkill.
Correct, that's why I said in real time. As there was only about 2 years in real world time between Trunks slicing Freeza to pieces and the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai.

MrGohanks
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:51 am

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by MrGohanks » Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:54 pm

Does anyone else think that we're gonna get a Yamoshi arc or movie in the future?

User avatar
BeaBumby
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:51 am
Location: Wario Land
Contact:

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by BeaBumby » Mon Jul 18, 2022 3:34 pm

I don't particularly like Sean Schemmel's delivery as of late

feels a little one-note compared to the 2000's.

like it's either
"hey, it's me goku! woooh this is fun!"
or
"hrrrngh, you're pretty tough. GRAUUUHHH"

though I don't doubt others feel he was ALWAYS like that
Hiya! I'm Bea :]
she/her yknow


uhhh me icon was drawn by bestest friend ever! feel free to compliment their artistic prowess!

User avatar
ZeroNeonix
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1393
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:35 pm

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by ZeroNeonix » Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:31 pm

MrGohanks wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:54 pm Does anyone else think that we're gonna get a Yamoshi arc or movie in the future?
World building doesn't really seem to be a priority for Dragon Ball Super. We get a little bit of it, but most of it is just big flashy battles. I don't expect to see a Yamoshi arc, or an arc where Vegeta visits Sadala, or Frieza attempting to usurp the gods.

MrGohanks
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:51 am

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by MrGohanks » Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:38 pm

ZeroNeonix wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 7:31 pm
MrGohanks wrote: Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:54 pm Does anyone else think that we're gonna get a Yamoshi arc or movie in the future?
World building doesn't really seem to be a priority for Dragon Ball Super. We get a little bit of it, but most of it is just big flashy battles. I don't expect to see a Yamoshi arc, or an arc where Vegeta visits Sadala, or Frieza attempting to usurp the gods.
Those are all good plot ideas the series is missing out on.

User avatar
SaiyanGod117
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1241
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:31 am

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:02 pm

I don't like how Vegeta's character development is used as a foil for Goku's regression. Also, some parts of Vegeta's so called development seem a little fast or over the top. On the other hand, for Goku, neither Toyotaro nor Toriyama know how to write his character, the former doesn't have a good grasp on his character while the latter has forgotten how to write his character. His last good depiction was in Battle of the Gods or Revival of F Movies, while everything else during or after Super, including the Broly movie, was average or subpar.

User avatar
ZeroNeonix
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1393
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:35 pm

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by ZeroNeonix » Mon Jul 25, 2022 3:12 pm

SaiyanGod117 wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:02 pm I don't like how Vegeta's character development is used as a foil for Goku's regression. Also, some parts of Vegeta's so called development seem a little fast or over the top. On the other hand, for Goku, neither Toyotaro nor Toriyama know how to write his character, the former doesn't have a good grasp on his character while the latter has forgotten how to write his character. His last good depiction was in Battle of the Gods or Revival of F Movies, while everything else during or after Super, including the Broly movie, was average or subpar.
We disagree, but that's okay. I don't get the sense that Toriyama has known what to do with Vegeta ever since the story left Namek. He started off as a stereotypical villain, then turned into an anti-hero. Then he returned to Earth with the others, shagged the girlfriend of one of the people he murdered (as a convenient excuse for Trunks' existence), and then he just sort of hung around as this guy who was sort of there to be Goku's slightly more evil counterpart. It wasn't until the Buu arc that the character really solidified into a coherent personality, IMO.

I like how he's portrayed in Super. It follows up with his character development in the Buu arc in a satisfying way to me. He devoted himself as a father, despite being a loner at nature who struggles to show his emotions. Although he has admitted that Goku is better than him, and always will be one step ahead of him, he has come to peace with that and continues his rivalry anyway. His Saiyan pride won't let him surrender, and he expressed in Resurrection F how he considers Goku the carrot (ironically) that drives him to continue improving. There are multiple layers of duality to him that make him more interesting than any other character in the series now.

I also like how Vegeta's approach to handling threats varies with Goku's. Goku is one to show mercy, while Vegeta will eliminate a threat as soon as possible. At least until somewhat recently in the manga, when Vegeta decided to be more merciful as a form of repentance for all the lives he took as a villain. The only thing I didn't like about him in the Broly movie was how he and Goku fused to fight Broly. I thought the Buu arc already established that the two wouldn't fuse to fight an unfused opponent. They wouldn't even do that to fight Jiren, when their whole universe was at stake. The only other time they fused in Super was to fight Fused Zamasu, and even then, Vegeta was hesitant to agree to it.

User avatar
SaiyanGod117
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1241
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:31 am

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:25 pm

I like some of Vegeta's development in the manga, but that's not what I'm talking about. My main issue is with Super and how Goku's character is purposely regressed to highlight Vegeta's development. Consequently, its one of those situations where the writers can't make one character look good without the downfall of another, it's bottom of the barrel writing. For example, Vegeta tells Goku he's a bad father whereas he didn't hug Trunks for the first 8 years of his life, left his wife and infant son for dead during the Android Saga, physically assaulted Future Trunks several times, and abruptly left his family for half a year to go train with Whis.
Also, to play devil's advocate most of Vegeta's growth is never seen and his actions in the Buu Saga veer more towards a temper tantrum than some deep emotional internal battle. If he truly cared for the family he had, then he wouldn't have put them in jeopardy by letting himself be controlled by Babidi and aid in releasing of Buu all for a fight. Then, there's all this other stuff about him feeling sorry for all the people the Saiyans killed when he never showed a hint of that remorse through his words or actions this emotional turmoil sprung up out of nowhere. Even as a child, one of the most emotionally reactionary stages of his life, he similed from ear to ear when he learned that all Saiyans, including his father, had been wiped out.
I also like how Vegeta's approach to handling threats varies with Goku's. Goku is one to show mercy, while Vegeta will eliminate a threat as soon as possible.
Yea, I have mostly no problem with that. What I have problems with is how the facets of Vegeta's character is constantly getting highlighted or developed sometimes to a point that it becomes corny. While Goku's is getting dutifully neglected and regressed. Surprisingly, Toyotaro said Goku is his favorite character but it's clear as day that's a lie. Outside of the main villain victories, Goku's character gets zero attention while Vegeta gets shoehorned in about every other chapter, most recently is with Bardock and Saiyan Pride. In which was supposed to be something pivotal for Goku's character growth yet somehow Vegeta got more out of it and altogether, it was redundant as it just amounted to not giving up that something Goku has been doing since he was a child.

User avatar
Noah
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8141
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:56 pm
Location: Virtual World

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Noah » Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:56 pm

I hope by the time DB Legends finishes its main story (probably may take a long while), Toei could invest in doing OVAs about it.
Shallot is actually a good lead and the premise is a bit Heroes-ish but still interesting.
乃亜

Top 10 DB/Z/GT Songs

Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?

User avatar
Koitsukai
I Live Here
Posts: 4265
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:41 pm

Fusion should be more intimate than having sex or being in love. I don't think I could look in the eyes of my fusee afterwards. Or maybe I would... :think:

User avatar
BeaBumby
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 214
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2021 10:51 am
Location: Wario Land
Contact:

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by BeaBumby » Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:30 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:41 pm Fusion should be more intimate than having sex or being in love. I don't think I could look in the eyes of my fusee afterwards. Or maybe I would... :think:
That's kinda how Steven Universe does it lol
Hiya! I'm Bea :]
she/her yknow


uhhh me icon was drawn by bestest friend ever! feel free to compliment their artistic prowess!

User avatar
FortuneSSJ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5810
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by FortuneSSJ » Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:31 am

Sometimes I stop to think how crazy is we are having new DB content. If I told my younger self Dragon Ball would return like this, he wouldn't believe it. Even less if they told some movies would come to Portugal theaters.

Now I look back to DB world and can't imagine it without all the new stuff.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8233
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Grimlock » Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:44 am

QuakingStar wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:51 amI have to keep reminding myself that old information cannot retcon new information.
Hey, uh... A little question: the panel below establishes that Bulma is sixteen years old, and while Goku's age will change at some point in the future, Bulma's age in this specific point in time remained the same until the very end of the manga.

So, Bulma was born in AGE 733, therefore being sixteen years old in AGE 749.

Image

In Movie 14, she says she's turning thirty-eight years old, the year is AGE 778. If we do some basic math, AGE 778 - 38 = AGE 740, we discover that Bulma was born in a different year and it means she was nine years old when she met Goku.

My question is, just out of curiosity, which information do you take as fact? What it's said in the manga or what it's said in the movie?
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

Post Reply