Non-thread-worthy discussions

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MyVisionity
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:02 am

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:43 pm Lol I'm currently on the RRA saga in Dragon Ball (it's my first time watching the sub in full for OG DB+Z).
Has your overall impression of the Red Ribbon saga changed in any way with the rewatch? Or with Uranai Baba?

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:33 am

MyVisionity wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:02 am
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 1:43 pm Lol I'm currently on the RRA saga in Dragon Ball (it's my first time watching the sub in full for OG DB+Z).
Has your overall impression of the Red Ribbon saga changed in any way with the rewatch? Or with Uranai Baba?
While I doubt they'll top the Tenshinhan, Piccolo Daimao, or Piccolo Jr. arcs for me, I hold them in high regard and would put them above the earlier Dragon Ball arcs. Well Baba...if I view it on its own, probably my least favorite, but now I see it more so as the tail-end of the RRA arc. And I found myself enjoying those episodes as a nice breather where the cast was together again in a lighter story; it didn't drag for me at all like it did for some others.

The RRA arc was full of filler, but honestly I really enjoy the filler. I love Goku's adventures and seeing him exploring the world more. And this was to me where Kikuchi's score went to another level.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by MyVisionity » Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:27 am

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:33 am The RRA arc was full of filler, but honestly I really enjoy the filler. I love Goku's adventures and seeing him exploring the world more. And this was to me where Kikuchi's score went to another level.
The filler during the first DB series overall was done much better than in the Z-era. I think part of that may have been because they weren't running as close to the manga as they were later on, so the filler was handled with more care. Though I don't like the filler where Taopaipai goes up the Karin Tower in the middle of the fight. That was cheap.

I agree about Kikuchi's score. And the insert songs were all great as well. Oddly the Red Ribbon saga is the most that they ever used insert music throughout the entire series.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:54 am

MyVisionity wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:27 am The filler during the first DB series overall was done much better than in the Z-era. I think part of that may have been because they weren't running as close to the manga as they were later on, so the filler was handled with more care. Though I don't like the filler where Taopaipai goes up the Karin Tower in the middle of the fight. That was cheap.
I definitely agree that DB filler was handled much better than Z filler, with the only exception being the Saiyan saga filler (which I remember being a fan of mostly). As for the Tao Pai Pai filler, I would dislike it if not for the over-the-top way he's running sideways up the tower. It is absolutely hilarious and fitting for a man who throws and rides a beam into the air. I also like the clear contrast with his meeting with Karin and Goku's. But yes, ultimately it was obviously just stalling for time, since he was a joke to Goku at that point.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by jamiljamtheman » Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:53 pm

Apparently someone who uses the anime filler list website decided that the ENTIRETY of Dragon Ball GT should be marked “Filler”. Episodes 1-64, entirely.

This mildly annoys me, because I think it’s pretty clear that DB->Z->GT worked well enough as a cohesive story, it’s Super’s later introduction that makes irreconcilable differences making GT less “canonically plausible”.

Still, with a franchise that doesn’t really care much about “what’s canon”, and on a website with options like “Anime Canon”, it seems like whoever marked the ENTIRE SERIES “filler” was a comically salty dragon ball fan. Just thought I’d like to share that with you all today.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by PurestEvil » Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:48 pm

jamiljamtheman wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:53 pm Apparently someone who uses the anime filler list website decided that the ENTIRETY of Dragon Ball GT should be marked “Filler”. Episodes 1-64, entirely.
That is just dumb. "Filler" and "noncanonical" do not mean the same thing.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:39 pm

jamiljamtheman wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:53 pm Still, with a franchise that doesn’t really care much about “what’s canon”, and on a website with options like “Anime Canon”, it seems like whoever marked the ENTIRE SERIES “filler” was a comically salty dragon ball fan. Just thought I’d like to share that with you all today.
That's definitely someone just looking to stoke the fire :lol: . You can say GT is non-canonical to the manga or the current iteration of Dragon Ball with Super, but to say it's "filler" to the original DB+Z anime doesn't make sense. I mean, the initial airing of EoZ had a NEP of GT episode 1, if I'm not mistaken. I know that was just technically just Toei marketing it, but it was still there. It wasn't created to be a filler series; it was the actual anime continuation at one point.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:51 pm

jamiljamtheman wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 2:53 pm Apparently someone who uses the anime filler list website decided that the ENTIRETY of Dragon Ball GT should be marked “Filler”. Episodes 1-64, entirely.

This mildly annoys me, because I think it’s pretty clear that DB->Z->GT worked well enough as a cohesive story, it’s Super’s later introduction that makes irreconcilable differences making GT less “canonically plausible”.

Still, with a franchise that doesn’t really care much about “what’s canon”, and on a website with options like “Anime Canon”, it seems like whoever marked the ENTIRE SERIES “filler” was a comically salty dragon ball fan. Just thought I’d like to share that with you all today.
Gotta admit that's really funny. And I happen to like GT and disagree with a take like that if serious, but damn it's funny to list GT as one big filler arc lol. 64 filler episodes...

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:52 pm

Naruto Shippuden: HOLD MY BEER.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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SupremeKai25
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:10 pm

They call GT filler because Dragon Ball content moving forward ignores GT completely (outside of crossover side videogames like Heroes and Xenoverse), and so they are basically telling a new viewer that nothing in that series will be taken into consideration in the upcoming Super content (including the upcoming movie).

That's probably their reasoning.

It must also be noted that the website is made to serve as a GUIDE for NEW viewers approaching a certain franchise, and so it makes sense that they would focus on what is the ongoing storyline of Dragon Ball... which ignores GT completely, hence the label given by the website :think:

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:13 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:10 pm They call GT filler because Dragon Ball content moving forward ignores GT completely (outside of crossover side videogames like Heroes and Xenoverse), and so they are basically telling a new viewer that nothing in that series will be taken into consideration in the upcoming Super content (including the upcoming movie).

That's probably their reasoning.

It must also be noted that the website is made to serve as a GUIDE for NEW viewers approaching a certain franchise, and so it makes sense that they would focus on what is the ongoing storyline of Dragon Ball... which ignores GT completely, hence the label given by the website :think:
Maybe so. It's still pretty funny though, and inaccurate.
Last edited by Demon Prince Piccolo on Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by ZeroNeonix » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:36 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:10 pm They call GT filler because Dragon Ball content moving forward ignores GT completely (outside of crossover side videogames like Heroes and Xenoverse), and so they are basically telling a new viewer that nothing in that series will be taken into consideration in the upcoming Super content (including the upcoming movie).

That's probably their reasoning.

It must also be noted that the website is made to serve as a GUIDE for NEW viewers approaching a certain franchise, and so it makes sense that they would focus on what is the ongoing storyline of Dragon Ball... which ignores GT completely, hence the label given by the website :think:
As someone said earlier, non-canon is not the same as filler. Filler is when an anime stalls for time by making stuff up, allowing the manga time to catch up. Calling GT "filler" implies that the entire anime existed just to hold our attention until Super came, which is just silly. Are all of the DBZ movies also "filler," because their events are never acknowledged in canon material?

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:40 pm

....................................................Yes.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:59 pm

Except that they're not. They're not important to the main story by Toriyama, but the movies and GT were made to capitalize on the Dragon Ball brand, not to stall for time while waiting for the manga to catch up, or to stall until Super came out (that very notion is laughable). The movies and GT were every bit the "brand promoters/extended advertisements" that Super is now. Let's not pretend Super's being made because there was actually more story to tell; it was made to promote the Dragon Ball brand, and that's it. And I like Super; this isn't even to say that some of the stories haven't been good. But if it's not filler (the anime at least), neither are the Z movies or GT.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:19 am

ZeroNeonix wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:36 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:10 pm They call GT filler because Dragon Ball content moving forward ignores GT completely (outside of crossover side videogames like Heroes and Xenoverse), and so they are basically telling a new viewer that nothing in that series will be taken into consideration in the upcoming Super content (including the upcoming movie).

That's probably their reasoning.

It must also be noted that the website is made to serve as a GUIDE for NEW viewers approaching a certain franchise, and so it makes sense that they would focus on what is the ongoing storyline of Dragon Ball... which ignores GT completely, hence the label given by the website :think:
As someone said earlier, non-canon is not the same as filler. Filler is when an anime stalls for time by making stuff up, allowing the manga time to catch up. Calling GT "filler" implies that the entire anime existed just to hold our attention until Super came, which is just silly. Are all of the DBZ movies also "filler," because their events are never acknowledged in canon material?
That's not a general rule.

For instance, I'm pretty sure the movie retellings existed to give Toriyama some time to figure out new arcs (since they made Super right away after RoF's success), but they still wouldn't be considered filler, even though they have worse animation than most fillers and exist just to fill up some time for Toriyama to come up with original stories. So what you found is a pattern/coincidence but not a rule.

"Filler" is simply something that "you don't need to watch to understand the ongoing storyline". And thus for a new viewer who is likely interested in the best way to watch the various shows in order and will likely watch the upcoming movie, GT is indeed not important to watch to understand the ongoing storyline...

Actually now that I think about it the website did the right, unbiased thing. GT is, simply put, filler :roll: You don't need it to watch Super, you don't need it to watch the Broly movie, you don't need it to watch the upcoming movie, you don't need it to watch any upcoming content, thus it is indeed considered filler for this reason. You don't need to watch it to understand the story. Maybe you need to watch it for the videogames stories which tend to feature the SS4 Saiyans, but why would an ANIME guide care about videogames?

The biased thing here would have been to label GT as "anime canon", out of nostalgia or personal bias towards the show, because that's simply not canon to anything. It is a self-contained story with no connection to any other story (outside of videogames). So like filler.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:57 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:19 am That's not a general rule.

For instance, I'm pretty sure the movie retellings existed to give Toriyama some time to figure out new arcs (since they made Super right away after RoF's success), but they still wouldn't be considered filler, even though they have worse animation than most fillers and exist just to fill up some time for Toriyama to come up with original stories. So what you found is a pattern/coincidence but not a rule.

"Filler" is simply something that "you don't need to watch to understand the ongoing storyline". And thus for a new viewer who is likely interested in the best way to watch the various shows in order and will likely watch the upcoming movie, GT is indeed not important to watch to understand the ongoing storyline...

Actually now that I think about it the website did the right, unbiased thing. GT is, simply put, filler :roll: You don't need it to watch Super, you don't need it to watch the Broly movie, you don't need it to watch the upcoming movie, you don't need it to watch any upcoming content, thus it is indeed considered filler for this reason. You don't need to watch it to understand the story. Maybe you need to watch it for the videogames stories which tend to feature the SS4 Saiyans, but why would an ANIME guide care about videogames?

The biased thing here would have been to label GT as "anime canon", out of nostalgia or personal bias towards the show, because that's simply not canon to anything. It is a self-contained story with no connection to any other story (outside of videogames). So like filler.
You kind of missed the whole point of what he's saying. He wasn't saying GT was "anime canon," he was saying it wasn't the same thing as filler. And he's correct on that. Maybe whoever made the guide was going by your logic, but I don't see how that makes them "unbiased." We're not talking about how GT should be viewed in context of Super and the current storyline, but rather considering the context of its place in Dragon Ball media when it was released. It wasn't necessarily "canon" then either, but it wasn't treated as a filler series.
Last edited by Demon Prince Piccolo on Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:03 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 1:57 pm You kind of missed the whole point of what he's saying. He wasn't saying GT was "anime canon," he was saying it wasn't the same thing as filler. And he's correct on that. Maybe whoever made the guide was going by your logic, but I don't see how that makes them "unbiased."
That website, from what I have seen, has 3 labels.

Manga canon
Anime canon
Filler

So if GT is not labelled as filler it's labelled either as manga or anime canon. But it can't be neither since it doesn't have a manga in the first place, how can something in GT be based on the manga or be an additional piece of info to the manga when there's no manga in the first place :think:

Regardless you can contact them if you want, I'm sure they have a forum or something. Maybe you are indeed right and it was just some butthurt guy who changed it all from "Anime canon" to "filler" although I think that person would have had their reason for doing that.

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Demon Prince Piccolo
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:05 pm

Eh, that's all right. Again, maybe they are going according to your logic, in which case I can understand why they labeled it as such, especially if those are the only labels. I find it more funny than anything.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by ZeroNeonix » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:51 am

If they only have those three labels, they need more, for the sake of accuracy. GT, Dragon Ball Heroes, and the movies aren't filler. They're non-canon. I feel like they only had Super in mind when making those labels. Manga canon vs anime canon, because both Toyotaro and TOEI took Toriyama's outline in different directions. Then they just have "filler" as the label for things Toriyama had nothing to do with. That's oversimplifying things.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Nov 11, 2021 4:09 am

ZeroNeonix wrote: Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:51 am If they only have those three labels, they need more, for the sake of accuracy. GT, Dragon Ball Heroes, and the movies aren't filler. They're non-canon. I feel like they only had Super in mind when making those labels. Manga canon vs anime canon, because both Toyotaro and TOEI took Toriyama's outline in different directions. Then they just have "filler" as the label for things Toriyama had nothing to do with. That's oversimplifying things.
All understandable but you need to write this on their platform because they don't read this forum.

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