Non-thread-worthy discussions

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by HeroR » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:05 am

nickzambuto wrote:
ryou766 wrote:Yeah, about Geekdom, there's something about his personality that I don't like. I always cringe when he says the Japanese titles in his videos. It's like, "oh, shut up and get to the review already please.."
I used to hate him. He was such a macho try-hard bordering on narcissism. There's something... very unlikeable about a person informing the audience about how amazingly good looking they and how many girls they get while they're making a YouTube video reviewing anime.

I think he's toned the bragging down though, and when I realized how very interesting and thoughtful his discussion actually is, I was able to get over it.

Hail Zeon is interesting and thoughtful to, but just so horrendously negative that I wonder why he's even wasting so much time talking about Dragon Ball so much when he doesn't even seem to like it.
Honestly, the way Hail Zeon talks, I wonder how he can watched Dragon Ball period since the stuff he often wails on Super about is stuff that happens all the time in the franchise. In fact, I bet he got into the series as a kid or a teenager and while acknowledging the flaws of the series, he's more willing to forgive them, while his more critical adult self won't let things go.

Overall, there seems to be a disconnect with Dragon Ball Youtubers and the fandom with the ending the Future Trunks Saga. Most of the Youtubers hated the ending so much that it ruined the entire story arc for them and some wondering if they're going to keep watching Super, and wondering if Super can damaged the franchise since the 'best' saga in Super turned out this badly or is nowhere near as good as the stuff that came before.

While, from the other forums I have visited, the ending was shocking, but I have seen people loving it because it was so surprising, dark, and dealt with the heroes having a real defeat that the Dragon Balls can't fix. In fact, people seem to look more favorably on this last episode compared to Episode 66, which was a more typical Dragon Ball ending. I am not sure why this disconnect happened, but it's interesting to watch.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:15 pm

Why do no Dragon Ball characters have last names? It doesn't bug me, and I know the main scheme behind the naming of characters is puns, shits and giggles, but it would nice to have a Dragon Ball character that has an actual forename and surname. Instead of just one or the other.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Doctor. » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:42 pm

Why is everyone claiming that the arc could have ended if Goku had brought the seal?

First off, even if Goku HAD the seal, there's no way he could have given it to Trunks. He couldn't teleport and both him and Vegeta were getting outmatched by Black. Plus, Goku was the one who knew the technique, so there'd be no reason for him to give the seal to anyone else before the battle started.

Second, even if Zamasu was properly sealed, Black could very easily break the jar open.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by kinisking » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:04 pm

I've given Trunks shit for being a Gary Sue this arc but I really like how he's gotten more tactical. It feels like a natural progression of his character. I can totally believe he's gotten smarter at fighting now that he's older and more experienced.
Doctor. wrote:Why is everyone claiming that the arc could have ended if Goku had brought the seal?

First off, even if Goku HAD the seal, there's no way he could have given it to Trunks. He couldn't teleport and both him and Vegeta were getting outmatched by Black. Plus, Goku was the one who knew the technique, so there'd be no reason for him to give the seal to anyone else before the battle started.

Second, even if Zamasu was properly sealed, Black could very easily break the jar open.
Speaking of this, why did they even make Goku forget the seal? Why couldn't they have just said that it set on fire when Black shot a ki blast at the time machine?
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Noah » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:59 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Noah wrote:
kinisking wrote:So... goku effectively destroyed Trunks' life. He motivated Zamasu, didn't go ahead and kill black in episode 50, forgot the seal and pressed the omni king button.
With this post, can we say that Goku is one of the biggest asshole in the series? Like dbzfan7 pointed back in Episode #50, I never understand why didn't Trunks gone mad with Goku by not giving a f*** about Black and just wanted to fight him for funsies, he could have defeated him straight by using his full power.
It's kinda of like what happened in the Majin Boo arc, where Goku stated how he no idea how to defeat Majin Boo then very shortly after meeting Majin Boo, he pulls SSJ3 out of his ass, and just to make matters worse, he openly states he was strong enough at that time to kill Majin Boo. But didn't because he wanted the new generation to save the day. Which in itself makes no sense because he could have prevented Majin Boo from being released in the first place by either not fooling around with Babidi's minions or transforming into a SSJ3 against SSJ2 Majin Vegeta and knocking him out with one blow.
Well, to be fair I didn't like this in Boo Arc either. Goku could just have ended the conflict with Super Saiyan 3, but there are some excuses like: not being used to the form and like you said he was dead and felt like it shouldn't be his responsability to protect the Earth, he just wanted to leave to the new generation, BS, but still.

In this arc a better way to not picture Goku as a bigger asshole could be he not holding back on Black for Trunks, but then Goku would spare him because he would want know what is going on, that's when Black is sucked back by the portal of the Time Ring.
Doctor. wrote:First off, even if Goku HAD the seal, there's no way he could have given it to Trunks. He couldn't teleport and both him and Vegeta were getting outmatched by Black. Plus, Goku was the one who knew the technique, so there'd be no reason for him to give the seal to anyone else before the battle started.

Second, even if Zamasu was properly sealed, Black could very easily break the jar open.
Define: outmatched

Is not like Goku and Vegeta were taking the beating of their lives by Black, they are just wasting time with his clones, we could argue that Black was still below Vegeta and adding Goku and Trunks in the battle, they could defeat him.

After Trunks sucessfuly seals Zamasu, is not like he would go to the battlefield with the jar, he would just leave it to Mai and go fight Black and the latter wouldn't know jack about what happened with Zamasu.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:25 pm

Dabra killing Beerus in Trunks's timeline (after killing Kaioshin, Old Kaioshin, and Kibito, and nearly killing Trunks) made me inexplicably happy.
Lord Beerus wrote:Why do no Dragon Ball characters have last names? It doesn't bug me, and I know the main scheme behind the naming of characters is puns, shits and giggles, but it would nice to have a Dragon Ball character that has an actual forename and surname. Instead of just one or the other.
It's just a thing in this universe. Videl is actually surprised that Gohan has a family name, commenting that such a thing is basically unknown.
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Danfun64 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:35 pm

This is a question for those who are fluent in Japanese and have read the manga. In the anime, there are several times where Goku ate during his journey across Snake Way (the clouds, the apple in Hell, Princess Snake's palace) and it gave the impression that people needed to regularly eat in the afterlife. In at the very least Viz's translation of the manga, Goku explicitly tells Kaio that he didn't eat anything along the journey. Is that also what is said in the original Japanese?
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Soppa Saia People » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:08 am

Hearing and seeing "DBZ" annoys me, but for some reason "Dragon Ball Z" doesn't.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by nite_jay » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:19 am

Soppa Saia People wrote:Hearing and seeing "DBZ" annoys me, but for some reason "Dragon Ball Z" doesn't.
Agreed. I'm always slightly triggered when people refer to it/all of Dragonball as "DeeBeeZee".

EDIT- Also this is the first time I've seen my OMG CRAZY REG status. Neat.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Cipher » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:41 am

Since his introduction, Zenou had always been a little "I'll send you to the corn field" to me.

Came across this post on Reddit (credit: SonLuke) that has really gotten me on board with his character/some of the things Super is adding to the overall story:
... I had EXACTLY the same thought "If he just doesn't recognize that something really messy is happening - after 3 or 4 Universes have been destroyed and all the gods have been killed - Then.... WHAT exactly is this guy doing all the time!?"
After a lot of thinking, I've now my very own theory. It's pretty clear the he has a very naive and childish appearance/behaviour. So maybe Zeno is just not thinking like we are doing. Not worrying about things. And he doesn't have a real job. Because..... he IS kind of a child! Even if he's a very old child ;). Maybe you can just describe him like "forever child".
Look close at what we've seen from him... not only his appearance is like that -> he has IN FACT an extremely childlike mind, where "worries" are obviously not existing (at least not in that form as we know them). Because he just can't imagine "the bad" in the world (or the universe), since he has never had direct contact to it and has never seen or experienced it.. That's maybe why he just said "he looks annoying", when he saw Zamasu. Not "What? Why has he done that" or "That fucking crazy murderer". Just "he looks annoying". Like a child.
He's a little bit like Goku, before Bulma met him and showed him the whole wide world. And still Goku has some of that attributes within himself... Maybe that's the reason why Zeno liked him that much.
That totally doesn't match the picture of an allmighty god, like we know it in all big cultures and religions. There god is usually always an extremely wise entity which controls a lot (or everything), has rules for his creations, punishes sins and has a big masterplan for everyone and all things which are happening.
But... Maybe the portraiting of Zeno is not only like it is, because of an humoristic component. Maybe there's A LOT more behind that. Maybe he just NEEDS to be like that, because these properties are the source/beginning of every existence: Innocent & small & weak (Zeno seems weak at least in his appearance) & maybe a little bit clumsy.
So that all-god just cannot be a calculating, thoughtful and judgemental being. That's a very philosophical analysis.. maybe too much for Dragon Ball... but it would make terrifying much sense and answer a lot of open and unclear questions of that arc.
Because if you follow that thought, you could maybe even explain why not only him but his incredible strong guardians (like Whis father) did not react at all to Zamasu. We know that his guardians are in fact the physically strongest beeings across all Universes. But still they are not doing anything. But I'm pretty sure that there is no way, that THEY don't know what's going on in all Universes. Thing is: This is simply not what they are there for. Their one and only job is to keep Zeno out of all the bad things that are happening. They protect him. A little bit like parents (or even a whole family) that cares about a child.
They do not interfere with the universes by themself, even if they know that things are going really bad. Because that's simply not their job. That's what the gods and angels of the single univeres are there for. Zenos guardians just have to protect him and keep him actively out of everything AT ALL COSTS.. and maybe also they have to entertain him. That's their purpose. And that's why they are stronger than everybody else. Nobody can ever harm them and so nobody can ever reach or even touch Zeno, without their explicit grant.
He's just the one who should never be affected by something bad... so he, with his clean, simple and naive mind is always the last fallback if things in a Universe (or even all Universes) are really really messed up -> to an unrepairable grade. His innocent mind is always the key to do a total reboot, if really necessary.
Why does the Dragon Ball world exist? For the whimsy and amusement of a creative, lonesome child.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by HeroR » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:15 am

kinisking wrote:I've given Trunks shit for being a Gary Sue this arc but I really like how he's gotten more tactical. It feels like a natural progression of his character. I can totally believe he's gotten smarter at fighting now that he's older and more experienced.
Doctor. wrote:Why is everyone claiming that the arc could have ended if Goku had brought the seal?

First off, even if Goku HAD the seal, there's no way he could have given it to Trunks. He couldn't teleport and both him and Vegeta were getting outmatched by Black. Plus, Goku was the one who knew the technique, so there'd be no reason for him to give the seal to anyone else before the battle started.

Second, even if Zamasu was properly sealed, Black could very easily break the jar open.
Speaking of this, why did they even make Goku forget the seal? Why couldn't they have just said that it set on fire when Black shot a ki blast at the time machine?
What you should be asking is why Roshi never gave Goku the seal despite Goku standing there talking to him for several minutes. Also, the word Mary/Gary Sue is thrown around too willy-nilly. Even with all Trunks' power-up, he wouldn't be classified as a Gary Sue, at least no more than Gohan, or any of the other hybrids for that matter.
Lord Beerus wrote:Why do no Dragon Ball characters have last names? It doesn't bug me, and I know the main scheme behind the naming of characters is puns, shits and giggles, but it would nice to have a Dragon Ball character that has an actual forename and surname. Instead of just one or the other.
I think it was said in the Buu Saga that last names just kind of fell out of style. Like Videl notes how odd it is that Gohan has a surname.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by nickzambuto » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:46 am

Cipher wrote:Since his introduction, Zenou had always been a little "I'll send you to the corn field" to me.

Came across this post on Reddit (credit: SonLuke) that has really gotten me on board with his character/some of the things Super is adding to the overall story:
... I had EXACTLY the same thought "If he just doesn't recognize that something really messy is happening - after 3 or 4 Universes have been destroyed and all the gods have been killed - Then.... WHAT exactly is this guy doing all the time!?"
After a lot of thinking, I've now my very own theory. It's pretty clear the he has a very naive and childish appearance/behaviour. So maybe Zeno is just not thinking like we are doing. Not worrying about things. And he doesn't have a real job. Because..... he IS kind of a child! Even if he's a very old child ;). Maybe you can just describe him like "forever child".
Look close at what we've seen from him... not only his appearance is like that -> he has IN FACT an extremely childlike mind, where "worries" are obviously not existing (at least not in that form as we know them). Because he just can't imagine "the bad" in the world (or the universe), since he has never had direct contact to it and has never seen or experienced it.. That's maybe why he just said "he looks annoying", when he saw Zamasu. Not "What? Why has he done that" or "That fucking crazy murderer". Just "he looks annoying". Like a child.
He's a little bit like Goku, before Bulma met him and showed him the whole wide world. And still Goku has some of that attributes within himself... Maybe that's the reason why Zeno liked him that much.
That totally doesn't match the picture of an allmighty god, like we know it in all big cultures and religions. There god is usually always an extremely wise entity which controls a lot (or everything), has rules for his creations, punishes sins and has a big masterplan for everyone and all things which are happening.
But... Maybe the portraiting of Zeno is not only like it is, because of an humoristic component. Maybe there's A LOT more behind that. Maybe he just NEEDS to be like that, because these properties are the source/beginning of every existence: Innocent & small & weak (Zeno seems weak at least in his appearance) & maybe a little bit clumsy.
So that all-god just cannot be a calculating, thoughtful and judgemental being. That's a very philosophical analysis.. maybe too much for Dragon Ball... but it would make terrifying much sense and answer a lot of open and unclear questions of that arc.
Because if you follow that thought, you could maybe even explain why not only him but his incredible strong guardians (like Whis father) did not react at all to Zamasu. We know that his guardians are in fact the physically strongest beeings across all Universes. But still they are not doing anything. But I'm pretty sure that there is no way, that THEY don't know what's going on in all Universes. Thing is: This is simply not what they are there for. Their one and only job is to keep Zeno out of all the bad things that are happening. They protect him. A little bit like parents (or even a whole family) that cares about a child.
They do not interfere with the universes by themself, even if they know that things are going really bad. Because that's simply not their job. That's what the gods and angels of the single univeres are there for. Zenos guardians just have to protect him and keep him actively out of everything AT ALL COSTS.. and maybe also they have to entertain him. That's their purpose. And that's why they are stronger than everybody else. Nobody can ever harm them and so nobody can ever reach or even touch Zeno, without their explicit grant.
He's just the one who should never be affected by something bad... so he, with his clean, simple and naive mind is always the last fallback if things in a Universe (or even all Universes) are really really messed up -> to an unrepairable grade. His innocent mind is always the key to do a total reboot, if really necessary.
Why does the Dragon Ball world exist? For the whimsy and amusement of a creative, lonesome child.
Holy canoles.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by Kunzait_83 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:37 pm

Cipher wrote:Why does the Dragon Ball world exist? For the whimsy and amusement of a creative, lonesome child.
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Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:53 pm

What was the point of retconning Goku origins and Trunks's hair color it was pointless and stupid, I had to get that off my chest.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:02 pm

SaiyanGod117 wrote:What was the point of retconning Goku origins and Trunks's hair color it was pointless and stupid, I had to get that off my chest.
Which retcon to his origins? The first or the second?
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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:33 pm

Gohan was written as a Super Saiyan for the entire BoG movie, right?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by nickzambuto » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:40 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
SaiyanGod117 wrote:What was the point of retconning Goku origins and Trunks's hair color it was pointless and stupid, I had to get that off my chest.
Which retcon to his origins? The first or the second?
Or the third?

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:41 pm

nickzambuto wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
SaiyanGod117 wrote:What was the point of retconning Goku origins and Trunks's hair color it was pointless and stupid, I had to get that off my chest.
Which retcon to his origins? The first or the second?
Or the third?
There's a third?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by nickzambuto » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:44 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
nickzambuto wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote: Which retcon to his origins? The first or the second?
Or the third?
There's a third?
I'm thinking:

1. Raditz shows up and tells him he's an alien, last of the greatest warriors of the universe who sell planets for profit, homeworld was destroyed by meteors.
2. Turns out the saiyans were ruled by Freeza, planet trading was his organization, and he destroyed Goku's planet.
3. Minus.

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Re: Non-thread-worthy discussions

Post by ekrolo2 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:45 pm

nickzambuto wrote:I'm thinking:

1. Raditz shows up and tells him he's an alien, last of the greatest warriors of the universe who sell planets for profit, homeworld was destroyed by meteors.
2. Turns out the saiyans were ruled by Freeza, planet trading was his organization, and he destroyed Goku's planet.
3. Minus.
Oh right, I usually just use the Freeza one as the default since its the one that's stuck the longest and just forget the various inconsistencies between the Saiyan & Freeza arcs :P
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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