Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

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Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by precita » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:52 pm

It seems to me that no matter how powerful or strong Goku is, he can still be killed by diseases like the heart virus in the Cell arc, or when Frost poisoned him with toxins in Super.

Shouldn't being an all powerful person make your body immune to simple diseases that can kill a normal person? Are we expected to believe Goku can still die from something like the common cold?

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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:57 pm

I don't see why that's a problem, personally at least. Even the great Bruce Lee succumbed to a medical condition, he didn't fall in battle or anything like that.

That and, like they say, 'the bigger they are, the harder they fall'. The stronger any of the characters get, the more likely it is that eventually it's going to be something incredibly mundane that actually does them in, not dying in battle. It's that very thing that Online's backstory about Goku and Vegeta dealing with aging brings up.
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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:17 am

I mean, a good portions of the symptoms of diseases are caused by the collateral damage your body inflicts on itself when fighting the disease. Getting stronger wouldn't do anything to stop that. Nor would it have any effect on chemical reactions caused by poisons or other outside influences that don't care about how much you can lift. Goku's not radically altering the genetic and chemical makeup of his body; he's just getting stronger. He's susceptible to the same things that always affected his health.
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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:23 am

This is one of my biggest issues with the series. In fact, it's the single most annoying thing. Gokuu has no business being stronger than in the Saiyan arc without also have immunity to disease, poison, or special abilities.

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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:32 am

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:This is one of my biggest issues with the series. In fact, it's the single most annoying thing. Gokuu has no business being stronger than in the Saiyan arc without also have immunity to disease, poison, or special abilities.
You want him to be a mary sue?
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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:36 am

Knowing full well that half of the country just ignored high school biology, I suppose it isn't that surprising that this thread is a thing.

Getting stronger has virtually no effect on susceptibility to diseases. The plague killed fat nobles, strongly muscled knights, and starving peasants alike. People of all shapes and sizes got AIDS. Smallpox wiped out millions of robust and athletic Native Americans. Cancer cells would just get "stronger" with the regular ones. Viruses spread throughout the body by taking over cells.

Diseases aren't something you overcome by raising your HP stat. If Goku were to fuse with Buu or something, then sure. But short of rewriting his DNA, there's nothing he can do about that.
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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:41 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:Knowing full well that half of the country just ignored high school biology, I suppose it isn't that surprising that this thread is a thing.

Getting stronger has virtually no effect on susceptibility to diseases. The plague killed fat nobles, strongly muscled knights, and starving peasants alike. People of all shapes and sizes got AIDS. Smallpox wiped out millions of robust and athletic Native Americans. Cancer cells would just get "stronger" with the regular ones. Viruses spread throughout the body by taking over cells.

Diseases aren't something you overcome by raising your HP stat. If Goku were to fuse with Buu or something, then sure. But short of rewriting his DNA, there's nothing he can do about that.
Ki. Make him do it with Ki.

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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:45 am

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Knowing full well that half of the country just ignored high school biology, I suppose it isn't that surprising that this thread is a thing.

Getting stronger has virtually no effect on susceptibility to diseases. The plague killed fat nobles, strongly muscled knights, and starving peasants alike. People of all shapes and sizes got AIDS. Smallpox wiped out millions of robust and athletic Native Americans. Cancer cells would just get "stronger" with the regular ones. Viruses spread throughout the body by taking over cells.

Diseases aren't something you overcome by raising your HP stat. If Goku were to fuse with Buu or something, then sure. But short of rewriting his DNA, there's nothing he can do about that.
Ki. Make him do it with Ki.
Sure, we can do that. Let's let him bring people back to life with Ki too. And let's give him Super Ki breath that can turn back time. And make him immortal, because why not. Let's basically turn Goku into Silver Age Superman, because fuck having a weakness. That's boring. Mary Sue powers FTW.
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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:54 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote: Sure, we can do that. Let's let him bring people back to life with Ki too. And let's give him Super Ki breath that can turn back time. And make him immortal, because why not. Let's basically turn Goku into Silver Age Superman, because fuck having a weakness. That's boring. Mary Sue powers FTW.
We're far beyond the point where Gokuu can have "weaknesses". He can still lose, but at his current level, he should only lose to stronger martial artists and nothing else.

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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:02 am

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote: Sure, we can do that. Let's let him bring people back to life with Ki too. And let's give him Super Ki breath that can turn back time. And make him immortal, because why not. Let's basically turn Goku into Silver Age Superman, because fuck having a weakness. That's boring. Mary Sue powers FTW.
We're far beyond the point where Gokuu can have "weaknesses". He can still lose, but at his current level, he should only lose to stronger martial artists and nothing else.
Why?
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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by Nejishiki » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:04 am

I think the message Kamiccolo9 is providing is passing you by somehow and that's falling to diseases has nothing to do with one's level of physical or ki resistance. Goku can still catch a cold, for example. :)

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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:09 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote: Why?
If Frost's poison could have actually offed Gokuu, than me, you and my grandmother are all stronger than him. Earth just needs to send one kamikaze dude with a poison bomb or something to Capsule Corp. and the threats of Beerus and Black are solved. The only point to any training by Gokuu is to play with his friends instead of getting a job.

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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:15 am

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote: Why?
If Frost's poison could have actually offed Gokuu, than me, you and my grandmother are all stronger than him. Earth just needs to send one kamikaze dude with a poison bomb or something to Capsule Corp. and the threats of Beerus and Black are solved. The only point to any training by Gokuu is to play with his friends instead of getting a job.
This is the kind of ridiculousness that comes from over-emphasizing power levels.

"Stronger" has no say in this.

Freeza was able to kill Vegeta, despite Vegeta being stronger, by blowing up the planet, because Freeza could survive in space, and Vegeta couldn't. By being living, breathing mammals, Saiyans are vulnerable to things that other species may not be.

Should Goku be able to go on without food either? I mean, he's got Ki, right? Why should he need to eat?
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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:18 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Freeza was able to kill Vegeta, despite Vegeta being stronger, by blowing up the planet, because Freeza could survive in space, and Vegeta couldn't. By being living, breathing mammals, Saiyans are vulnerable to things that other species may not be.
Yeah, and Freeza doing that devalues all training since the Saiyan Saga.

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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:18 am

I like that Gokuu is susceptible to illness and disease. It leaves room for a little dose of unfulfilled feelings and variable outcomes.
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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:20 am

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Freeza was able to kill Vegeta, despite Vegeta being stronger, by blowing up the planet, because Freeza could survive in space, and Vegeta couldn't. By being living, breathing mammals, Saiyans are vulnerable to things that other species may not be.
Yeah, and Freeza doing that devalues all training since the Saiyan Saga.
Well sure, I guess so, if you believe that you can punch cancer into submission.

Are we arguing that it makes sense to get strong enough to not have to breathe now?
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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:23 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Are we arguing that it makes sense to get strong enough to not have to breathe now?
Ultimately, it's either that or all of Dragonball except the Tenkaichi is pointless.

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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:27 am

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Are we arguing that it makes sense to get strong enough to not have to breathe now?
Ultimately, it's either that or all of Dragonball except the Tenkaichi is pointless.
Neat. I guess you've just wasted all of your time on here talking about everything that happens after Trunks arrives, right?

I guess that characters shouldn't get tired either, since fatigue is caused by acidic buildup in muscles. They should be strong enough to not even feel that, I guess. Kaio-Ken makes no sense!
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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:32 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:

Neat. I guess you've just wasted all of your time on here talking about everything that happens after Trunks arrives, right?

I guess that characters shouldn't get tired either, since fatigue is caused by acidic buildup in muscles. They should be strong enough to not even feel that, I guess. Kaio-Ken makes no sense!
They get fatigued when they're out of Ki.

Anyway, this disease thing always bothered me, but now I realize that Dragonball is only logical if all the characters are deeply stupid.

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Re: Why can heart virus, poision and diseases still kill Goku?

Post by kei17 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:34 am

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Plan to Eradicate the (Super) Saiyans at this point, in which Dr. Raichi tried to kill the Z warriors with poisonous gas.
RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:Anyway, this disease thing always bothered me, but now I realize that Dragonball is only logical if all the characters are deeply stupid.
Have you read/watched a different series or forgotten everything about people believing what Mr. Satan says without questioning?
Last edited by kei17 on Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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