Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:16 pm

Avery wrote: Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood has became my second favourite battle shounen. It has a powerful and emotional story, compelling characters with unique personalities and different goals, wonderful direction and action scenes, God-tier soundtrack and proper pacing despite starting off rather slow. It's the single anime I'd recommend to whovere wants a "perfect" battle shounen. Also, a lot of the emotional scenes heavily depend on the voice acting, so I recommend watching it subbed since the dubbed version doesn't quite live up to the original. (Also, make sure it's Brotherhood and not just FMA)
I guess there's always that one series that everyone loves but doesn't do anything for you - it's FMA for me. I found all the characters and settings and action and plots quite boring. I don't know how many emotional scenes there were supposed to be, cause it never got more than a "eh" out of me. My nomination for perfect battle manga is Hunter x Hunter. except the hiatus's

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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:26 pm

Does Fullmetal Alchemist count as battle shounen? I know it's a shounen, but I always view battle shounen anime that mainly focuses on fighting. FMA seems like it focuses more on deeper storytelling than fighting.
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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by Deathbringer » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:48 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:Does Fullmetal Alchemist count as battle shounen? I know it's a shounen, but I always view battle shounen anime that mainly focuses on fighting. FMA seems like it focuses more on deeper storytelling than fighting.
I was just about to write a post like that, when I think battle shonen I usually think of the series where you can see some sort of inspiration from DB, like One Piece or Naruto. If Fullmetal Alchemist counts as battle manga then so would things like Tokyo Ghoul, Parasyte and Hellsing (even though these are all Seinen series)

On a side note about this thread in general I think it would be more fair to compare each series based on the original manga versions because it's a more level playing field that way. Yes the animation studios make the fight scenes way better than looking at still drawings (and there are also times where the animation studios don't do those scenes justice) but don't let that distract you from comparing the way the artists drew those scenes in their respective manga series

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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by sintzu » Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:01 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:What other "battle shonen" is there out there? In the last year or so I really got into Attack on Titan and like Yu Yu Hakusho, so maybe that's the genre that I'm into. I'm interested in checking others out.
Hunter X Hunter is written by Yu Yu Hakusho's author so you'll probably like it.

Naruto/Shippuden is a great show and my 2nd favorite after Z.

One Piece is also a good show but it's a bit long.
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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:15 pm

FMA would be one of my favorite Shounen series, but I don't view it as battle Shounen. I also love the Guyver, but it's a Seinen manga now and the 2005 TV anime series seem to air on a late night TV time slot. For other good battle shonen there is Flame of Recca, s-CRY-ed and My Hero Academia. Those are pretty good and I think DB fans would enjoy them.
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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:36 pm

FMA is a must watch if you like shonen genre so I would recommend it. It is my favorite. Also Naruto while a little bit long is still worth watching. Hunter X Hunter, Rurouni Kenshin, Boku No Hero Academia are good too.

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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:16 pm

I certainly agree with a good deal of Cipher's response regarding what genre children's media can and cannot do for adults, and Dragon Ball's not really trying, while to its peril in some aspects, is also a plus for me in that regard.

They are not something I tend to seek out, no. I enjoyed Yu Yu Hakusho and G Gundam (the only one that held my attention at the time as a non-Gundam fan) back on Toonami, but never pursued them or Gundum beyond finding out how they ended. Naruto's original premise of a shunned dorky ninja who swore to show up his detractors was kind of neat- as was his bringing that perspective to bear against angry ole' Sasuke- until the inevitability of his consciously controlling Kurama's power demolished the underdog story and with it any interest I had (I can imagine Dragon Ball fans having a similar falling out over its run). The only one I have deliberately pursued recently is David Production's Jojo adaptations, to see if that old thing that you could not seem to have an online anime discussion without mentioning was all that. As of Phantom Blood, a good chunk of Battle Tendency, and Stardust Crusaders (Mayhaps I will go back to Diamond before I'm hopelessly behind), it surely was. To my surprise, though, the series' strong, oh-so-deliberate sense of its own innate absurdity makes for a humorous parallel to Dragon Ball, whose author created a similarly functionally-screwball world not as an expression of style, but because that was the only way he knew the write. By accident, if you will.
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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:32 pm

My post here was deleted but I said I like stuff like One Piece, Kenshin, Saint Seiya, Yu Yu Hakusho, Hunter X Hunter, One Punch Man, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, etc. whereas I don't so much like Naruto, Bleach, Inuyasha, Hitman Reborn, or series like that.
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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by darkerspare » Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:49 pm

I disagree with FMA being thrown around as a "battle shonen". It may be a shonen technically but it far, far transcends the "battle shonen" genre in its emotional and intellectual depth.

Rurouni Kenshin has battle shonen elements but it also stretches the boundaries of what shonen can be; especially the OVAs which are not shonen at all.

As far as the OP, DB is the only pure "battle shonen" I''ve been able to get into to this degree.

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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by Cipher » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:14 pm

darkerspare wrote:I disagree with FMA being thrown around as a "battle shonen". It may be a shonen technically but it far, far transcends the "battle shonen" genre in its emotional and intellectual depth.
I don't think those necessarily disqualify it from fitting into whatever genre we're talking about here, even if they're a rarity

FMA's a little hard to place -- it's not as formulaic nor as focused on competitive combat as most things discussed here. At the same time, it definitely promises its audience it's going to include a certain amount of superpowered battling as a means of resolving conflict, and in execution borrows a number of tropes from "battle shonen" series to come before it.

Maybe it's not worth diving further than "fantasy/action-adventure," but that ignores how clear some of its inspiration is. I don't think it would have come out the same were it produced anywhere but Japan, within its milieu of action shonen manga, and within that I think especially its "battles," and the expectation that they exist, would be considerably different.

Will respond to other comments if/when I work up enough initiative to write a page on my thoughts on hard genre fiction/why I like Dragon Ball again.

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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Tue Aug 16, 2016 1:06 pm

MozillaVulpix wrote:I've watched and read quite a bit of Shonen, although I feel like there's a lot more I need to personally experience and not just research about. And I honestly think Dragon Ball still holds up.

Obviously, it's more generic. One Piece has pirates, Naruto has ninjas, Fairy Tail has wizards, My Hero Academia has superheroes, Yu Yu Hakusho has spirits and demons, even Saint Seiya has mythology, whereas Dragon Ball is just basic martial arts and aliens. There's no real complicated mana system like Nen in HunterXHunter. Characters use ki and can do whatever they want with it. The Super Saiyan forms are just transformations, and there's no long explanation as to how they work in terms of Saiyan biology. But I don't mind that. Sometimes these series try so hard to make themselves stand out, they become very hard to understand. Dragon Ball always keeps it simple, and it makes it very accessible. Dragon Ball came before most of these series, and it never tried to compete with these series. I think that worked to its advantage.

The only thing I can agree other shonen series do better than Dragon Ball is handle their supporting cast. They often care much more about keeping a consistent cast of characters that can always contribute to the story, as opposed to Dragon Ball often introducing new characters to replace the old, outdated ones with very little fanfare. Yu Yu Hakusho has probably been my favourite in terms of cast usage. It also handled a "major character decides they want to stop fighting and live a normal life" subplot miles better than Dragon Ball ever did.

But I think comparing them objectively is like...a Star Wars vs Star Trek sort of debate. They may be part of the same genre, but they have different approaches to storytelling, and one isn't inherently better than the other.
This is a great post. :clap:

For the most part, the shonen genre has unique themes and doesn't really hold itself to easy comparisons: Jojo has Stands, Naruto has Ninjas, One Piece has pirates, and Dragon Ball has aliens. Of course, DB has been acclaimed to be an influence on many mangas: One Piece, Gintama, Fairy Tale, etc, so I guess a comparison wouldn't really help in this case.

The only work that I think could be most directly compared with DB is Sailor Moon. And that's only because both premiered in the early 90s, both feature extraterrestrial/god combo beings (Goku - Monkey King, Sailor Moon - Princess Kagura), both involve a being from the future (Trunks, Chibiusa), and both have Toru Furya as a lame supporting character (Yamcha, Tuxedo Mask) :P
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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:35 pm

(Looks like the big text I spent so much time to write was deleted due to forum problems. Fortunately by some random reason I decided to save it back then, so here it goes again...)

We already had some thread like this, haven't we?!

First I want to make something clear: There's not other frachise I love as much as Dragon Ball and I'm not only talking about anime/manga industry, but any media out there.
With that said, I will now answer to your questions:

1) Do you like other battle shonen?

I love shonen!
95% of the animes I watch are shonen. It's my favourite genre and undoubtedly what made and keeps making the anime/manga industry grow up.
I can't say how much shonens I saw because it was too many, but for you to have an idea: Dragon Ball, Gintama, HunterxHunter, Fullmetal Alchemist, Naruto, Katekyo Hitman Reborn, One Piece, Yu Yu Hakusho, Shingeki no Kyojin, Soul eater, Rurouni Kenshin, Saint Seiya, Bleach, Fairy tail, Law of Ueki, Shaman King are some shonens I saw...

From all of that list, the only ones that I love almost as much as Dragon Ball is Gintama and HunterxHunter.
Being more specific my top 3 is:
1) Dragon Ball
2) Gintama
3) HunterxHunter

2) How they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Gintama

It's an animal of it's own. It's hard to compare it to Dragon ball because how different they are.
Gintama doesn't have super powers or a life force energy like Ki, Nen, Chakra, Haki etc...

It doesn't also have a linear story. It's a masterpiece that combines comedy with serious stuff in a brilliant way, that no other person besides Hideaki Sorachi, managed to do it successfully until now.

Despite not having super powers, the fights choreography are mind blowing.
The funniest thing about Gintama is that when it gets serious, it makes almost all other serious battle shonens, with the exception of Dragon ball and HunterxHunter, pale in
comparison.

It has been perfectly adapted by Sunrise, with one of the best voice actors cast I ever saw.

When talking about comedy, Gintama is the number one by far.
Sorachi's hardcore humor trashes Toriyama's poop jokes and it's the reason why other shows have some much trouble to make laugh now.

HunterxHunter

This one is much easier to compare to Dragon Ball. Another masterpiece, this time made by Yoshihiro Togashi also creator of Yu Yu Hakusho.
While Dragon Ball trashes Yu Yu Hakusho in every way possible, with HunterxHunter is not exactly like that.

Speaking dispassionately, HunterxHunter is what I can call the perfect show that does everything right:

- Mind blowing writting.
- Amazing characters, both male and female.
- Nen is the most interesting power system.
- Great figths.
- Unique abilities for everyone.
- Tries its best to avoid clichés.
- Uses all of its characters.
- Most characters think logically and the reason for their actions always make sense from their point of view.
- The always tense atmosphere makes you feel anyone can die (and not being brought back).

Talking about the anime, It had an amazing adaptation by Madhouse. it's not perfect like the fanboys claim about, but it's close to that.
Hunter Exam arc will always be a offense to the manga and the 99 anime adaptation, because of the childish atmosphere, censorship, lack of Gon/Kite meeting flashback, Shonen-ish Gon and adorable out of character Killua. Fortunately, after that Madhouse put their shit together and managed to do a much better adaptation than the 99 version.
There are some flaws here and there, but nothing much. Overall is an amazing production that I hope to come back when there's enough manga material to go on.

In comparison, Dragon Ball has a lot of problems with:

- Female characters. The only one that still stands out is Bulma. HunterxHunter has Biscuit, Neferpitou, Komugi, Melody and Machi.
- Consequences. The Dragon Balls are a curse that fix almost everything. In Super, this keeps being a thing with Kibitoshin diffusion (wasn't the potara fusion supposed to last
forever?!) and I'm really afraid of what wish they could ask using the Super Dragon Balls. Stuff like "Fix FT Trunks timeline and revive everyone." it's not impossible to
happen.
- Use of its characters. Even though this is more notable in Super and GT, than ever was in the original manga.

Honestly I never had much problems with Dragon Ball story, like so many people bitch about. I always loved it! In particular how we can see the cast growing up, get new character designs and become parents, thanks to all the time skips. That makes it unique from all the rest and it's something that Naruto is desperately trying to rip off.

Dragon Ball is the only anime/manga I watched where I can follow the main character entire life, since he was a kid until he becomes a grandfather. I love that.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by swimtrunks » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:54 am

FortuneSSJ wrote: Honestly I never had much problems with Dragon Ball story, like so many people bitch about. I always loved it! In particular how we can see the cast growing up, get new character designs and become parents, thanks to all the time skips. That makes it unique from all the rest and it's something that Naruto is desperately trying to rip off.

Dragon Ball is the only anime/manga I watched where I can follow the main character entire life, since he was a kid until he becomes a grandfather. I love that.
You make it sound as if DBZ is pulling off the time skips/next generation thing well or something. Naruto/Boruto has the potential to do it better than DBZ. It's not finished yet so we'll see how it goes. And I wouldn't call inspiration a desperate rip off. The creator of Naruto has already stated many times how inspired he is by Dragon Ball.

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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by sintzu » Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:16 am

swimtrunks wrote:Naruto/Boruto has the potential to do it better than DBZ.
DB hasn't even done the next generation type of stories and probably never will.
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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by Bagginses » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:19 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:We already had some thread like this, haven't we?!
Such as?
sintzu wrote:
swimtrunks wrote:Naruto/Boruto has the potential to do it better than DBZ.
What's Boruto? :?:

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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by VejituhTheWarriorGuy » Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:56 pm

Bullza wrote:
One Piece is always finding ways to keep its characters relevant which is something DB and especially Super struggle with
Which has been backfiring on the series for a while and why it's not as good as it was before the time skip.

It's also what ruined Bleach.
The ones that are still on Zou are going to Wano to prepare to fight Kaido and to get the Road Poneglyph that he has so they are still relevant. It's not like Yamcha or the others are doing anything important like Zoro, Robin, Law and Franky are doing now.
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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by Deathbringer » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:07 pm

There are a few elements of Dragon Ball (specifically the manga) that I would say is done better in DB than in most manga series, timeskips has to be one of them. In a lot of manga they usually have one timeskip at the very end to show what the characters lives are like after all is said and done, usually shows the future children of the protagonist. However, Dragon Ball has quite a few time skips throughout the whole series, we see grown up Goku and Kuririn, we see their children but they're introduced as regular cast members rather than a bonus look at their future lives.

Another element of Dragon Ball which still compares favourably with many other manga series has to be the artstyle and character designs, they're some of the most iconic character designs in all of manga and anime.

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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by Theophrastus » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:08 pm

Bagginses wrote:What's Boruto? :?:
A film, and now ongoing monthly manga sequel to Naruto, running in Weekly Shonen Jump. Supervised by Kishimoto, but not actually scripted or drawn by him.

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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by MCDaveG » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:32 pm

Yeah! Saint Seiya, Yu Yu Hakusho, Hokuto no Ken and Jojo's Bizzare Adventure. They are my favorite mainstays.
I did watch One Piece, but outside of being curious about where is the story heading and some intriguing plot points, it didn't caught me that much and the humor was weak for most the time.
Also, I found Naruto enjoyable and interesting, but I left the series during the Shippuden as it started to be boring. Bleach was sh///y stuff for me from the get go.

And yeah, One Punch Man is my favorite modern shonen nowadays!
I don't know if Gintama is shonen or more comedy? Because that's my most favorite series besides Dragon Ball and Saint Seiya.
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Re: Do you like other battle shounen, and how do you feel they stack up to Dragon Ball?

Post by Bullza » Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:02 pm

VejituhTheWarriorGuy wrote:
Bullza wrote:
One Piece is always finding ways to keep its characters relevant which is something DB and especially Super struggle with
Which has been backfiring on the series for a while and why it's not as good as it was before the time skip.

It's also what ruined Bleach.
The ones that are still on Zou are going to Wano to prepare to fight Kaido and to get the Road Poneglyph that he has so they are still relevant. It's not like Yamcha or the others are doing anything important like Zoro, Robin, Law and Franky are doing now.
And because Toriyama isn't trying to make everyone important the series hasn't become a disjointed mess. All that happens in One Piece these days is the characters get split up and a bunch of them will disappear for ages because Oda can't think of how to keep them all active along with all the new characters so half of them get sent along out the way.

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