This joke has become a franchise now

[Cipher]

Isn't that kind of incredible?

[Kanassa]

Not really. Things like Pokemon became a franchise. Things like Twilight got movies. Life is weird.

[Anime Kitten]

Mr. Cipher, you are one clever... Giru, I guess. Nice one with the thread name.

Anyway, incredible things happen all the time. Like Dragon Ball Super Episode 56.

[Kanassa]

Mr. Cipher, you are one clever... Giru, I guess. Nice one with the thread name.

Meh, I offer a sarcastic clap. It's a usual fourm tactic.

[Cipher]

This thread was intended to be one-third satire, one-third genuine appreciation of the fact that a single author's amazingly well-crafted, light-hearted joke manga can become an international phenomenon lasting more than thirty years, and one-third a reminder, as we all argue about the franchise's greater presentation or the story's internal logic (which, to an extent, is fair), of the kind of good-natured fluff Dragon Ball -- along with most of Toriyama's work -- has always been.

[Makaioshin]

I just wanted to pop in and say I enjoyed this thread parody more than the original. You are like the Weird Al of forum posts. Good bit!

[nite_jay]

I feel things shouldn't be taken so seriously. If I don't like a sequel to a show, oh well. I mean, I'll talk about my gripes with it but not have some freakout like EVERYTHING IS RUINED DRAGONBALL IS A JOKE!!!1!!

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Who would have thought that a gag manga would become a phenomenal international hit, life is amazing and weird in unexpected ways

[TheMikado]

This thread was intended to be one-third satire, one-third genuine appreciation of the fact that a single author's amazingly well-crafted, light-hearted joke manga can become an international phenomenon lasting more than thirty years, and one-third a reminder, as we all argue about the franchise's greater presentation or the story's internal logic (which, to an extent, is fair), of the kind of good-natured fluff Dragon Ball -- along with all of Toriyama's work -- has always been.

To be fair, the joke manga never became the success that shonen manga was. If Dragonball had stayed a joke manga you probably would be hearing about it decades later.

[Cipher]

To be fair, the joke manga never became the success that shonen manga was. If Dragonball had stayed a joke manga you probably would be hearing about it decades later.

Yes, it'd definitely be reductive to say it doesn't take itself more seriously as it goes on, and even more reductive to ignore that its greater marketing latched onto this for a good while, even in Japan, and continues to do so more or less to this day. There's a particular pleasure, too, in seeing the characters age realistically and the situations grow more dire, and being able to become relatively invested in them beyond the bird's-eye view granted to the reader in a pure comedy series.

That said, I think it's best read and watched never forgetting that this is the same artist who had just finished Dr. Slump,* both for the ways it aligns with and subverts the expectations that may bring.

*And it's equally reductive to say Dr. Slump is purely a comedy series, when many of the imaginative adventure elements and constantly increasing scales for cast and scope that come to bear on Dragon Ball are very much present.

[Zephyr]

This feels like the most appropriate possible response to the other thread.

[TheMikado]

I think that says more about the writer than its original concept about its popularity and staying power.

The other topic was basically expressing that the series is no longer solid and serious contender in the shonen market. This topic seems to imply that we should be amazed that a joke manga has this type of longevity. The thing is Dragonball the joke series failed to launch in the US twice. While the shonen aspect took off. The vast majority of Dragonbsll fans knew the series first as a semi serious shonen, so I can see their concern when some of that is stripped away. It's the same issue Z fans took with the first arc of GT. I can't blame people for wanting more of what they were exposed to. The two manga don't even share the and themes just characters and plot devices.

I certainly understand the origins but we don't belittle people who complain about airbags in cars by comparing them to horse drawn carriages.

[Cipher]

The other topic was basically expressing that the series is no longer solid and serious contender in the shonen market. This topic seems to imply that we should be amazed that a joke manga has this type of longevity.

In spite of my posts above, that's giving this thread more credit than it's worth, when it was really meant to be a pot shot and a silly Toriyama love-in. There's room for serious critique, and I've been critical of Super myself. Still, everything within reason.

[TheMikado]

The other topic was basically expressing that the series is no longer solid and serious contender in the shonen market. This topic seems to imply that we should be amazed that a joke manga has this type of longevity.

In spite of my posts above, that's giving this thread more credit than it's worth, when it was really meant to be a pot shot and a silly Toriyama love-in. There's room for serious critique, and I've been critical of Super myself. Still, everything within reason.

Apologies on messing up the fun, pot shot and love away!

[sintzu]

Greatness from small beginnings.

The same thing happened with comics, Batman and Superman for example started out as small kids entertainment but now they're multi billion dollar franchises.

[MozillaVulpix]

Damn, that title's good. (In context. If someone finds this thread years later, it won't make any sense.)

I still can't fathom that Akira Toriyama literally created a sub-genre almost by accident.

[Cipher]

I still can't fathom that Akira Toriyama literally created a sub-genre almost by accident.

To be more fair, all he really did was put his anything-goes spin on a series of existing wuxia and fighting-manga tropes (cue up kunzait_83's massive wuxia topic). As far as I know, his editor had requested or suggested that he do a martial arts manga -- something he'd been flirting with in various forms for a while.

He did massively influence the broader field of shonen fighting manga, though. And Dragon Ball's specific ways of interpreting old tropes have become tropes themselves.

I think it's more incredible he managed to come to such a specific visual style for fast-paced, super-human fights -- especially incorporating somewhat realistic martial arts -- considering he had little to no experience doing fighting manga before. (I'm not talking about the general use of blasts, auras, nearly invisible movement, etc., all of which Dragon Ball borrows -- but his specific visual mix of those elements in a manner that led to a recognizably fast-paced Dragon Ball fighting style, to be oft-borrowed and parodied.) And he did this while writing a largely tongue-in-cheek series week to week.

[MozillaVulpix]

I think it's more incredible he managed to come to such a specific visual style for fast-paced, super-human fights -- especially incorporating somewhat realistic martial arts -- considering he had little to no experience doing fighting manga before. (I'm not talking about the general use of blasts, auras, nearly invisible movement, etc., all of which Dragon Ball borrows -- but his specific visual mix of those elements in a manner that led to a recognizably fast-paced Dragon Ball fighting style, to be oft-borrowed and parodied.) And he did this while writing a largely tongue-in-cheek series week to week.

I don't know who said it; I think it might have been from one of the interviews on this site, but someone said what made DB so unique was that it was an action series written by someone who didn't know how to write action. So he just literally made up his own style on the spot. And it worked.

[Clayton]

This feels like the most appropriate possible response to the other thread.

no, it doesn't. it makes you look like a sanctimonious asshole. not sure what the intention of this thread was (although it makes you wonder), but it certainly doesn't make you look any better. shame on you.

[Cipher]

no, it doesn't. it makes you look like a sanctimonious asshole. not sure what the intention of this thread was (although it makes you wonder), but it certainly doesn't make you look any better. shame on you.