You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

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You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by Lujin_16 » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:39 am

What do you think???

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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by TheMikado » Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:52 am

No, it was arguably wildly successful and an international stand out which had spanned generations and decades and spawned the modern shonen era precisely due in part to that aspect.

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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:20 am

Any problem is not due to the 'high amount' of battles but the small amount of ordinary life scenes. Even then, though, when you're an animated series with a staff sticking so closely to the tone and style of a comic by Toriyama Akira it can be hard to break away and do something new.
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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by MadSaiyantist » Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:12 pm

TheMikado wrote:No, it was arguably wildly successful and an international stand out which had spanned generations and decades and spawned the modern shonen era precisely due in part to that aspect.
He's not deeming Dragon Ball Z a complete failure. Every show has its flaws. Did Dbz have too much fighting?

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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by TheMikado » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:05 pm

MadSaiyantist wrote:
TheMikado wrote:No, it was arguably wildly successful and an international stand out which had spanned generations and decades and spawned the modern shonen era precisely due in part to that aspect.
He's not deeming Dragon Ball Z a complete failure. Every show has its flaws. Did Dbz have too much fighting?
That's not at all what I suggested. What I said is that an aspect that made DBZ successful is it's fights. There's a chance that with reduced fight sequences DBZ may not have been nearly as popular

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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by ChronoTwigger » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:12 pm

Not at all, but failed by creating a power escalation in enemies.
There wasn't any need for Cell or Buu to be thousands times more stronger than each other. What's lacked was some kind of creativity in the whole mechanics.
Cell and Buu could have been strong as Frieza, but with different challenge than "power level" thing.
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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by sintzu » Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:59 pm

I don't think it "failed" at anything but I wish it would've had more character interactions and everyday life scenes.
TheMikado wrote:There's a chance that with reduced fight sequences DBZ may not have been nearly as popular
The anime industry would be very different today if Z wasn't the mega hit that it is.
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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by Kunzait_83 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 4:15 am

Its a martial arts manga/anime. Plot, characterization, high concepts, etc. certainly all matter a great deal; but at the end of the day when all's said and done this is a genre that's fundamentally at its root core about fighting, training, secret techniques, and so forth. Asking that a martial arts series have less of an emphasis on martial arts is like asking a space opera film to have less spaceships or a horror movie to have less scary imagery or a Western to have less horses, dusty towns, and cowboy hats. At a certain point you're just defeating the entire purpose of the whole enterprise.
sintzu wrote:I don't think it "failed" at anything but I wish it would've had more character interactions and everyday life scenes.
JulieYBM wrote:Any problem is not due to the 'high amount' of battles but the small amount of ordinary life scenes.
Super has already done more than its fair share of that type of domestic "day in the life of" material, and its been utterly soul-deadening. More episodes centering on insipid cookouts and shopping trips is as much the antithesis of Dragon Ball as anything else I can think of. This isn't a sitcom.

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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by Friezacooler » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:24 am

sintzu wrote:I don't think it "failed" at anything but I wish it would've had more character interactions and everyday life scenes.
TheMikado wrote:There's a chance that with reduced fight sequences DBZ may not have been nearly as popular
The anime industry would be very different today if Z wasn't the mega hit that it is.

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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:39 am

World building. A balance between fighting and exploring the Dragon World would have been great. The RRA arc is a very good example of it.

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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:46 am

Honestly, yes. I love a large portion of Dragon Ball Z, but show really dropped the ball with the cast by never going into that much depth in the character or backstory department beyond certain cast members and the world building was quite frankly awful. Earth just feels like such a barren wasteland of nothingness in Z.

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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:50 am

Lord Beerus wrote:Honestly, yes. I love a large portion of Dragon Ball Z, but show really dropped the ball with the cast by never going into that much depth in the character or backstory department beyond certain cast members and the world building was quite frankly awful. Earth just feels like such a barren wasteland of nothingness in Z.
It's amazing how its gotten to the point where we have a multiverse with infinite possibilities and yet feels so small and empty at the same time. It doesn't help that their recently introduced alternate universe is just the main one with a few different bells and whistles. Yeah yeah I know they're "sister universes" but Toriyama doesn't obey some omnipotent God that makes up the rules for him, he could've just written them as proper AUs but instead went the lazy route.
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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by Doctor. » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:54 am

ekrolo2 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Honestly, yes. I love a large portion of Dragon Ball Z, but show really dropped the ball with the cast by never going into that much depth in the character or backstory department beyond certain cast members and the world building was quite frankly awful. Earth just feels like such a barren wasteland of nothingness in Z.
It's amazing how its gotten to the point where we have a multiverse with infinite possibilities and yet feels so small and empty at the same time. It doesn't help that their recently introduced alternate universe is just the main one with a few different bells and whistles. Yeah yeah I know they're "sister universes" but Toriyama doesn't obey some omnipotent God that makes up the rules for him, he could've just written them as proper AUs but instead went the lazy route.
I don't think this is the fault of having "too much fighting" though, it's simply Toriyama who doesn't care enough.

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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:04 am

Doctor. wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Honestly, yes. I love a large portion of Dragon Ball Z, but show really dropped the ball with the cast by never going into that much depth in the character or backstory department beyond certain cast members and the world building was quite frankly awful. Earth just feels like such a barren wasteland of nothingness in Z.
It's amazing how its gotten to the point where we have a multiverse with infinite possibilities and yet feels so small and empty at the same time. It doesn't help that their recently introduced alternate universe is just the main one with a few different bells and whistles. Yeah yeah I know they're "sister universes" but Toriyama doesn't obey some omnipotent God that makes up the rules for him, he could've just written them as proper AUs but instead went the lazy route.
I don't think this is the fault of having "too much fighting" though, it's simply Toriyama who doesn't care enough.
I wouldn't say he doesn't care. I just don't think he's willing think outside of the box that much. I mean, by his admission, the FOG TV special, which ranks amongst one of the best stories told in Dragon Ball, is something he would never write. That kind of storytelling is just not his style. Toriyama is the kind of guy who just prefers to play it safe.

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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Sep 24, 2016 10:22 am

Kunzait_83 wrote: Super has already done more than its fair share of that type of domestic "day in the life of" material, and its been utterly soul-deadening. More episodes centering on insipid cookouts and shopping trips is as much the antithesis of Dragon Ball as anything else I can think of. This isn't a sitcom.

Let the simple kung fu manga/anime just be a simple kung fu manga/anime.
Dragon Ball Super is a series built with no time or staff to actually pull off these low-key episodes with any gusto, so I wouldn't say the series is a particularly great example of what one can do outside of the clutches of narrative.
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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by Bansho64 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:17 am

Lord Beerus wrote: I wouldn't say he doesn't care. I just don't think he's willing think outside of the box that much. I mean, by his admission, the FOG TV special, which ranks amongst one of the best stories told in Dragon Ball, is something he would never write. That kind of storytelling is just not his style. Toriyama is the kind of guy who just prefers to play it safe.
That reminds me, does anyone know who wrote the FOG special? Was it a combination of writers or just one person?

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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:30 am

Bansho64 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: I wouldn't say he doesn't care. I just don't think he's willing think outside of the box that much. I mean, by his admission, the FOG TV special, which ranks amongst one of the best stories told in Dragon Ball, is something he would never write. That kind of storytelling is just not his style. Toriyama is the kind of guy who just prefers to play it safe.
That reminds me, does anyone know who wrote the FOG special? Was it a combination of writers or just one person?
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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by Captain Strawberry » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:31 am

The only thing is that I think it dramatizing the opponents power too much imo in the Buu arc
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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by Bansho64 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:27 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Check the main Kanzenshuu website. All of the credits for the franchise are on it.
It doesn't show the writers for that particular special :( Thank you though.

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Re: You think Dragonball Z has failed in some things because of to much fighting action??

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:08 pm

Bansho64 wrote:
JulieYBM wrote: Check the main Kanzenshuu website. All of the credits for the franchise are on it.
It doesn't show the writers for that particular special :( Thank you though.
You mean the first TV special, right? The scenario is by Koyama Takao and Sumisawa Katsuyuki.
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