What happened with the Japanese audio on the Blu-rays?

[TVfan721]

Funimation "cleaned up" the audio for the Japanese version on the Blu Ray's but I don't know if I would call it an improvement. It's sharper, no doubt about that but it makes your ears hurt. It's sharp but it has abit of a "nails on a chalkboard" vibe, it's scratchy. It's actually hard to explain but it's difficult to listen to for long periods of time. What did Funimation do to alter the audio and do you consider it an improvement?

[Bansho64]

It's sharper, no doubt about that but it makes your ears hurt. It's sharp but it has abit of a "nails on a chalkboard" vibe, it's scratchy. It's actually hard to explain but it's difficult to listen to for long periods of time.

I know exactly what you mean. I don't know what exactly they did to it but I honestly wouldn't consider it an improvement. I'd rather take the Japanese Dragon Box audio over it.

[ParkerAL]

Though I don't have enough audio expertise to give a thorough technical explanation, I did work at my college radio station for a year and a half, and my best guess is that Funimation played with the EQ levels to adjust certain frequencies, making everything sound less muffled. (Again, not a technical description).

I had to do a lot of EQ tweaking when working with telephone interviews, for example, to dampen all the buzzing and interference you get from those kinds of recordings. Basically, anything to make it presentable for the airwaves.

It was a rather tricky process, even with digital tools, though frankly I was pretty crappy at it, learning how to use the ProTools software on the job. (Here's a random tutorial for anyone interested). I'm sure professionals can get much better results, without distorting or oversharpening the base audio too much. Whether or not Funimation succeeded with the Blu-ray soundtrack depends on the ear listening, I guess. Personal opinion, and all that.

[Attitudefan]

I believe they boosted the higher end frequencies. There is a range, I believe 4 kHz, that causes the inner ear to react sharply to it causing discomfort.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

It's fine to me. I've never experienced Japanese audio from any other source except for a few broadcast clips, probably it I guess.

Watched like 3hrs of the S3 last week didn't experience any problems was actually surprised it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, (I got it my head from reading comments here and there that the Non Broadcast audio was unhearable) I actually do like how muffled it sounds helps brings the series age out.

[superrayman3]

Watched like 3hrs of the S3 last week didn't experience any problems was actually surprised it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, (I got it my head from reading comments here and there that the Non Broadcast audio was unhearable)

The non-broadcast audio is far from unhearable, unfortunately because Toei decided to use optical as their backup source for audio (instead of using a proper archival media that both retains high audio fidelity and saves massive space) the quality is extremely muffled and hissy in comparison making it somewhat hard to make out some of the things the characters say at times (it's primarily a problem whenever a word involves using the sound the letter S makes, the muffle and hiss tends to bleed into those words more than the others since the S sound is similar in sound to the muffle and hiss making those words harder to make out).

[Metalwario64]

I believe they boosted the higher end frequencies. There is a range, I believe 4 kHz, that causes the inner ear to react sharply to it causing discomfort.

Yeah, I've got quite good hearing (in school, when I was a kid, a teacher did a frequency hearing test in class to explain the damage loud music can cause to kids' ears, and I could hear every pitch, and most kids, who always blared their earphones, couldn't), and the Blu-ray audio is very piercing to my ears, and it's very unpleasant.

Just another reason for me to avoid those sets, despite finally having an HDTV.

[Danfun64]

I know the Season Blu-Rays have the "enhanced" Japanese audio, the Funi Dragon Boxes use the Toei Dragon Box audio without any changes with the possible (not 100% sure) exception of recompression, and the Japanese audio of the Funi Singles and Orange Bricks are pretty much unmodified, sounding only slightly worse than the Dragon Box JP audio...

What about the Level Blu-Ray sets compared with the Season Blu-Rays? Do they also have "enhanced" JP audio? Is the JP audio the same between the two sets? Is the JP audio not enhanced in the Level Blu-Rays, and kept the same for the Season Blu-Rays, but post Level Blu-Ray episodes begin with the "enhancements"?

[superrayman3]

What about the Level Blu-Ray sets compared with the Season Blu-Rays? Do they also have "enhanced" JP audio? Is the JP audio the same between the two sets? Is the JP audio not enhanced in the Level Blu-Rays, and kept the same for the Season Blu-Rays, but post Level Blu-Ray episodes begin with the "enhancements"?

To the best of my knowledge the Level sets use the same audio source as the DBOX (presumably the uncompressed Toei DBOX audio for "higher quality") or the OB's (honestly both audio tracks sound so similar in quality that I honestly can't tell them apart very much if at all)

[Kojiro Sasaki]

This is what happened to the audio:


High frequencies above 5kHz were not only boosted, but new information above 9-10kHz appeared - this means that they used different audio source than Dragon Box.
Check this out: Sample 1 (DBox vs Season)
Guitar on the Season sets does not buzz as much as it does on Dragon Box.

Hell only knows what exactly did they do, but I would say that they just rescanned the optical tracks from photographic film prints with better equipment.
Audio track on the Blu-ray Seasons is definitely better.

[Danfun64]

Out of curiosity, how much of the "new information" comes from 1. Being lossless or 2. Noise added from Funi's film masters being several generations separates from Toei's first gen masters?

[Kojiro Sasaki]

Out of curiosity, how much of the "new information" comes from 1. Being lossless or 2. Noise added from Funi's film masters being several generations separates from Toei's first gen masters?

1. Nothing. 448Kbps for monophonic source with frequency range up to 11-12kHz gives almost lossless audio. For example, 96kHz 16 bit PCM audio with frequency range up to 11kHz requires 466Kbps to be stored lossless (FLAC).
You can make a comparison: Compress the lossless audio with 448Kbps Dolby Digital and see for yourself

2. Optical copying does not add that much of a noise. By the way, how can you know which generation FUNi masters are? You can easily hear thet the "information" is not only noise.
But still - with this source, the most of what you have at 11-12kHz is noise, distortions and harmonics.

[Danfun64]

By the way, how can you know which generation FUNi masters are?

I don't. It's just a guess...

Even so, it probably isn't that close to the first gen masters.

[genjosanzo8]

is it possible that funi's audio are original one but with bad treatment?

Funi's Dragon Ball DVD japanese audio are they better too?

[thomas1up]

is it possible that funi's audio are original one but with bad treatment?

Funi's Dragon Ball DVD japanese audio are they better too?

Definitely not, apart from the fact that FUNi aquired the Dragon Ball license ten years after the series started, by which point the original masters were long gone. I distinctly remember an entire episode in the orange bricks in which the audio was completely muffled, I believe it was around the days of peace before Cell Games.

Also, it's been a while since I've watched the Blue Bricks but I don't remember them sounding any better than the DBOX

[genjosanzo8]

i was wondering about the japanese audio of the first serie only (not z) if funi japanese audio are better than dbox

[Puto]

It's not better, but it's probably not much worse, either.

[genjosanzo8]

ok thanks a lot