Head Canon is DUMB

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ABED
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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by ABED » Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:56 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:
ABED wrote: You're using urban dictionary as proof?
As proof that it's exists in our society and used and understood in a certain way enough to justify people using if? Yes.
It exists, but that doesn't mean it's good.
TekTheNinja wrote:
ABED wrote:
And what does one do when some official body has not declared a canon?
Go on with your life? Does anything have to be explicitly declared as canon? Were Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's original Sherlock Holmes stories not canon even though the term was not used in such contexts during his lifetime (as far as I know?)
I think you missed his entire point. :lolno:
Which was what?
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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:02 pm

ABED wrote:But you can't have your own canon. The fact that you think so, shows that it's a term that leads to confusion.
Head canon isn't the same thing as "personal" canon. Personal canon is just the trivial preferences in favor of or against the contradictory retcons, versus original material. Most people hate the retcons, while the hardcore Toriyama loyalists will accept it as word of god.

While "Head" canon is more of a dismissive term to categorize the rationale given by people who try to connect filler/fan-fic/hyperbole or explain away plot-holes in the official work. Its always still useless subjectivity to actual debates and fact checking. In more benign cases of it is just people presuming things about the characters when they are off screen or between time-skips. "Head canon" is only a problem when these presumptions are used to conflate with/redefine official information (or lack there of) making certain types of character debates pointless. (Like when incorrect characterizations are accepted as expectations based on interpretations from nostalgia or justifying script changes). Though this is my contextualization of the terms of how its generally applied in off-site discussions I'm in.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by Anime Kitten » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:56 pm

ABED wrote:Go on with your life?
What about when people want to have a listing of what they believe is canon? They can go on with their life easily, but that doesn't mean they're not allowed to make what they personally think is or should be canon.
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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by ABED » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:29 pm

Anime Kitten wrote:
ABED wrote:Go on with your life?
What about when people want to have a listing of what they believe is canon? They can go on with their life easily, but that doesn't mean they're not allowed to make what they personally think is or should be canon.
They're allowed to, but that in no way makes it canon of any type. It's just what they would like to see considered canon, though they first need to understand what canon is.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by Anime Kitten » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:32 pm

ABED wrote:They're allowed to, but that in no way makes it canon of any type. It's just what they would like to see considered canon, though they first need to understand what canon is.
Seeing as you understand what headcanon is, and how it relates to canon, what's the issue here?
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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:21 pm

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote: "head-canon" is not in my head-dictionary.

I agree with ABED. It's a nonsense term. It also does nothing. What happens to works not a part of you head-canon? Do you forget they exist? Can't do any more VS battles about it? Burn your DVD's?
Not to sound rude, but that's none of your concern. People can choose to do what they wish. The term "headcanon" is what's in question. To me, I don't care. Not people obviously do and you can't impose your way of enjoying the series on others. As for "headcanon," the term exists, it's out there, it's used in a certain way, and there are those that are sitting here arguing the semantics of the phrase.

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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by Esfír Dedragón » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:37 pm

I don't think head canon is a necessarily bad thing. It's just a way of adding some kind plausible speculation of what things may or may not have happened in the franchise. For better or worse, there is a lot of it given Toriyama's lack of explanation to some semi-incredulous aspects of the story.
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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by RandomGuy96 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:38 pm

This is what this thread sounds like to me:
Image
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by Dbzfan94 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:59 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:This is what this thread sounds like to me
Seriously though

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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by Zephyr » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:10 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:This is what this thread sounds like to me:
Image
It honestly just feels like one poster's sheer inability to understand an absurdly simple and clear oxymoron.

That or relentless trolling.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by ABED » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:26 pm

It honestly just feels like one poster's sheer inability to understand an absurdly simple and clear oxymoron.

That or relentless trolling.
I'm not unable to understand it. I'm saying it's a term that's non-sensical and leads to confusion.

And one of the things that is irritating me about this is that you all are proving me right. I never said you can't make up in your own mind what you would like to have seen happen. It's a term that leads to confusion, and I'm not talking hypothetically either. People on this forum don't understand a straightforward concept like canon and maybe terms like "personal canon" and "headcanon" might have something to do with it. My issue is with the term and term alone. I can see why someone just looking at the title of the thread might think I have something against fans coming up with their own ideas of what they would do with the story or what they would declare as canon if they were in charge. I'm fine with that.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by TekTheNinja » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:17 pm

ABED wrote:
It honestly just feels like one poster's sheer inability to understand an absurdly simple and clear oxymoron.

That or relentless trolling.
I'm not unable to understand it. I'm saying it's a term that's non-sensical and leads to confusion.
No one is confused but you. :roll:
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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by rereboy » Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:57 pm

ABED wrote:
And one of the things that is irritating me about this is that you all are proving me right.
Really? That's what you take from this topic...?

In this topic you have answers with detailed arguments on why it's not dumb, answers telling you that even if it's a dumb term it's still not dumb to use it given that it's an already established term and that you shouldn't have a problem with people using it, and answers implying that it's kind of a ridiculous topic. And what you take from it is that "we are all proving you right"......?

You keep insisting on the confused aspect while forgetting that every term or concept is confusing when we aren't very familiar with it, and while also forgetting that nothing operates at 100% which means that you will always find an exception if you look for it.... Heck, even regarding regular terms like "pride", "courage", "hero", and so on, we will find some discussion and exceptional views on it if we look for it... If that proof that the terms are "confusing"?

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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by ABED » Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:05 pm

No one is confused but you. :roll:
If you can actually show where I'm confused instead of insulting me, that would be most appreciated.
Really? That's what you take from this topic...?
Yes, when there is confusion about what canon is due to ridiculous and unneccessary terms, my point is proven.
You keep insisting on the confused aspect while forgetting that every term or concept is confusing
That's simply not true. Ignorance of a term isn't the same as confusion. Terms like pride can often be confusing because they are now a package deal. People have erroneously lumped together genuine pride with arrogance. Difference of opinion isn't the same as confusion.

Ssenrof, thank you for your post, it was insightful and your points are well made. This is more productive than the use of emoticons and or memes. I'll have to take a while to digest it.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by TekTheNinja » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:16 pm

ABED wrote:Yes, when there is confusion about what canon is due to ridiculous and unnecessary terms, my point is proven.
This isn't a thing. You're entirely making this up. There is NO confusion about this whatsoever. Stop it.
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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by Zephyr » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:39 pm

ABED wrote:It's a term that leads to confusion, and I'm not talking hypothetically either. People on this forum don't understand a straightforward concept like canon and maybe terms like "personal canon" and "headcanon" might have something to do with it.
If the confusion you're speaking of is regarding Dragon Ball's actual official canon, I don't think that the term "headcanon" has anything to do with it. I think the confusion regarding Dragon Ball's actual official canon has more to do with things like there being several clearly incompatible stories, and nobody with any official legal access to the rights of the series actually laying out what "counts" and what doesn't; things like the original author writing, drawing, and expositing (in interviews) things that don't entirely cohere with one another, and, again, nobody coming forth and saying which of these things "count" and which don't.

I doubt the term is causing anyone to believe that those things that they would decree as canon, had they authority, thus actually become the actual canon, by virtue of they themselves "personally" in their "head" laying out a "personal" "canon". The very fact that they're laying out a hypothetical pretend-canon implies that they know that they're not doing anything that has any remote bearing on what actually "counts" in an official capacity to those who have all of the legal rights to the franchise. Otherwise such threads would be asking "What IS canon?"

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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by ABED » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:19 pm

This isn't a thing. You're entirely making this up. There is NO confusion about this whatsoever. Stop it.
Go back and read some of the posts, there's clearly confusion about what canon means. I'm not making this up.
If the confusion you're speaking of is regarding Dragon Ball's actual official canon, I don't think that the term "headcanon" has anything to do with it.
Fair enough, we can reasonably disagree about this, though I do think Adding "head" or "personal" before canon implies that it's a type of canon.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by TheMohawkAndroid » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:25 am

In a series where canon is fluid (potara fusion. Rules etc) I don't see an issue with headcanon. Let fans try to make their own sense of the series. All it does it maximize their enjoyment. Or it can act as a coping mechanism like how I think Gaston climbed that roof and threw Beast off of the rooftop....

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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by Ssenrof » Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:30 am

ABED wrote:
This isn't a thing. You're entirely making this up. There is NO confusion about this whatsoever. Stop it.
Go back and read some of the posts, there's clearly confusion about what canon means. I'm not making this up.
If the confusion you're speaking of is regarding Dragon Ball's actual official canon, I don't think that the term "headcanon" has anything to do with it.
Fair enough, we can reasonably disagree about this, though I do think Adding "head" or "personal" before canon implies that it's a type of canon.
I don't know the etymology of head-cannon but I doubt its origins revolve around someone deciding to create a word that was inherently easy to understand and would allow for maximum contribution to discussion. However, at this point you could argue that the word is so ingrained that it would be more confusing to suddenly change now.

The English language is full of words that require a understanding of contex to make sense. And while arguably confusing it is way too late in the game now.

Gas Giant: A type of planet- not a giant made of gas

Watershed: place where land is split by a river- not a shed made of water, or even a shed at all.

Piecemeal: improving a process through small increments- not a fraction of a meal.

Historiography: a interpretation of events- not a blend of history and geography.

Perhaps Hypothetical Cannon would suite your tastes over Head Cannon?

Imaginery Cannon/False Cannon/make believe cannon?

You can use whatever words you find agreeable, however I think if you start using other words in place of Headcannon you will find that more
People will be confused rather than less.

Conclusion: is head-cannon a silly word- yes. Is the English language full of nonsense words that are still used professionally? Yes!!

Would it be more Confusing to change silly words into words that are more intuitive- most definitely, atleast at the beginning.

Head-cannon is just a fan's personal interpretation of cannon.

Drgaon Ball can be divided two ways.

Events that have officially happened vs events that are implied.

If cannon details the events that explicitly occurred,

Head-cannon details the events that were implied.

Is head-cannon used improperly by fans in order to change confirmed events? Yes, some individuals ignore confirmed events either from ignorance or bias.

Head cannon has no jurisdiction over confirmed events. You cant use head-cannon to argue that Hercule Satan actually defeated Cell- that's inaccurate, and officially disproved by cannon.

You can believe it, but you would be objectively wrong.

You can use head-cannon in order to argue events that haven't been proved or disproved via a lack of evidence.

Head-cannon isn't the changing of official cannon, it's the intepretetion of what what cannon doesn't explain, but implies.

Head-cannon only has degrees of being correct, by default it will never be absolute.

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Re: Head Canon is DUMB

Post by ABED » Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:06 pm

The English language is full of words that require a understanding of contex to make sense. And while arguably confusing it is way too late in the game now.
The difference is that Gas and Giant aren't two conflicting ideas, neither is piecemeal.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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