Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

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Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:10 pm

By 2003 when they began dubbing DBGT, Funimation was already getting around to using the original Japanese scores for their non-DBZ dubs. Even their dub of the original Dragon Ball series kept the original Kikuchi score. With that in mind, what exactly was their mentality for not using the original score Akihito Tokunaga for GT?

I can sort of understand why they continued using replacement score for DBZ, since they probably wanted to maintain as much consistency as possible, but why did they bother doing that with GT?

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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:14 pm

I assume you're familiar with the staunch Faulconer-only section of the fan-base, they were there back then, and they were the mainstream audience. If they wanted GT to succeed, a replacement score couldn't hurt, or so they thought.
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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:50 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I assume you're familiar with the staunch Faulconer-only section of the fan-base, they were there back then, and they were the mainstream audience. If they wanted GT to succeed, a replacement score couldn't hurt, or so they thought.
Funnily enough, back then, the JPN fans ruled the internet. But as more of dub fans grew up/got internet (I've only had full time internet since 2010), and as the older fans didn't care anymore/lost interest, Dub fans became the majority.

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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:01 am

Soppa Saia People wrote:Funnily enough, back then, the JPN fans ruled the internet. But as more of dub fans grew up/got internet (I've only had full time internet since 2010), and as the older fans didn't care anymore/lost interest, Dub fans became the majority.
You're right, you can go back to old posts on some websites that still exist and see it, but they're 2 entirely different generations of fans. The ones that Funimation was making money off of are the ones who tuned in every single episode on Toonami. When their Dragon Ball succeeded, they planted the seed that became the replacement score Z-only hyper-dub fans, those fans were fully developed by the time GT was broadcasted. Hilariously enough, it backfired stupendously. Even though GT succeeded financially, public opinion of that score is in the mud even all these years later, dub fan or not. I'd bet that if they had commissioned Faulconer Productions for GT, the dubbie section of fandom would embrace it wholeheartedly.
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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:22 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:I assume you're familiar with the staunch Faulconer-only section of the fan-base, they were there back then, and they were the mainstream audience. If they wanted GT to succeed, a replacement score couldn't hurt, or so they thought.
It seemed to me like they were going for a different vibe for GT compared to Z, and in that case, it just surprises me that they even felt it was worth going through the trouble of making a replacement score. Again, I get why they would continue doing that with anything related to Z, since that's really the one part of the franchise that made the series a phenomenon, and it it ain't broke (from a financial perspective anyway) don't fix it.

GT on the other hand, was never going to be as popular as Z. Funimation realized that with the original Dragon Ball series, which was why they kept the Kikuchi music for the dub of that, so why try so hard to advertise GT as something "hip"?

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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:25 am

WittyUsername wrote:GT on the other hand, was never going to be as popular as Z. Funimation realized that with the original Dragon Ball series, which was why they kept the Kikuchi music for the dub of that, so why try so hard to advertise GT as something "hip"?
Dragon Ball and DBGT are two totally different beast from different eras. They couldn't have re-versioned Dragon Ball if they'd wanted to.
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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:33 am

I don't really see how they couldn't have. The BLT dub for the series even used a replacement score.

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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:35 am

WittyUsername wrote:I don't really see how they couldn't have. The BLT dub for the series even used a replacement score.
Maybe a worded that wrong. They could have, but it wouldn't have benefited any purpose of their's, and the licensing worked just fine.
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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by Thouser » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:35 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:They couldn't have re-versioned Dragon Ball if they'd wanted to.
That's debatable. The early stuff is obviously more gag related than Z, but once you get to the Piccolo Daimaō arc it's basically the same as the Saiyan arc in tone. Funimation easily could have slapped on some Faulconer Productions (or Mark Menza, or whoever) music and added lots of cheesy jokes to the dialogue just as they had with Z.
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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:37 am

Thouser wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:They couldn't have re-versioned Dragon Ball if they'd wanted to.
That's debatable. The early stuff is obviously more gag related than Z, but once you get to the Piccolo Daimaō arc it's basically the same as the Saiyan arc in tone..
I agree. Who thinks of Dragon Ball and remembers that? You do, I do, the community with investment in the entire series does. Not the people who Funimation was marketing to.
Last edited by Jinzoningen MULE on Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by laserkid » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:29 am

As I recall, even though FUNimation had already been making strides in better dubbing practices by then, including keeping original soundtracks, they wanted Dragon Ball to be 'consistent'.

Many a discussion would come up back then and FUNimation themselves would even respond with how Dragon Ball needed to be treated with consistency, even though they admitted it wasn't the best idea in general. I am so very glad that this attitude changed in recent years.
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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:37 am

laserkid wrote:I am so very glad that this attitude changed in recent years.
I guess, but I can hardly care at this point. The damage was all said and done almost 20 years ago as far as Dragon Ball is concerned.
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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by laserkid » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:54 am

Well, I didn't mean it like THAT, I'm just happy that phase is so very behind us. :)
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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by Cipher » Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:55 am

Because we didn't know GT.

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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by SaiyamanMS » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:04 am

Cipher wrote:Because we didn't know GT.
Cipher wins this thread, pack up and go home everyone.

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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:14 am

Jinzoningen MULE wrote:Even though GT succeeded financially, public opinion of that score is in the mud even all these years later, dub fan or not. I'd bet that if they had commissioned Faulconer Productions for GT, the dubbie section of fandom would embrace it wholeheartedly.
They probably would have...except that Bruce Faulconer was a notoriously hard man to work with, by all accounts. If you ever wondered why he never showed up for the Ultimate Uncut Editions or GT...well, there's a PRE-TTY good reason for that :lolno: .
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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by UltimateHammerBro » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:15 pm

They could get royalties for the soundtrack, couldn't they? That's quite profitable for them.
Apart from that, cutting the early episodes to focus on the action parts showed that they wanted to make it appear more similar to DBZ in tone: Tokunaga's symphonic score would have clashed with the idea they had for the show.
Thouser wrote:
Jinzoningen MULE wrote:They couldn't have re-versioned Dragon Ball if they'd wanted to.
That's debatable. The early stuff is obviously more gag related than Z, but once you get to the Piccolo Daimaō arc it's basically the same as the Saiyan arc in tone..
Since they did cut the gag-related parts of GT, I could totally see them cutting and reordering the original Dragon Ball, summarising the early arcs, then going straight into the King Piccolo arc.
Cipher wrote:Because we didn't know GT.
Damn it! You beat me to it :lol:
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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:24 pm

Barry Watson was still in charge of the production at this point in the company's history. Essentially any major change like this ultimately trickled back up to him. It's important to keep in mind the time in fandom and the time of the company.

- I know it's very difficult for folks to understand this sometimes, but the fan-feedback on the Faulconer Productions replacement soundtrack was not good. It wasn't until the younger folks got online YEARS later that anyone even knew it had a following. Why stick with something your fans are telling you they don't like?

- FUNimation already had a history of purposefully trying to create theme songs and replacement scores that would resonate with the audience they were after (and have literally explained that this was their intent). They did it with DB in 1995 with a standard cartoon score, they did it with DBZ in 1996 with a synth-rock sound, they did it again with DBZ in 1999 trying to replicate that same sound, and they did it again with the movies after that with the nu-metal. Rap/hip-hop beats in GT in 2003 was an extension of that, and reflected the rock/rap hybrid popular in culture at the time.

- GT already had a bad reputation among fans long before its official release, so FUNimation tried to get in front of that with a different sort of messaging. Yeah, we make fun of "YOU DON'T KNOW GT!" for good reason, but it was quite honestly a brilliant move. It's smart marketing.

This all makes complete sense in retrospect. We don't have to like it as a product, but I hope we can at least come to an understanding of why it happened the way it did.
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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:21 pm

VegettoEX wrote:- I know it's very difficult for folks to understand this sometimes, but the fan-feedback on the Faulconer Productions replacement soundtrack was not good. It wasn't until the younger folks got online YEARS later that anyone even knew it had a following. Why stick with something your fans are telling you they don't like?
I'm not saying you're wrong, because I wasn't on the internet back then, but judging from people I knew who were fans around the time GT was airing in the US, that sounds ass-backwards. Even though I didn't get into it until later, I specifically remember the music getting universal praise in my school. Granted, this could have been a local majority opinion, as opposed to actual popular opinion.
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Re: Why did Funimation initially use a replacement score for GT?

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:25 pm

Key point there: in your school. Not online. Not at conventions. Not in any way that was actually getting back to FUNimation at the time by people with purchasing power.

That's what I'm saying when I'm noting how it wasn't until people your age got OLDER and started coming online that any of us (including FUNimation) actually found out someone, somewhere (anyone at all) actually liked that music.
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