Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

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Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by Dragonball Black » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:25 pm

So I've been seeing these memes lately and I normally think that the 90's styled version of whatever Dragonball Super scene is way better than the way its been done now. I wanted to see what you guys think. Do you think the 90's style is better or the style they have now. Also if anyone knows why it looked the way it did back then, and why it doesnt know. Let us know cuz I'm trying to figure it out for research.
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Re: Dragonball Super Done in the 90's Style?

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:09 pm

What the most talented people are doing is eschewing Tadayoshi Yamamuro's new character design styles in favor of corrections that favor another (past) designer's, or even just older work of Yamamuro's himself.

In general, what most people are doing is blowing out the saturation on random screen shots to make it resemble FUNimation's orange brick DVD sets because that's the raw visual they associate with "Dragon Ball". They're mostly terribly done and don't even match up to the "source" they're trying to replicate.

In both cases, there's nothing particularly "90s" about it. For the former, we've had Dragon Ball Super animators and supervisors occasionally using the same kind of angular, wider features traditionally found in the franchise in the past right there in the show that people are trying to "correct". For the latter, that wasn't until 2007. Calling it "90s" is just a cute way to describe it, but it has no real meaning behind it.
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Re: Dragonball Super Done in the 90's Style?

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:27 pm

To answer the OP's question:

- I think the 90s style is better. Partly nostalgia, partly its painterly feel that hand-drawn animation possesses.

- Times change. Computers evolved cartoons to have better colors and VFX and realism. But really, one can't rely on computers all the time, there has to be a hand-drawn element in animation to make it look beautiful IMO.

Also, Toei animation started ou tDBS with a low budget that resulted in terrible animation. Thankfully recent seasons improved DBS's animation.
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Re: Dragonball Super Done in the 90's Style?

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:31 pm

Dragon Ball Super is still drawn by hand on paper (though obviously it's ultimately produced on a computer to a digital format), and the show's early animation issues were far more a result of production pipeline and timing concerns than flat-out budgetary ones.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by laserkid » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:52 pm

I must be some kind of mutant because I actually waaay prefer the Super image here, the attempt at '90sifying' it just looks off to me.
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Re: Dragonball Super Done in the 90's Style?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:05 pm

DragonBallFoodie wrote:Also, Toei animation started ou tDBS with a low budget that resulted in terrible animation. Thankfully recent seasons improved DBS's animation.
Budget has nothing to do with quality. Dragon Ball Super began airing too soon with too few animators and too few finished episodes, which resulted in a production collapse that the series isn't recovering from. If anything Dragon Ball Super has a higher budget than normal with all of the extra animation supervisors necessary to finish most episodes.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by Thouser » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:19 pm

Dragonball Black wrote: Image
This is one of the better attempts I've seen. Most of the time people just blow out the saturation and contrast, as Mike noted.

Here they actually redrew parts of Vegeta (much like an animation director), in an attempt to make him more closely resemble the character models from the latter part of Z.

Some of the differences I see in the edited picture are:

1. The shading on Vegeta's face has been redrawn.
2. Vegeta's cheek lines have been redrawn to resemble Z's art.
3. Vegeta now has a dimple, as in Z. In the untouched Super screenshot he lacks this, which makes him look smoother and younger.
4. Vegeta's pecs and neck are much more defined. Or rather, his clothes are skintight enough for you to see his muscles, like his armor from the Cell arc.

Essentially, the effort was directed at making a modern screencap of Vegeta more closely resemble his old character design.

I recommend you check out Ajay's thread, which details all the different animation directors for Super, and the subtle differences in their art styles:

viewtopic.php?t=32434
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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by Dragonball Black » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:36 am

so is there anything thats super special about the way the 90's animation was. Why didnt they go that route with the newer stuff? I'm curious if there is a name for the 90's art style.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:31 pm

Super's digital animation makes it look very clean and precise, which a lot of people -- myself included -- aren't a fan of. IMO, DB, Z, and GT's rougher, more textured animation had more personality to it. Super is also more prone to poor animation than DB or Z was.

Also nostalgia.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by DHM211 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:38 pm

I really like how the new one is drawn tbh. It just needs a few tweaks to look perfect in my opinion.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by Ki Breaker » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:26 pm

laserkid wrote:I must be some kind of mutant because I actually waaay prefer the Super image here, the attempt at '90sifying' it just looks off to me.
Yes you might be one, the old one felt that it had a lot more emotion behind it and was pleasing to watch, this one is just lots of shiny stuff..
At least that's what I felt until I got used to it
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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by AnimeMaakuo » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:39 pm

Ki Breaker wrote:
laserkid wrote:I must be some kind of mutant because I actually waaay prefer the Super image here, the attempt at '90sifying' it just looks off to me.
Yes you might be one, the old one felt that it had a lot more emotion behind it and was pleasing to watch, this one is just lots of shiny stuff..
At least that's what I felt until I got used to it
I agree, here. The 90's style was ALOOOOT better. DBSuper animation looks like total crap.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by nickzambuto » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:46 pm

Another thing is that the "90s style" image used a different shade of blue. I think it looks way better. It looks more "Super Saiyan God" than lame "Super Saiyan Blue" if you know what I mean.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by NitroEX » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:58 pm

You can definitely fault the oversaturated colours of this revamp (we have Funi's awful orange bricks to thank for that) but I don't agree that this drawing is in any way "bad". From my perspective both the linework and shading on the top version are improvements over the Super (or maybe RoF?) keyframe. Not only that but the expression on Vegeta's face exudes personality whereas the Super one is emotionless and doll-like in comparison, this is only worsened by that unnecessary highlight layer on the skin, a common trait of modern Dragonball animation.

I'm sure there are plenty of bad attempts at these "90s" revamped frames out there but, colours aside, this is pretty good. That being said, some of this could be traced and I suppose some people could just prefer the newer styles of drawing to that of the old ones but in my opinion the top one helps highlight some flaws with the bottom drawing.

My only flaws with the top one would be the long jaw and the shoulders being uneven. Though with the jaw thing I'm pretty sure that was a common trait of a certain animator. Unfortunately I can't remember the names of Japanese animators without looking them up.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by Attitudefan » Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:10 am

NitroEX wrote:My only flaws with the top one would be the long jaw and the shoulders being uneven. Though with the jaw thing I'm pretty sure that was a common trait of a certain animator. Unfortunately I can't remember the names of Japanese animators without looking them up.
Long jaws from this low angle have been predominant since the Freeza arc ended. For some reason, they stopped drawing a jaw line during the Cyborg arc (I think the Trunks' first appearance in the show already has this weird long jaw design). Yamamuro's designs still are like this from this exact angle.

The revamped image to look more "90s" also has the weird design of no collar bones but just large--breast-like--pecs. The collar bones also disappeared in the Cyborg arc not long after Trunks defeats Freeza. Very strange design choices...

I'd prefer to see the 80s designs since they do not suffer from these flaws of long jaws, missing collar bones, and large noses.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:39 am

Super should be done in the style of the 2008 OVA. It looked just like the original series but renewed.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by MisteryOne » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:04 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Super should be done in the style of the 2008 OVA. It looked just like the original series but renewed.
This. This so much.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by Attitudefan » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:17 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:Super should be done in the style of the 2008 OVA. It looked just like the original series but renewed.
I'd be okay with that. The OVA really looked like where DBZ left off.

Heck, they kept Vegeta's hair brown just like in Z!
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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by nite_jay » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:31 pm

I'm not a big fan of the original, but the "90's style" one looks kinda gross imo. Vegeta's forehead is too big, and everything overall looks kinda off.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super done in the 90's style?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:32 pm

Dragonball Black wrote:Why didnt they go that route with the newer stuff?
I want to blame Yamamuro, but in reality, it's not entirely his fault. He's responsible for the overly-angular, overly shaded plastic look, but there is no hypothetical universe where new Dragon Ball aesthetically lives up to fans of he simpler style. Things have been progressing to what they are now for a long time, since at least the Android Arc, the characters have been becoming more rigid. Hell, even in the Boo Arc of Toriyama's manga, the characters' were far more lined than ever. I couldn't tell you why, but a progression towards the style we have now seems to be a natural shift for Dragon Ball. While I, and most fans of the old, aren't fond of this new direction, it's understandable. We're still fans, after all, so it can't be all bad.
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