Fan Service

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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Fan Service

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:14 pm

Maybe it's just because I'm noticing it more and not because it's happening more, but I think I'm seeing a trend in pop culture where it seems like there's more fanservicy moments, characters, and stories than there used to be. It can work fine if done organically, but it can often be distracting and counterproductive and just draw attention to the stuff I already liked previously instead of bringing something new to the table.
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Re: Fan Service

Post by Doctor. » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:22 pm

What do you define as fan service?

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Re: Fan Service

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:26 pm

Doctor. wrote:What do you define as fan service?
Good question and it's a vague term, but the Wikipedia entry says "giving the fans 'exactly what they want.' Fan service usually refers to 'gratuitous titillation', but can also refer to intertextual references to other series or story and visual elements that audiences tend to desire."
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Re: Fan Service

Post by precita » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:33 pm

Are we talking the sexual kind?

We've seen 16 year old Bulma's ass and breasts in Dragonball. Wake me up when we see 40+ year old Bulma's ass and boobs in Super.

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Re: Fan Service

Post by Thouser » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:43 pm

Fan service isn't just boobs. ABED's talking about stuff like bringing back popular characters who've been gone for a long time, or having a fight between characters that people really want to see.
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Re: Fan Service

Post by Gog » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:22 pm

Honestly I think we might need more fan service in the franchise

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Re: Fan Service

Post by Boo Machine » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:29 pm

There are a lot of Fans and all of them want something different. I feel it's kind of hard not to hit fan service to a degree.
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Re: Fan Service

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:00 pm

To me, fan service is defined as gratuitous pandering to the audience, and I have little stomach for it. I mean, sure, if you use it as a very spare seasoning in the dish that is your story, then it can be fun and help spice things up. But getting lost in fan service is the difference between eating a zesty meal and just being served a heaping plateful of salt. Obviously your mileage may vary, and the topic is such a matter of degrees that it all comes down to personal preference as to where that line rests. I find Resurrection 'F', for example, to be one of the franchise's most shameless attempts at fan service, and it's a vital component of why I find it so lacking (to put it mildly). It exists, first and foremost, as an excuse to get Goku and Freeza to fight again. It provides them new flashy transformations. It gives pathetic mooks for some of the other characters to cut their teeth on. And there is nary a hint of actual substance to be found. There's no story. There's no emotion. There's no weight to any of the actions. It exists because the powers that be thought fans would forego all of the parts of building of narrative that actually matter in favor of the spectacle of this needless rematch. And, sadly, it seems a lot of fans have proven them right. I find fan service to be such a slap in the face to the fans they're supposedly trying to service because it's the equivalent of dangling keys in front of their faces to entertain them, hoping they'll be too distracted by the shiny to notice the lack of anything substantive.
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Re: Fan Service

Post by sintzu » Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:06 pm

I think the reason popular franchises rely on it is because it's guaranteed to get massive attention from the fans.

This is a DB site so let's look at that, when it was known that Vegetto was coming back everyone lost their minds, ep66 became the most anticipated episode of the show, even though he was only in it for 2 minutes and added nothing to the story except changing established lore.

Same thing with Kaioken, everyone was looking forward to Goku's fight with Hit a lot more when they found out it was coming back.

When fan service gets that kind of reaction then you can be sure that we'll get more in the future, of course not all fan service will get the same attention and some might even backfire on them.

If Toei and Toriyama announce that Goku and Vegeta will fight for a 3rd time in Super then everyone and their dog will be talking about it, even people who never heared of DB will be talking and looking forward to it.
Gaffer Tape wrote: I mean, sure, if you use it as a very spare seasoning in the dish that is your story, then it can be fun and help spice things up.

I find Resurrection 'F', for example, to be one of the franchise's most shameless attempts at fan service.

It exists because the powers that be thought fans would forego all of the parts of building of narrative that actually matter in favor of the spectacle of this needless rematch.
I think Trunks and Vegeta's relationship was done pretty well in the Zamasu arc, it's something fans wanted to see with the reformed Vegeta but the writers were smart not to force it on us every minute.

The sad thing about RF is that it could've been a long developed arc but instead it was made as a rushed movie because they (according to them) wanted to get a new movie out as fast as possible to capitalized on BOG's success.

I've always wanted to see Vegeta beat a main villain and kick Freeza's sorry behind on Namek so to get both at the same time was something I never thought I'd see which is why I can overlook RF's many major flaws and enjoy it.
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Re: Fan Service

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:47 am

Well ironically for anime, for dragonball fanservice among people tends to be literal, where its people who just want to feel wowed by reference humor, retroactive continuity, and characters just getting fair moments to do something important aside from Goku. The only area to where it gets out of control is when the obsession with new forms takes over all aspects of a character to people, beyond redeemable fanservice. Good fanservice should be well written side stories or expanded representation for characters. Bad fanservice is the easy-market new Saiyan forms for old characters that people just assume they need because they don't have them in canon. Most fanfic tends to embody the stereotypical image of fanservice for this series a lot. Its very rare you get actual thought out creations to serve a smart curiosity or interest. I don't like seeing things for the sake of it.

Its also why I don't particularly like any Bardock material outside of the original special. He is so milked to the most superficial degree that if I didn't like the original special so much, I probably would feel the way people feel against Broly; who despite all of his exposure, never just gets a retcon to fix his general character issues. Extra transformations are always a turn off to me. Then there are those people who want Bardock to come back and meet Goku or become a Z-fighter in Super, which I find unnecessary because its changing his role in the series just for an implausible cameo. Dragonball Zero and Bardock After are my favourite fan stories, because they avoid doing what most of the terrible DB fanfic does. Its about a logical progression/prologue based on canon information and things that would make sense if ever in canon, not personal wank for a character or an added villain-sue character.

Though again in the official stuff, fanservice for me is just basic continuity (because of how much this series lacks it) and useful throwbacks references which is what I loved about GT's concept attempts. I got excited to see in the Zamasu arc when they brought up Cell's Time machine only because I recognized it being a plot-point from the past and a seemingly logical thing to bring back at the time. I just hate whenever the series has a major arc and the characters just act like it never happened (though I am tired of the Freeza overexposure).
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: Fan Service

Post by Gog » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:00 am

I've always wanted to see Vegeta beat a main villain and kick Freeza's sorry behind on Namek so to get both at the same time was something I never thought I'd see which is why I can overlook RF's many major flaws and enjoy it.
To me that was the worst part of the movie. Vegeta was just beating up, an exhausted weaker opponent. That moment just honest to god pissed me off. I half wanted Freeza to reveal he was just fucking around, and blast his sorry, arrogant ass.

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Re: Fan Service

Post by MozillaVulpix » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:17 am

It's very obvious there's more fanservice in DB Super than anything else in the franchise, and there are plenty of reasons as to why there would be.

1) The people who were fans themselves have grown up and in some cases may be responsible for some of the stories and executive decisions in the franchise.
2) The internet means fans can be a lot more passionate and vocal about their preferences.
3) Those nostalgic fans are actually buying things related to the franchise, so pandering to them even in minor ways is a harmless way to get a better return.

If there's nothing behind the fanservice, I don't find it inherently awful. I think I only have an issue if it's trying to pretend it's a big deal when it really isn't. Or if it's a bit too easy. Don't give the fans what they want if there's no story reason behind it! Seeing everyone in the Universal Survival Arc made me think about that. "Yeah, I'd love to see these characters fight. But why now?"
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.

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Re: Fan Service

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:16 am

I don't dislike fanservice. Like everything else, it comes down to execution. Fanservice doesn't automatically mean bad and I feel like whenever people say fanservice it is used as a negative term which is entirely wrong.

Using F as an example, it spectacularly failed in the execution department. The return of Freeza was not a bad idea, but it ended up being trash cause the storyboards were trash and so was the direction and so were the visuals and pretty much everything.

My opinion on it is give the fans what they want. There's nothing wrong with that, but execute it well enough. The Vegetto return in Super worked for me cause it was supported by good direction and it was visually pleasing.

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Re: Fan Service

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:34 am

The continued existence of Dragon Ball has been for decades a form of fan service. Toriyama is quite adamant about expressing how he continually made everything up as he went along and I think the only thing that separates one from another is whether or not it is interestingly crafted. Fukkatsu no F, with its godawful directing and animation, is one of those big examples of bad productions.

The slant towards 'fan service' of the non-sexual kind in modern media is tethered into the greater influence that the internet and social media plays. Corporations are always looking toward maximizing an audience, especially ones with somewhat tangible bases. The revival of Dragon Ball in 2013 is an example of this, with nostalgia being the basis of the marketing campaign. Now we have the Dragon Ball Room, a think-tank designed to maximize the evergreen properties of the property. What is their number one priority? Tapping into what the base likes and the basis for the base's existence.

It's unfortunate, but we'll never get the sort of 'fan service' so commonly associated with the term 'fan service', tits and ass. The Dragon Ball franchise is tightly jammed into the hole that is being a mainstream project, so we'll likely never get a creator's ideas injected into a piece of the franchise. There's also Toriyama to consider. While Toriyama has included nudity before he's never shown a penchant for genuinely like 2D characters or having any sort of sex drive, so we'll certainly never get such a thing from his corner. Dragon Ball is unfortunately doomed to eternal sexless-ness.
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Re: Fan Service

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:40 am

I don't think fanservice is bad if fans get things they know and love but it's used organically like at the end of Skyfall where things come full circle. It's annoying, but tolerable when there are inorganic moments that are still kinda cool (Vader being badass at the end of Rogue One), but the worst of it is when the moments or story exist SOLELY to pop the fans often the expense of the story and characters because fans have fond memories of something they previously saw. I don't enjoy seeing a long running series devolve into a series of callbacks to moments or characters I loved in the past. The reason I loved those moments were because they were new.

A couple of people here bring up Social media, but I really hope that isn't the reason for this proliferation of fanservice as I don't think social media reactions are indicative of the overall audience.
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Re: Fan Service

Post by Gog » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:41 am

JulieYBM wrote: It's unfortunate, but we'll never get the sort of 'fan service' so commonly associated with the term 'fan service', tits and ass. The Dragon Ball franchise is tightly jammed into the hole that is being a mainstream project, so we'll likely never get a creator's ideas injected into a piece of the franchise. There's also Toriyama to consider. While Toriyama has included nudity before he's never shown a penchant for genuinely like 2D characters or having any sort of sex drive, so we'll certainly never get such a thing from his corner. Dragon Ball is unfortunately doomed to eternal sexless-ness.
Actually now that you talk about it. I'm glad that we're not getting fan service of the tits and ass variant, like One Piece, as I'm going to say it. Its annoying and distracting and adds nothing too the plot. Unless they manage to add fan service without intruding on the plot.

But besides that, let the fan service stay at the sexy fan art section, and let it stay there ever more

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Re: Fan Service

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:20 am

Nothing wrong with that fanservice. I would love to see it happen, but execution once again is the most important. Dragon Ball women are so unbearably boring that it would be a nice change to see if fanservice makes them entertaining or not.

Marron was somewhat of an exception. But, there was so much more the staff could've done with her, but they didn't. I guess it's the stupid mainstream effect like JulieYBM said that'll forever keep Dragon Ball devoid of it.

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Re: Fan Service

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:27 am

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:Nothing wrong with that fanservice. I would love to see it happen, but execution once again is the most important. Dragon Ball women are so unbearably boring that it would be a nice change to see if fanservice makes them entertaining or not.

Marron was somewhat of an exception. But, there was so much more the staff could've done with her, but they didn't. I guess it's the stupid mainstream effect like JulieYBM said that'll forever keep Dragon Ball devoid of it.
How would fanservice play into making DB women less boring?

I haven't seen Super, so what happened with Marron?
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Re: Fan Service

Post by Gog » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:34 am

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:Nothing wrong with that fanservice. I would love to see it happen, but execution once again is the most important. Dragon Ball women are so unbearably boring that it would be a nice change to see if fanservice makes them entertaining or not.

Marron was somewhat of an exception. But, there was so much more the staff could've done with her, but they didn't. I guess it's the stupid mainstream effect like JulieYBM said that'll forever keep Dragon Ball devoid of it.
Um... So you want fanservice because it might make them entertaining. My, My brain cannot. Comprehend

Marron was a boring plank of wood, with big pieces of flab attached to the chest. You know what, Chi Chi, Bulma, and Vados, are busty enough, they don't need to roam around in skin tight red clothing with shows just enough skin, that you feel your little man standing up. That would be stupid, and would stand out like a sore thumb.

You know what, I still stand by it, if I want fan service I'll go into the sex fanart thread, If I want dragon ball. I'll watch Dragon ball super.

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Re: Fan Service

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:38 am

I think #66 of DBS is a much better example of fan service gone wrong than the Freeza movie, the Freeza movie is self contained and knew what it was achieving however #66 was made of months of build up, not only to get a retcon (which I was fine with) but that retcon ended up being retconned in the same episode so Trunks can do his thing! I was against Vegetto from the start because I knew what would happen it was just gonna be pure fan service, kind of ironic that I have him as a avatar :P

I actually think the Freeza movie is a good example of fan service because as I mentioned it's all self contained, the film never takes itself seriously and is aware of what it is.

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