Which studio besides Toei would you like DB to be animated by?

[8000 Saiyan]

I don't think Ghibli people worked on the 10th Anniversary movie. Especially not Miyazaki and Takahata. The only thing I remember is that Hosoda did some key animation work.

As for studios, they don't really mean much, as much as staff does. Except Kyouto Animation who do almost everything in-house, all the good work that you see in anime are the work of freelancers. If some of the good freelancers are acquainted with the series director or episode directors or even production assistants they'll show up. Connections matter most.

A DB movie by Toei Animation with better planning, scheduling and with Toei's best in-house talents would be the most satisfying and something that's possible and not unrealistic. No Yamamuro, no Sumitomo, Hayashi or Tate as CD, Takaki as music composer and lead by Nagamine would be the best thing.

If I were to entertain the idea of any other studio besides Toei though, I would give it to Studio Pierrot or more specifically the Naruto staff. They've handled the Naruto series with so much care and delivered extraordinary work when it mattered. Something like that would make Dragon Ball an impressive franchise both visually and creatively.

Trigger is a good choice as well. Imaishi leading with his trusted team members like Sushio, Amemiya Akira etc would do wonders. His Kanada-style influence and that aesthetic would be perfect for Dragon Ball.

I'm glad that you didn't mention Memehouse.

Do you have a problem with Madhouse?

[Ajay]

Do you have a problem with Madhouse?

I doubt it. It's just that "Based Madhouse should animate Super!!!!" is such common and problematic rhetoric. I imagine Saikyo no Senshi is just thankful the thread didn't start with that.

A lot of people talk about anime studios as though they're one person responsible for all of the content released under the name-- or at least, as though a few good shows from them would mean another show would be good, too. Of course, it's the efforts of the individuals under that umbrella that matter, and are where the focus of these conversations should be. Many studios rely on outside help - whether that be sub-studios or freelancers. The quality of a production can vary so heavily depending on who's involved, even if it's all under one name.

The issue with Madhouse specifically, is that they pop up so much in these types of threads, yet they rely so heavily on outside help that some people can make jokes like, "It's a <insert studio here> show in disguise!". So when people go, "BASED MADHOUSE! ANIMATE THIS SHOW PLS!!!111!!", it can be frustrating if you follow this stuff since it's a bit like saying, "Ugh, I wish 20th Century Fox made this movie!!!", as though the name would somehow mean the cast and crew would be the same as x great film that happened to be produced by that studio - implying the name alone would guarantee greatness.

Madhouse have some decent shows under their belt, but they also have a bunch of crappy ones, too. Few share the same staff - One-Punch Man and Hunter x Hunter are both good shows under the Madhouse name, but they could not be more different staff-wise, and therein lies the issue. This goes for a whole bunch of studios, Toei included. Imagine watching Tiger Mask W and Kyousougiga - two recent and wonderfully animated Toei shows - and wishing they'd animate Berserk, for example. If your only experience with Toei was Dragon Ball Super, you might think that person was mental. That's the big issue with talking about studios like one person; every production is different and you just can't write off or big them up based on only their best and worst works.

The best way to frame these kinds of conversations is to talk staff, or at least go beyond the surface level of a studio name. What directors and animators have contacts with what studio? What combinations would be cool to see? How equipped is x studio to handle this type of production? You get where I'm going!

There's stacks of information out there about this subject. It's definitely not as impenetrable as it might seem! I strongly encourage everyone to check out sites like Sakugablog for a better understanding. Heck, check out Kanzenshuu's own production guides and you'll see how many non-Toei staff were responsible for your favourite Dragon Ball Z moments!

[Hellspawn28]

Dragon Ball does not feel like a title for Mad House. Expect for a few titles, Mad House always feels like a studio for a more mature and darker titles. When I think of Mad House, I think of this (WARNING BLOOD!)



















Dragon Ball never felt a title for MH for me since Dragon Ball always had a more colorful look.

[rereboy]

Do you have a problem with Madhouse?

I doubt it. It's just that "Based Madhouse should animate Super!!!!" is such common and problematic rhetoric. I imagine Saikyo no Senshi is just thankful the thread didn't start with that.

A lot of people talk about anime studios as though they're one person responsible for all of the content released under the name-- or at least, as though a few good shows from them would mean another show would be good, too. Of course, it's the efforts of the individuals under that umbrella that matter, and are where the focus of these conversations should be. Many studios rely on outside help - whether that be sub-studios or freelancers. The quality of a production can vary so heavily depending on who's involved, even if it's all under one name.

The issue with Madhouse specifically, is that they pop up so much in these types of threads, yet they rely so heavily on outside help that some people can make jokes like, "It's a <insert studio here> show in disguise!". So when people go, "BASED MADHOUSE! ANIMATE THIS SHOW PLS!!!111!!", it can be frustrating if you follow this stuff since it's a bit like saying, "Ugh, I wish 20th Century Fox made this movie!!!", as though the name would somehow mean the cast and crew would be the same as x great film that happened to be produced by that studio - implying the name alone would guarantee greatness.

Madhouse have some decent shows under their belt, but they also have a bunch of crappy ones, too. Few share the same staff - One-Punch Man and Hunter x Hunter are both good shows under the Madhouse name, but they could not be more different staff-wise, and therein lies the issue. This goes for a whole bunch of studios, Toei included. Imagine watching Tiger Mask W and Kyousougiga - two recent and wonderfully animated Toei shows - and wishing they'd animate Berserk, for example. If your only experience with Toei was Dragon Ball Super, you might think that person was mental. That's the big issue with talking about studios like one person; every production is different and you just can't write off or big them up based on only their best and worst works.

The best way to frame these kinds of conversations is to talk staff, or at least go beyond the surface level of a studio name. What directors and animators have contacts with what studio? What combinations would be cool to see? How equipped is x studio to handle this type of production? You get where I'm going!

There's stacks of information out there about this subject. It's definitely not as impenetrable as it might seem! I strongly encourage everyone to check out sites like Sakugablog for a better understanding. Heck, check out Kanzenshuu's own production guides and you'll see how many non-Toei staff were responsible for your favourite Dragon Ball Z moments!

It really doesn't matter how those studios achieve their results, if its solely thanks to their own staff, or because of a combination of their staff and the people that they choose and are able to get from outside. All that matters is the end result, and in terms of end results, studios like MadHouse have consistently had awesome end results (not 100%, of course). That's what gets fans to want MadHouse and similar studios to take on the franchises: the favorable odds of it being an awesome good result. So, imo, it's completely irrelevant for a fan of the franchise if they do it with just their own staff or not, the fan just cares about the odds of it being good.

Also, I confess I don't see the sense in praising so much the studio behind Naruto and then addressing Madhouse as memehouse, but to each its own.

Dragon Ball does not feel like a title for Mad House. Expect for a few titles, Mad House always feels like a studio for a more mature and darker titles. When I think of Mad House, I think of this (WARNING BLOOD!)

Dragon Ball never felt a title for MH for me since Dragon Ball always had a more colorful look.

Not necessarily. MadHouse did the anime for Hajime no Ippo, for example (it's neither dark or gory, and it's pretty shonen, even though it's realistic).

[Hellspawn28]

That's why I said expect for a few. Most of the Mad House anime to me have been dark and ultra violent titles from classics (Ninja Scroll, Perfect Blue and Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust) to modern titles (Black Lagoon, Parasyte and Death Parade)

[coola]

I wonder, if new Cardcaptor Sakura anime will be as long as its prequel, i know Super have almost 100 episodes already, but original CCS had 70 episodes, with was pretty lengthy too, and they all looked great, sequel looks fantastic too (If they use same animation as they do for this OVA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VySDRbfnev4

[rereboy]

That's why I said expect for a few. Most of the Mad House anime to me have been dark and ultra violent titles from classics (Ninja Scroll, Perfect Blue and Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust) to modern titles (Black Lagoon, Parasyte and Death Parade)

Sure, but, imo, that shows that they are perfectly capable of other kind of work. A recent example, One Punch Man, despite having some gore, to me shows how good they can make colorful action with a more shonen feel than actually mature.

[Ajay]

It really doesn't matter how those studios achieve their results, if its solely thanks to their own staff, or because of a combination of their staff and the people that they choose and are able to get from outside. All that matters is the end result, and in terms of end results, studios like MadHouse have consistently had awesome end results (not 100%, of course). That's what gets fans to want MadHouse and similar studios to take on the franchises: the favorable odds of it being an awesome good result. So, imo, it's completely irrelevant for a fan of the franchise if they do it with just their own staff or not, the fan just cares about the odds of it being good.

I'm well aware of why people talk about studios in this way - that wasn't my point though, of course. I'm simply making the case that it's silly to talk about studios in this way, and that you're not actually saying anything substantial by doing so.

Let me put it to you this way: One-Punch Man was hugely successful because of Shingo Natsume's connections; he brought on board some spectacular talent, and that show was stellar as a result. Season 2 is inevitably coming from Madhouse, but that season is not necessarily going to be as well-animated as season 1 just because it's from that studio.

Along the same lines, you have the Ace Attorney anime from A-1 Pictures that is notoriously poorly animated. Did that being bad mean that Occultic;Nine was going to be poor, too? No, of course not. O;9 turned out great! Totally different staff and production environments.

Another example that hits close to home: Toei's One Piece adaptation was looking pretty great as Super began, yet Super was a total mess in comparison. Toei's PreCure in 2014 was looking decent week to week, but Sailor Moon Crystal was abysmal bi-weekly. Same reasons once again.

In the large majority of cases, you cannot determine how a show will turn out on studio alone, and you don't need to. There are so many factors you can look at and talk about that avoid playing "the odds" based on a studio's name and reputation - things that don't actually convey much in comparison.

So rather than saying, "Oh, I'd love to see <insert studio here> tackle Super!", why not try taking a look at a show you thought worked well by them, and see who's responsible for it -- find out why it worked. That actually promotes interesting conversation.

People talk about film directors all day long - they're not clamouring after production companies - why does that suddenly change when it comes to anime? It doesn't need to. There is absolutely no good reason for it to, and it needs to change.

[floofychan333]

I heard that Studio Ghibli (famous for its founding directors Isao Takahata and Hayao Miyazaki) worked on a DB film, PATH TO POWER. The animation in that feature was spectacular, and I think DBS would benefit greatly from having Ghibli people work on it. (Ghibli is also having financial problems that DBS would certainly save it from, so two birds with one stone)

Though it would be awesome to see Ghibli animate Dragon Ball, I sure hope it's not the sheer horrific crap that Path to Power was. I didn't like the new art style with the old story though I did think they animated it well and I can't recall any of the hilarious errors that Toei makes in it.

[rereboy]

It really doesn't matter how those studios achieve their results, if its solely thanks to their own staff, or because of a combination of their staff and the people that they choose and are able to get from outside. All that matters is the end result, and in terms of end results, studios like MadHouse have consistently had awesome end results (not 100%, of course). That's what gets fans to want MadHouse and similar studios to take on the franchises: the favorable odds of it being an awesome good result. So, imo, it's completely irrelevant for a fan of the franchise if they do it with just their own staff or not, the fan just cares about the odds of it being good.

I'm well aware of why people talk about studios in this way - that wasn't my point though, of course. I'm simply making the case that it's silly to talk about studios in this way, and that you're not actually saying anything substantial by doing so.

Let me put it to you this way: One-Punch Man was hugely successful because of Shingo Natsume's connections; he brought on board some spectacular talent, and that show was stellar as a result. Season 2 is inevitably coming from Madhouse, but that season is not necessarily going to be as well-animated as season 1 just because it's from that studio.

Along the same lines, you have the Ace Attorney anime from A-1 Pictures that is notoriously poorly animated. Did that being bad mean that Occultic;Nine was going to be poor, too? No, of course not. O;9 turned out great! Totally different staff and production environments.

Another example that hits close to home: Toei's One Piece adaptation was looking pretty great as Super began, yet Super was a total mess in comparison. Toei's PreCure in 2014 was looking decent week to week, but Sailor Moon Crystal was abysmal bi-weekly. Same reasons once again.

In the large majority of cases, you cannot determine how a show will turn out on studio alone, and you don't need to. There are so many factors you can look at and talk about that avoid playing "the odds" based on a studio's name and reputation - things that don't actually convey much in comparison.

So rather than saying, "Oh, I'd love to see <insert studio here> tackle Super!", why not try taking a look at a show you thought worked well by them, and see who's responsible for it -- find out why it worked. That actually promotes interesting conversation.

People talk about film directors all day long - they're not clamouring after production companies - why does that suddenly change when it comes to anime? It doesn't need to. There is absolutely no good reason for it to, and it needs to change.

I don't think it's silly at all. People that suggest Madhouse or similar studios aren't trying to imply that studios like MadHouse are infallible or that anything that they touch is gold. It's simply a question of that they think is more likely. And from what they have seen, they think Madhouse or a similar studio has more of a chance of bringing a good end result.

Everything you are saying amounts to just saying that there are many factors and it's perfectly possible for MadHouse or other similar studio to not do such a great job if circumstances aren't favorable. And sure, that's all true... But how does it really change the odds of it being a good end result when compared to other studios? I mean, there's the chance that even the worst studio in the world could create a fantastic adaptation of a franchise while the best studio creates a subpar adaptation, but are we going to not suggest the studios that we think have a much better chance of doing it...?

Personally, I'm perfectly aware that Madhouse or Bones could drop the ball and not do such a good job if they were creating a Dragon Ball anime... But from what I've seen, I would consider them to be at the top of the list regarding studios with the best odds of creating a fantastic Dragon Ball anime, so, obviously, in a discussion about it, I would suggest them. The possibility of them failing, of things not working out, is something that is always present no matter how good someone or something is.

And yes, we can absolutely discuss the staff, the directors and so on... But that doesn't mean we can't discuss the studio or that it's irrelevant. That just complements the discussion because, just like it's not just the studio that is relevant, it's also not just the director or some staff members that are relevant. In a discussion about superhero movies, for example, yes, the director and so on would be relevant, but if it's Fox or Marvel Studios would also be relevant in regards to what we believe would likely be best.

[Ajay]

<snip>

We may end up having to agree to disagree (this is for sure my last post since it's late here), but let me try another approach, putting animation quality aside, and focusing on appropriateness for the source material since that's also come up.

Take a look at Hellspawn28's post (so sorry for throwing you under the bus, but it demonstrates my point too perfectly!)

Dragon Ball does not feel like a title for Mad House. Expect for a few titles, Mad House always feels like a studio for a more mature and darker titles. When I think of Mad House, I think of this (WARNING BLOOD!)
Dragon Ball never felt a title for MH for me since Dragon Ball always had a more colorful look.

This is the kind of thing you see as a result of talking about studios as single entities with a sole creative voice. What you're actually seeing are the voices of several directors behind the material posted who just happen to have taken a darker approach. At the same time, there are shows like No Game No Life, Chobits, or even just Hunter x Hunter's first few arcs where there's a deliberate choice being made to take a brighter aesthetic. A studio does not dictate the tone of a show - it cannot be more of less suitable for a series than anyone else in that regard. That type of thing is why it's important to discuss staff, or more specifically in this case, directors - see: Kazuhiro Furuhashi's HxH adaptation vs Hiroshi Kojina's. The differences in tone are not the result of two different animation studios!

Another example would be Studio Ghibli. Their films don't all feel the same. For example, Takahata's Princess Kaguya is nothing like Miyazaki's The Wind Rises - they both have totally different approaches. Yet I understand why people think otherwise since Miyazaki's films take up the vast majority of their catalogue, and his films are very distinct. There are certainly cases where I can understand making these kinds of generalisations - they're just things I'm advocating to avoid.

So to make the point as clear as I possibly can: you cannot determine with any real credibility what studio is more or less suitable for the series based on studio name alone. What you're looking for are staff names, and to make decisions based on their body of work - are their animation specialties fit for this type of series, and does the director seem like the right guy for the source material. You generally want to fall back on the studio for the nitty gritty details - again, how equipped are they to handle a long-form series, for example. (The Fox vs Marvel example you gave is a little different to what we're discussing. That's more a conversation about production committees and their creative control over a project, rather than to do with the animation studios. Valid point of discussion, but definitely not what's being spoken about in this thread)

Don't get me wrong, you can absolutely do what many people have done in this thread and simply name studios you like - I get it, I do understand why it's happening; I've done it myself in the past - and people will understand what you mean, usually. I promise you don't need to explain that to me over and over again. I'm not saying you can't do that either, I'm just saying it's perhaps not the best way to go about it. It's just not how we normally talk about other forms of entertainment, but for whatever reason, anime is the exception and I'd like that to change. Give me more interesting, well-informed discussion!

[8000 Saiyan]

I'd like to see Sunrise doing it.

[TenshinFan]

Genndy Tartakovsky would make an insanely entertaining DB show.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

With how vibrant the original series was with color and backgrounds, then Gibli would be my vote. I know that's kind of a generic answer but that's just me.

[SansrivaaL]

I'd just like to drop in and say the studio really doesnt matter that much, its the staff thats important based from what I've watched, Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei for example, the series was handled by Madhouse" while the movie was handled by "8bit" but because the staff were the same the quality,artwork literally everything was the same as always, tho the movie one obviously had better animations but you get the point.

[rereboy]

I'd just like to drop in and say the studio really doesnt matter that much, its the staff thats important based from what I've watched, Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei for example, the series was handled by Madhouse" while the movie was handled by "8bit" but because the staff were the same the quality,artwork literally everything was the same as always, tho the movie one obviously had better animations but you get the point.

The studio matters because certain studios are much more likely to do what it takes to make a good product, like going outside their own in-house staff and getting outside people to work in the production, while others are clearly much less likely to do that and will focus on costs, for example.

[Bruma rabu]

I agree with Ajay, it doesn't really matter what studio has dragon ball but who they hire to animate it. But i guess that would complicate the question. You'd have to list out all the job positionings and hand pick people.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Genndy Tartakovsky would make an insanely entertaining DB show.

I am so curious as to what that would look like. Tartakovsky's shows all have a similar style that can't be replicated by anyone else.

Bones making a seasonal Dragon Ball series would be sweet. I'm literally just basing this off of how much I'm enjoying My Hero Academia's production.

[8000 Saiyan]

Genndy Tartakovsky would make an insanely entertaining DB show.

I like Tartakovsky's style, but I think I wouldn't like his style in Dragon Ball.

[TheAldella]

Pierrot. They seem to have a hard-on for Norio Matsumoto and Hiroyuki Yamashita. That is a very good thing.
[spoiler]https://sakugabooru.com/post/show/35563

https://sakugabooru.com/post/show/26736[/spoiler]