"Zenkai" - 全開 or 全快? (Also, questions on origins of the term in Western fandom)

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Dieslley
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Re: "Zenkai" - 全開 or 全快? (Also, questions on origins of the term in Western fandom)

Post by Dieslley » Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:36 am

CodeOfMe wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:01 am
Dieslley wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:32 pm Sorry to bring back this discussion, but I noticed that Goku uses the word 全快 on page 13 of chapter 283, when he shows to know that Vegeta's power increased after almost dying and recovering.

Goku's sentence is: 死にかけて全快してから力がグンと増えたはずだ
This is the translation from viz.
Image
As we all know, viz does sometimes have wacky translations, but I'm not sure any other translation mentions a "zenkai boost" either.
Yeah, but my intention was just to point out that the use of the word 全快 (complete recovery of health) really exists in the original work!

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Re: "Zenkai" - 全開 or 全快? (Also, questions on origins of the term in Western fandom)

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:20 am

Hey, folks:

It's worth noting that you new folks are responding to a long-since-dead thread from five years ago. There have certainly been additional conversations on this subject in the time since, and probably most notably, the thread creator (Cipher) is infinitely more well-versed and proficient in the language than even back then.

But yes, the verb zenkai (suru) in this context is used appropriately in the original language in the manga in this one example... but using that as the basis for fabricating a new in-universe proper noun for "near-death recovery" is kinda like saying "He got a taberu" instead of "He got hungry for a cheeseburger".

(OK, that's not the best example, but it's fairly representative.)
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Re: "Zenkai" - 全開 or 全快? (Also, questions on origins of the term in Western fandom)

Post by Cipher » Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:18 am

I mean, yeah, that was probably it, though I'm still not sure how English-language fandom glommed onto it in this way or who was plucking that phrase and that phrase alone out of the Japanese to use like that.

The Japanese fandom sometimes uses phrases like 瀕死パワーアップ (hinshi power-up; near-death power-up) or 復活パワーアップ (fukkatsu power-up; recovery power-up).

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Re: "Zenkai" - 全開 or 全快? (Also, questions on origins of the term in Western fandom)

Post by TheGreatness25 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:33 pm

I actually don't think I ever used "zenkai" really, but I can kind of see why it's used. It's a simple single two syllable word that conveys everything you need to know.

While I get that it's different from a "Tenka'ichi Budokai" or "Kaiō-ken," for example, is it different than a "senzu," for example? "Senzu" isn't a proper noun, is it? Then again, is "seiyū" a proper noun? I know that I've scratched my head many times over the years when someone would refer to a "seiyū"--"you mean a 'voice actor'?"

It's just one of those things, I guess. I think that besides "zenkai" telling you all the information you need in one word, it probably became a buzz word because of the first Z ending theme.

By the way, how's "ōzaru" do in this argument? Is it a proper noun?

How does one tell if it's a proper noun in Japanese, anyway?

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Re: "Zenkai" - 全開 or 全快? (Also, questions on origins of the term in Western fandom)

Post by Metalwario64 » Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:09 pm

Zenkai as a term in the fandom was never a thing I latched onto.

I always thought "near death power-up" or VegettoEX's example to describe it sounded so much cooler. Not everything needs to have a proper noun or title. I'm not complaining or saying they shouldn't, but I have always noticed a tendency for parts of the fandom to want terms to associate with literally every facet of the series in-universe, like using the video-game given names to every single move the characters have ever used or things like "Teen Gohan", which the latter was something that did slightly annoy me back in the day.

As I'm older, I don't really care these days, let people do what they want, though that kinda thing isn't for me.
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