Full frame movies

[Jinzoningen MULE]

But I don't know why you're nitpicking a hypothetical question so much anyway.

Because the rhetorical question you gave was misleading. I don't particularly care about the hypothetical.

[goku83]

Have any releases of the DB or DBZ movies on DVD or BD been in full frame? (Even in Japan)

There are Fusion-Rips/Baaro fansubs of DB movie 1, 3, 4, DBZ movie 7 which are full frame. Does anyone know what source material was used for those?

DB MOVIE 1-2-3-4 have been released on blu-ray by zima entertainment (or soon for db movie 4) they have more footage than the funimation streaming even if they are only dub and don't have japanese audio and db movies 1-2 have creditless op ending and the 3rd have the same ending credits as funi did on their dvd (the ending box goes on the top left screen)

DBZ movies 1-2-3 i don't really know
4-5 are in the german kaze dvd box but are old transfer (with haloing around edge and not as sharp as funi one) the same goes for dbz movies 12 13 which are on the bonus dvd
6 i don't know
7-11 are on the french box but miss some little footage on top like it was shown on an older topic by kei17
11 exist full screen like the german one on the greek deagostini hellas dvd (maybe some other movies have this kind of cropping too)

so as for i know if you want THE BEST FOOTAGE it's funi for 1-6 french for remaining but if you want the most image screen no matter how look the masters take german dvd for 4 5 12 13, greek for 11 and french for 7-10

[Danfun64]

DB MOVIE 1-2-3-4 have been released on blu-ray by zima entertainment (or soon for db movie 4) they have more footage than the funimation streaming

What do you mean by "more footage"? I thought the transfers on Funimationnow and Zima's Blu-Rays were pretty much the same.

if you want the most image screen no matter how look the masters take german dvd for 4 5

Aren't the transfers used on the German DVDs and the Big Green DVDs the same?

[Cipher]

People in this thread be talking like digital zoom doesn't also blow up dirt, grain, and digital artifacts.

Anyway, I do sympathize with those who want 4:3 releases outside of FUNimation's early, poorly encoded DVDs. I also think the better framing tends to vary between films. Some make a compelling case for the cropping; others seem to benefit more often from seeing the full frame. Thankfully neither is unwatchable, but the more options the better. In a perfect world for niche media, there'd be a release that includes both.

[goku83]

DB MOVIE 1-2-3-4 have been released on blu-ray by zima entertainment (or soon for db movie 4) they have more footage than the funimation streaming

What do you mean by "more footage"? I thought the transfers on Funimationnow and Zima's Blu-Rays were pretty much the same.

if you want the most image screen no matter how look the masters take german dvd for 4 5

Aren't the transfers used on the German DVDs and the Big Green DVDs the same?

they are from the same source yes and i think if funi released one day those movies on blu-ray they'll have the same crop as the zima one but on the funi streaming it miss around 1cm footage on each side


about the german dvd totally not , german dvd used mixed things, as like i said movie 4-5,12,13 are uncropped (12, 13 are in the bonus dvd only with german sub), movie 9-10 are letterbox widescreen, the 12-13 (censored version called "der film") used the french old footage and all others i don't know but their color seems better than big green dub

[Danfun64]

What about the DB and DBZ series? Would you say that some European releases are less zoomed in than the Dragon Boxes? I know that Kai 1.0 and the Level Sets are less zoomed in, but those were modern transfers...

[TheKingOfKamehamehas]

What about the DB and DBZ series? Would you say that some European releases are less zoomed in than the Dragon Boxes? I know that Kai 1.0 and the Level Sets are less zoomed in, but those were modern transfers...

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do think the Funi Dragon Ball Saga Sets (Australian and U.K release) show a little bit more footage than the Dragon Boxes or it could just be a matter of framing. As for the European releases, I don't really know.
Edit: Never mind looks like it happens to be certain cases with framing.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

I take the perspective that I'm lucky to be able to watch the movies the way they were presented on the big screen with the full cinematic experience thanks to my widescreen TV.

You mean...4:3? We got 4:3 screenings. Why 16:9 cinematic experience with center crop is better than 4:3 experience with more beautiful artwork and better “scene composition”? (with this source material, I would also say better sharpness with zoomed out 4:3 footage)

And yeah I can zoom but I do prefer a proper cropped version for purposes of quality, although if I had to watch a 4:3 version I wouldn't even bother zooming.

The entire point is that losing 20% of the picture is bigger problem than tiny lack of sharpness with zooming. You can zoom in, I cannot zoom out.

I just don't care that much, it's a mild preference (I guess that makes me the enemy).

The bigger influence on future releases you have, the bigger enemy you are

People in this thread be talking like digital zoom doesn't also blow up dirt, grain, and digital artifacts.

Doesn't optical zoom blow up dirt and grain?

Some make a compelling case for the cropping (...)

Which ones? I can recall one at the moment: Gohan with Masenkō. Can you give some examples?

What about the DB and DBZ series? Would you say that some European releases are less zoomed in than the Dragon Boxes?

This one

[Danfun64]

yeah, nice job. you post a(n almost) completely unzoomed image, but don't post where it came from...

[Cipher]

Doesn't optical zoom blow up dirt and grain?

I suppose, but there's a major false equivalency going on when people are suggesting simply hitting the "zoom" button on a 4:3 release on a widescreen TV is the equivalent, either in terms of picture-quality or framing, of a release using a cropped master.

Which ones? I can recall one at the moment: Gohan with Masenkō. Can you give some examples?

There are examples in Z movie 3 beyond the Masenko that the staff seemed to be privileging the cropped format. As Bulma, Kuririn and Oolong make their wish to Shen-Long, for example, they're literally standing on nothing. There's no ground drawn in. The forest background simply extends past their feet. While most shots in the movie aren't so egregious, they do tend to be framed very carefully for 16:9, with a lot of dead space in the top and bottom of the frame. I don't think it'd be a difficult argument to say that the cropped aspect ratio adheres more naturally to visual conventions, standard framing practices, etc. (Shots framed to adhere nicely to the rule of thirds when cropped, but rendered as quadrants or just all the hell over the place when unmatted.)

Off the top of my head, while I don't remember it containing any outright errors, I remember being firmly in the camp that Movie 7's framing vastly benefited from the cropping as well. At the cost of losing some of the art, the movie's visuals suddenly cohered in a way I never though they had on the 4:3 release I was used to.

For most of the films, though, I think there's an argument to be made either way, and some, especially the first three Dragon Ball movies, seem to benefit from the unmatted framing just as often, if not more often, than they do the matted version.

[Danfun64]

Would be fun if someone checked each movie for whether it favored 16:9 or 4:3.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I'd be interested to see that, although I doubt many people own both versions.

[Danfun64]

Here's another example of 4:3 issues...

if anyone wants to check their DVD's..I noticed you can see where the cel and background ends (see bottom)

[Kojiro Sasaki]

yeah, nice job. you post a(n almost) completely unzoomed image, but don't post where it came from...

If this would be a thing, I would tell you - don't worry. Besides, people know the source of this screenshot
Let's say that this is a quiz: What is the source of this screenshot?

I suppose, but there's a major false equivalency going on when people are suggesting simply hitting the "zoom" button on a 4:3 release on a widescreen TV is the equivalent, either in terms of picture-quality or framing, of a release using a cropped master.

I don't know about others, but I never suggested that digital zoom is equivalent to optical zoom. What I was trying to say is that zooming is still better for 16:9 fans than... nothing for 4:3 fans. The problem with resolution and sharpness is minimal, compared to the problem with lack of 20% of the picture (isn't it even more with 35 mm film frame?). Especially if we talk about this kind of classic animation shot on 35 mm film. Compare the opening of Dead Zone (DRAGON BALL Z 【オラの悟飯をかえせッ!!】) from Dragon Box: The Movies with the opening of the first Dragon Ball Z episode from the Level sets. When I look at those shots, I think that any further zooming makes no sense with this source. I bet many people would say that even the improvement on the Levels is minimal.

You would gain some sharpness and less artifacts with optical zoom, but definitely not more detail. Losing significant amount of the picture is still bigger problem.

There are examples in Z movie 3 beyond the Masenko that the staff seemed to be privileging the cropped format. As Bulma, Kuririn and Oolong make their wish to Shen-Long, for example, they're literally standing on nothing. There's no ground drawn in. The forest background simply extends past their feet. While most shots in the movie aren't so egregious, they do tend to be framed very carefully for 16:9, with a lot of dead space in the top and bottom of the frame. I don't think it'd be a difficult argument to say that the cropped aspect ratio adheres more naturally to visual conventions, standard framing practices, etc. (Shots framed to adhere nicely to the rule of thirds when cropped, but rendered as quadrants or just all the hell over the place when unmatted.)

Off the top of my head, while I don't remember it containing any outright errors, I remember being firmly in the camp that Movie 7's framing vastly benefited from the cropping as well. At the cost of losing some of the art, the movie's visuals suddenly cohered in a way I never though they had on the 4:3 release I was used to.

Thanks for guiding me! I will check those scenes (those are the posts that motivate me to stay active among the fanbase).

Would be fun if someone checked each movie for whether it favored 16:9 or 4:3.

I would do it myself, but I don't have access to square releases...

Here's another example of 4:3 issues...
[spoiler]

if anyone wants to check their DVD's..I noticed you can see where the cel and background ends (see bottom)

[/spoiler]

Good one! So we have Masenkō and this against all other scenes in the movies so far

[Robo4900]

In a perfect world for niche media, there'd be a release that includes both.

Which is why I advocate a 4:3 version so aggressively -- a 4:3 version effectively contains both; if you prefer watching in 4:3, you leave it as is, but if you prefer watching cropped, you can just set your TV to crop it. There is literally no downside to this other than maybe 2 or 3 shots having animation mistakes... Across 17 movies. Most of which seem to be from Tree Of Might.

And regarding TV zoom vs optical zoom, I think Kojiro put it best...

I don't know about others, but I never suggested that digital zoom is equivalent to optical zoom. What I was trying to say is that zooming is still better for 16:9 fans than... nothing for 4:3 fans. The problem with resolution and sharpness is minimal, compared to the problem with lack of 20% of the picture (isn't it even more with 35 mm film frame?). Especially if we talk about this kind of classic animation shot on 35 mm film. Compare the opening of Dead Zone (DRAGON BALL Z 【オラの悟飯をかえせッ!!】) from Dragon Box: The Movies with the opening of the first Dragon Ball Z episode from the Level sets. When I look at those shots, I think that any further zooming makes no sense with this source. I bet many people would say that even the improvement on the Levels is minimal.

You would gain some sharpness and less artifacts with optical zoom, but definitely not more detail. Losing significant amount of the picture is still bigger problem.

[goku83]

Here's another example of 4:3 issues...

if anyone wants to check their DVD's..I noticed you can see where the cel and background ends (see bottom)

OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! a widescreen issue O_o" it's not the issue the reason why movies are released on 16/9.
It's just like movies were shown in japan on Theater so they crop them to widescreen it's nothing more than that.
If you are movies fan some movies of matrix for example was shot in 4/3 and crop for theater

[Cipher]

Which is why I advocate a 4:3 version so aggressively -- a 4:3 version effectively contains both; if you prefer watching in 4:3, you leave it as is, but if you prefer watching cropped, you can just set your TV to crop it. There is literally no downside to this other than maybe 2 or 3 shots having animation mistakes... Across 17 movies. Most of which seem to be from Tree Of Might.

Cropping it via ... TV zoom? I'm not sure for the life of me how members claiming to care about picture quality can say with a straight face that, given current home media technology, at least, it's the equivalent of optical zoom. Like, seriously? It's like encouraging someone to blow up a JPEG. Or maybe you guys just have much better TVs than I do; I don't know.

I would absolutely support releases including both matted and open-matte transfers though, especially given these are 45-minute films.

I also want to make clear above that we're not just talking about incomplete shots that become obvious with the open matte when we're talking about the merits of either framing. I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea that more art automatically means "better." Again, I think Movie 3 is a prime example even in its non-incomplete shots of a Dragon Ball Z movie that clearly favors matting. There are conventions to framing shots (considering thirds, centering, quads, angles, etc.) that seem to have been considered for the matted presentation but are compromised when viewed open-matte. It's a distraction to realize the top and bottom of the frames are seldom meant to be taken into consideration.

I'm not saying each movie in the series so obviously favors 16:9 cropping, and there are some for which I might argue the opposite, but we have to drop this hard-line "4:3 is better because it has more."

[ABED]

What are the pros of them animating 4:3, but cropping to widescreen? Why aren't they animating it widescreen from the get go?

[GokuTheMaster389]

Can anyone confirm if Goku's left arm in this screenshot is the same in the home releases of Resurrection 'F'?

[spoiler]Source: http://www.dragonballz.com/resurrectionf
[/spoiler]

I know this isn't really relevant to the discussion, but I thought it would be appropriate to ask here than reviving an old thread. Sorry about that.

[Nejishiki]

You didn't provide the exact time stamp so I hope my screen capture is sufficient. I'm capturing from the DVD counterpart of the collector's edition of Resurrection F.[spoiler][/spoiler]