Cell vs Buu: which arc was more seemless in shifting gears?

[ABED]

seemed much more natural... than Seeing the Tone change in Boo Arc from saiyaman adventure to Tenkaichi Budokai to finally Boo arc.

How? It happened gradually and given that the Cell arc brought things to an end, it makes sense that the beginning of a new story would begin where everything is settled down before things ramped up.

[LuckyCat]

The problem with the Buu arc is that there's too much emphasis on Gohan and Videl at the beginning, without it leading to a good payoff. It was especially jarring if you were watching the original anime with the "We Gotta Power" opening that made it look like you were watching a show about Gohan's adult adventures. It didn't help that Goku admitted halfway through the saga that he was more interested in seeing his kids take out Majin Buu than handle things himself. Yet Goku's sentiment is not at all how the arc played out.

Just for an exercise, try to summarize the Buu saga in a sentence or even a short paragraph. I'd wager you'd end up writing entirely about Goku, Vegeta, Buu and Fusion. That's the Buu story. Gohan's adventures with Videl are just a side story with about as much importance as the Z fighters training on Kai's planet in Freeza saga.

The Cell saga, for all its own problems, was at least consistent with Gero's revenge being the main story with a thematic emphasis on the younger warriors gaining hope for a better future by learning from Goku.

[ABED]

The problem with the Buu arc is that there's too much emphasis on Gohan and Videl at the beginning, without it leading to a good payoff. It was especially jarring if you were watching the original anime with the "We Gotta Power" opening that made it look like you were watching a show about Gohan's adult adventures. It didn't help that Goku admitted halfway through the saga that he was more interested in seeing his kids take out Majin Buu than handle things himself. Yet Goku's sentiment is not at all how the arc played out.

Just for an exercise, try to summarize the Buu saga in a sentence or even a short paragraph. I'd wager you'd end up writing entirely about Goku, Vegeta, Buu and Fusion. That's the Buu story. Gohan's adventures with Videl are just a side story with about as much importance as the Z fighters training on Kai's planet in Freeza saga.

The Cell saga, for all its own problems, was at least consistent with Gero's revenge being the main story with a thematic emphasis on the younger warriors gaining hope for a better future by learning from Goku.

You don't think them becoming a couple was a good enough payoff?

[LuckyCat]

You don't think them becoming a couple was a good enough payoff?

The payoff itself works fine in its own contained arc, but I don't think it added anything to the story about Majin Buu. By the time Majin Buu resurrects, Gohan and Videl are basically a couple so that plotline has resolved. Compare that to the romance between Krillin and #18, which is actually threaded into the Android and Cell arcs and only comes to fruition at the end of the story after Krillin's constant efforts to save #18.

[ABED]

You don't think them becoming a couple was a good enough payoff?

The payoff itself works fine in its own contained arc, but I don't think it added anything to the story about Majin Buu. By the time Majin Buu resurrects, Gohan and Videl are basically a couple so that plotline has resolved. Compare that to the romance between Krillin and #18, which is actually threaded into the Android and Cell arcs and only comes to fruition at the end of the story after Krillin's constant efforts to save #18.

Why would it have to be its own self contained arc instead of character arcs within the larger story arc?

18 was one of the antagonists. It's an inherently different story and if the payoff is Gohan and Videl getting together, I'd say mission accomplished, unless you wanted to see them drag it out until the end.

[LuckyCat]

Why would it have to be its own self contained arc instead of character arcs within the larger story arc?

That's a good question and it's better directed at Toriyama. Why did Gohan's story thread with Videl kick off a saga about Goku and Vegeta squaring away their differences and stopping an ancient evil? I don't see the connection. I think there is a connection between Trunks and Goten at least because their fusion and teamwork foreshadows what their fathers can do together. Like others have mentioned here, I think the story could've benefited from having Gohan get some sort of retribution for the crimes Babidi committed with his henchmen against Gohan and Videl (which could've woven the beginning arc to the middle or end of the saga), but that never happens.

[ABED]

Why would it have to be its own self contained arc instead of character arcs within the larger story arc?

That's a good question and it's better directed at Toriyama. Why did Gohan's story thread with Videl kick off a saga about Goku and Vegeta squaring away their differences and stopping an ancient evil? I don't see the connection. I think there is a connection between Trunks and Goten at least because their fusion and teamwork foreshadows what their fathers can do together. Like others have mentioned here, I think the story could've benefited from having Gohan get some sort of retribution for the crimes Babidi committed with his henchmen against Gohan and Videl (which could've woven the beginning to the middle or end of the saga), but that never happens.

You were the one that brought it up, so it's a question that's best answered by you. Why does it make more sense for it to be its own arc than one story arc within the larger story?

[Ripper 30]

seemed much more natural... than Seeing the Tone change in Boo Arc from saiyaman adventure to Tenkaichi Budokai to finally Boo arc.

How? It happened gradually and given that the Cell arc brought things to an end, it makes sense that the beginning of a new story would begin where everything is settled down before things ramped up.

Yes but it kinda fitted the tone a little more in Cell Arc because they were already under the terror of androids and then we have the final and ultimate creation of Gero that Cell was so it's like Cell Introduction fitted the story much better because the fighters were ready for androids attack and introduction of a mysterious creature like cell fitted perfectly with that scenario.

[ABED]

But there's not one tone. Stories can switch tones or things can get more dire as the story progresses. The two arcs are two different stories. There's no right or wrong here.

[Ripper 30]

But there's not one tone. Stories can switch tones or things can get more dire as the story progresses. The two arcs are two different stories. There's no right or wrong here.

yeah, you are right since in Dragon Ball, Tone can change at anytime but i personally find Cell arc tone change a little better but overall both arcs are enjoyable.

[ABED]

The tone barely changed in the Cell arc. It's pretty ominous from beginning to end.

[Tombstone1988]

The answer, in my opinion, changes a bit depending on whether or not you're talking about the anime or the manga.

In regards to the anime, I feel the Cell arc was a lot more natural in its progression. It felt like point A flowed into B, which went to C and so on. The change from 19 and 20, to 16, 17 and 18, to finally Cell didn't seem at all out of place here. In the Buu arc, things were certainly more disjointed in the shifting of various elements. Tonally, it went from comedy to action, then back to comedy, and then back to action. In terms of plot, I'd agree the Saiyaman stuff didn't flow as logically into the Buu stuff as it could've, but once we were at the tournament things tended to flow alright.

In regards to the manga, things aren't as black and white. As Doctor mentioned, the mention of 19 and 20 made the transition in the manga more forced than in the anime. I also recall there being something that irked me with regards to Cell, but as I'm drawing a blank, it could just be faulty memory. The Buu arc played it fairly similarly in the manga as it did in the anime, but there was less filler, meaning certain events (example: Vegito vs. Buuhan) actually flowed a little better, in my opinion. Saying that, I'd still give the Cell arc a slight edge in the manga.

[ABED]

I'd agree the Saiyaman stuff didn't flow as logically into the Buu stuff as it could've, but once we were at the tournament things tended to flow alright.

I don't understand this at all. It's not like it went from zero to 60. It gradually shifted tones over the course of dozens of episodes. Where was the lack of flow? You want to see a HUGE tonal shift, watch the end of the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai.

When people talk about flow, what are you looking for?

[MR.Mark]

The problem with the Buu arc is that there's too much emphasis on Gohan and Videl at the beginning, without it leading to a good payoff. It was especially jarring if you were watching the original anime with the "We Gotta Power" opening that made it look like you were watching a show about Gohan's adult adventures. It didn't help that Goku admitted halfway through the saga that he was more interested in seeing his kids take out Majin Buu than handle things himself. Yet Goku's sentiment is not at all how the arc played out.

Just for an exercise, try to summarize the Buu saga in a sentence or even a short paragraph. I'd wager you'd end up writing entirely about Goku, Vegeta, Buu and Fusion. That's the Buu story. Gohan's adventures with Videl are just a side story with about as much importance as the Z fighters training on Kai's planet in Freeza saga.

The Cell saga, for all its own problems, was at least consistent with Gero's revenge being the main story with a thematic emphasis on the younger warriors gaining hope for a better future by learning from Goku.

I love Gohan and Videl as a couple but I agree in the long run they could of just as easily met at the tournament somehow. Great Saiyaman is not one of Toriyama's best gag inventions, I'd say the Ginyu were funnier. Or have Gohan meet Videl briefly in a short scene of his high school life, then he joins the tournament upon learning his father is coming back. Then Gohan comes up with Great Saiyaman just as a stage name at the tournament so he can have a normal high school life instead of the fighting crime bit.

However I do love that the tournament was interrupted to get the Buu arc going, it added a sense of urgency and mystery. However once Vegeta sacrifices himself the arc just is all over the place.