Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

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Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by Totamo » Wed May 10, 2017 1:52 am

Like they were written by the same person and the same time period, why is the quality such a drastic shift?

Any theories?

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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by mute_proxy » Wed May 10, 2017 1:54 am

It wasnt bad, it was unnecessary and it messes with the previously established lore.

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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by DHM211 » Wed May 10, 2017 1:59 am

Jacos manga dosent retcon a beloved tv special.

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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by nickzambuto » Wed May 10, 2017 2:41 am

Jaco was written out of inspiration. Minus was written out of mandate. Toriyama put effort into making Jaco enjoyable, but Minus he just sorta crapped out without thinking too much.

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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Wed May 10, 2017 6:15 am

Because Jaco was more than just a bonus chapter, Minus would have been much different (hopefully for the better) if he had more to work instead of It being a bonus chapter at the end of the book. Would Jaco have been as good if it was just a single chapter?

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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Wed May 10, 2017 6:18 am

Jaco is a series that takes its time to introduce and develop its characters and story. It actually has characters and a story. Dragon Ball Minus does not have either of those things. It is nothing more than check boxes on a list of "things that happened in the past" that are actually drawn in comic form without any regard to developing characters or weaving an actual narrative together. Literally a quarter of its panel space is wasted on pointless character cameos or cutaways. And did I mention it has no story?
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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by HeroR » Wed May 10, 2017 10:15 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Because Jaco was more than just a bonus chapter, Minus would have been much different (hopefully for the better) if he had more to work instead of It being a bonus chapter at the end of the book. Would Jaco have been as good if it was just a single chapter?
Pretty much. Minus suffers the same issue as History of Trunks bonus chapter in the original manga. Read and then compared it to the TV special.
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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Wed May 10, 2017 10:19 am

Jaco was a fun fresh character, and while he is kind of a retcon in the DB world (ie Bulma having a sister) but nothing that would contradict the overall story. Minus on the other not only contradicts what happens in the special, but made Bardock into a character that took away anything that made him interesting. I mean it was nice to see Goku's mom, but she really didn't add much to the series.
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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by Draconic » Wed May 10, 2017 10:41 am

Because Minus is just a special chapter, one judged way to harshly at that, which is only there to introduce Goku's mother. Everything outside that is padding, cameos or references used in order to actually fill a comic.

Jaco is a full on series, with a story to tell.

Reverse the roles and have Minus be a series and Jaco be just a side thing meant to reveal Bulma has a sister and let's see how they turn out.
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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Wed May 10, 2017 2:51 pm

I wouldn't even call Minus bad, it didn't even do enough to be classified that way. It's just a random assortment of pages that loosely revolves around the events before Planet Vegeta's destruction. As Gaffer Tape said in his recent dissection, "It's not even a story". The question to ask here isn't "Why is it bad?", but rather, "Why does this even exist?"
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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by Cipher » Wed May 10, 2017 2:54 pm

Because one is a character-centric comedy with room to move in whatever direction it pleases, and the other is designed from the ground up to serve as a fifteen-page prequel without a narrative of its own.

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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed May 10, 2017 3:33 pm

Jaco The Galactic Patrolman worked so well because it had much more time to tell an actual story with fleshed out characters. Dragon Ball Minus fails in nearly aspect because much like Gaffer Tape stated, it feesl much less like a story with fleshed out characters and more of a glorified checklist.

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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by Esfír Dedragón » Wed May 10, 2017 10:06 pm

I haven't read Jaco, but when I found out that it was about an older sister of Bulma, I immediately lost interest in it and whether or not it's bad depends on your suspension of disbelief of yet ANOTHER unmentioned sibling.

It should have been an unrelated, stand-alone work instead of a prequel-PREQUEL to Dragon Ball.
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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Wed May 10, 2017 10:22 pm

Esfír Dedragón wrote:I haven't read Jaco, but when I found out that it was about an older sister of Bulma, I immediately lost interest in it and whether or not it's bad depends on your suspension of disbelief of yet ANOTHER unmentioned sibling.
It isn't about Bulma's older sister, she's easily the least important of Jaco's main trio. You should give it a read sometime, it's a fun side story and you can knock it out in an hour, easy. The relationship to Bulma's family isn't even jarring.
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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by Chuquita » Wed May 10, 2017 10:26 pm

Tights being Bulma's older sister didn't bother me. Relatives that move far away that you rarely ever hear from are not as unusual as one might think.

Minus is way too short for the story it was trying to tell. It would've been better served by instead of a rushed single chapter replacing that with just a character design sheet for Gine along with a summary about her character (since she seems to be the only big point to Minus) OR by going in the opposite direction and doing an entire volume fleshing out life on Planet Vegeta some more (which I can't see happening really because Toriyama seems to lack interest in it).
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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by sintzu » Wed May 10, 2017 10:51 pm

Chuquita wrote:OR by going in the opposite direction and doing an entire volume fleshing out life on Planet Vegeta some more (which I can't see happening really because Toriyama seems to lack interest in it).
They should've just let someone else do it if he didn't want to.
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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by Chuquita » Wed May 10, 2017 11:04 pm

sintzu wrote:
Chuquita wrote:OR by going in the opposite direction and doing an entire volume fleshing out life on Planet Vegeta some more (which I can't see happening really because Toriyama seems to lack interest in it).
They should've just let someone else do it if he didn't want to.
I agree. And now that Shueisha is hiring more manga artists to do Dragon Ball content, I'd still like to see them have someone take on a life on Planet Vegeta manga in an official capacity.
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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by Jinzoningen MULE » Wed May 10, 2017 11:07 pm

Chuquita wrote:
sintzu wrote:
Chuquita wrote:OR by going in the opposite direction and doing an entire volume fleshing out life on Planet Vegeta some more (which I can't see happening really because Toriyama seems to lack interest in it).
They should've just let someone else do it if he didn't want to.
I agree. And now that Shueisha is hiring more manga artists to do Dragon Ball content, I'd still like to see them have someone take on a life on Planet Vegeta manga in an official capacity.
The thing with Jaco is that it was a brand new (Dragon Ball) story penned and drawn by the author himself. DBM was meant to serve as an additional incentive for Jaco, and that doesn't really work if an imitation is the one behind Minus.
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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by Chuquita » Wed May 10, 2017 11:27 pm

Maybe having just a character design and summary for Gine by Toriyama instead would've worked out better then?
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Re: Why is the Jaco manga good but Dragon ball Minus bad?

Post by WittyUsername » Thu May 11, 2017 1:51 am

Chuquita wrote:Maybe having just a character design and summary for Gine by Toriyama instead would've worked out better then?
If it was really that important that fans learn who Goku's mom is, that probably would've been for the best.

Frankly though, I still wish that Toriyama would've just left Goku's backstory alone. I know he didn't write the Bardock special, but he apparently loved it enough to incorporate the character into the manga, so why go through the trouble of retconning it with a story that pretty much everyone agrees is inferior?

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