Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

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Puaru
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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by Puaru » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:20 am

I never know what to say when these kind of political/social discussions turn up because I hate progressivism, but I hate regressivism even more. I also hate it when people claim that the status quo is "good enough".

So basically I hate every viewpoint, and anything I could say about issues like gender representation would make me wanna kick my own ass.

I hope I'm making sense.

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by Doctor. » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:47 am

rereboy wrote:Exactly. Only, I'm not Doctor :lol:
We're both portuguese so clearly we're the same person. This racism needs to stop!

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by rereboy » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:05 am

Doctor. wrote:
rereboy wrote:Exactly. Only, I'm not Doctor :lol:
We're both portuguese so clearly we're the same person. This racism needs to stop!
:lol:. I'm positively aghast.

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:01 pm

rereboy wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
rereboy wrote:Exactly. Only, I'm not Doctor :lol:
We're both portuguese so clearly we're the same person. This racism needs to stop!
:lol:. I'm positively aghast.
That's right! You French speaking bastards keep taking all our jobs!

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:09 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
rereboy wrote:
Doctor. wrote: We're both portuguese so clearly we're the same person. This racism needs to stop!
:lol:. I'm positively aghast.
That's right! You French speaking bastards keep taking all our jobs!

Image
Isn't Portuguese closer to Spanish than French?
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Mon Jun 05, 2017 4:24 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:We know that two female Saiyans have been introduced to Super and both are Super Saiyans... something fans have been clamouring about for years but their asses still aren't satisfied. They still go on tirades about Dragon Ball being sexist and shit like what the fuck do they want?

That's when I drew the conclusion that the fans if anything are the sexist ones...

I mean, they complain about the other females choosing to be housewives. Videl I can understand complaining about because she barely has character now but that has nothing to do with gender.... at least she's shown as a loving, understanding wife and mother. They're even complaining about #18 being a housewife even though she's still shown as much stronger than Krillin and one of the main fighters from Universe 7. They also forget Bulma is like the only human that has consistently remained relevance throughout the entire series even during 2/3 of Super. Don't even get me started on the Chi-Chi hating-ass shit.

Wanna complain about sexism in the series? Go after Toei. After all they created Maron, Pan (GT), and Yurin.
What do you mean people aren't satisfied with the new characters? I feel like your comment here is a strawman over what is actually being said, because you're venting out of a reaction to something that isn't the general consensus, even within that topic. I haven't heard anyone specifically complain about anything in regards to Kale & Caulifla. The expectation people have for female characters in this series is just more visibility and participation in roles beyond housewives, its very very general, the social reflection by the audience's expectations of this series are very low. The most I hear people say, is that they generally want things solely on the sake of them not being in the series already. Thats what the hype for the first female Super Saiyans on screen were about was about for a lot of people. Its just the sake of something new, while others wanted to see some females, considering 99% of most the Saiyans shown are male.

Where as in my analysis, DB doesn't exactly have bad representations of female fighters when they're actually there, they just are rarely there. Toriyama or whoever pulled No. 18 & Zangya out of the blue, and they were already solid characters in regards to the standard. They were well decisions, not overly sexualized, competent fighters. When the series does it, it always does it. Its just that the series seldom does it. I don't hate Pan as much as people claim they do, but what people seem to ignore is that she was held back a lot by her being characterized as an immature 9 year old, and not because she was an annoying female character. Caulifla and Kale on the other hand are not.
Puaru wrote:I never know what to say when these kind of political/social discussions turn up because I hate progressivism, but I hate regressivism even more. I also hate it when people claim that the status quo is "good enough".

So basically I hate every viewpoint, and anything I could say about issues like gender representation would make me wanna kick my own ass.

I hope I'm making sense.
I honestly don't see why wanting better characters or a variety of characters have to be inherently political. Thats the problem when everything in regards to representation is always asserted as some sort of "agenda" simply because people have specific standards against the defenders of the status quo. Its not that hard to bend to, if people are willing to take criticism as what it is, if thoroughly elaborated in a cohesive manner. Colored and Female characters existed prior to this social age, people today analyzing them as far as I know just want the concepts updated, away from narrow archetypes. Its just about better writing. Political feminism is something completely different, which I think is dishonest to generalize just because you happen to be reviewing the quality of female characters in fiction. Progressivism doesn't inherently make good characters on its own standards alone either, if the same essential principles of good writing aren't applied to structure a new concept. That's to me is the reason why Marvel isn't doing what it intends to do very well, but people are blaming the demand, rather than criticizing the end product's flaws - because people assert the discussion of representation into a social sub-culture war, when it doesn't have to be this complicated.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by rereboy » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:51 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
rereboy wrote:
:lol:. I'm positively aghast.
That's right! You French speaking bastards keep taking all our jobs!

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Isn't Portuguese closer to Spanish than French?
Yes. That's probably his intended joke.

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by floofychan333 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:00 pm

Zephyr wrote:
Dbzfan94 wrote:
floofychan333 wrote:I think Dragon Ball is making terrific strides in terms of womens' issues. Kale and Caulifla are exactly what the franchise needs to get into the 21st century and they are redeeming for how horribly Toei treated Chi-Chi in filler.
What exactly do you mean by "getting the franchise into the 21st century"?
He means treating women like people, I'm pretty sure.

Also, I'm really confused. I don't think anyone's saying we should put a gun to Toriyama's head and say "write female characters in a way that will change the status quo in society for the better, or else!" Nobody's advocating force.

Likewise, nobody's saying we need to go "gee Toriyama, we're going to spread vicious rumors about you and your entire family if you don't write female characters in a way that will change the status quo in society for the better!" Nobody's advocating "social pressure" (the word you want is coercion, btw).

Cipher already summed it up perfectly, but I'll super emphasize what I took away to be the really more critical terms that seem to have been missed:
Cipher wrote:Acknowledge, discuss, and hope that both Toriyama and Dragon Ball moving forward continue to offer...the kind of good-natured gender equality that marks the original run....It's okay to praise the good and call out the bad. I don't think there's any reason to not want to see either the property or the authors behind it do better.
Having the hopeful desire for Toriyama to create media that may contribute to helping society improve in the long run has nothing to do with advocating force or coercion be put upon the man in order to ensure said end.
You understand my point perfectly, Zephyr. Though some anime does not portray women as positively as Western media tries to, it's not our business to force Akira Toriyama to do things. I think things work better when we praise Dragon Ball for what it does right while still realizing that it will never be perfect and everything we want it to be, and surely enough, leaving Toriyama to his own devices rather than cramming the desire for more women in the series down his throat has resulted in progress in that respect. If the female SSJs work out well, we will be bound for a more inclusive series if we continue to praise.
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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by floofychan333 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:04 pm

Kojiro Sasaki wrote: Study some Islam and political science.

I have my reasons to do so. I am always called fascist, rascist, xenophobe, homophobe, white supremacist and everything else by the left, even after writing one short sentence, of which only guilt is that it does not heavily bash the current government. Sorry my dear friend - I've tried everything, including extreme politeness and even political correctness - you cannot communicate with most of the left if you aren't the left yourself.
Demonizing an entire religion based on the acts of some reckless individuals is not acceptable. I mean, I'm anti-religion personally but I don't think all religious people are terrible simply because of what they believe. Saying all Muslims are terrorists because of ISIS is like saying every Christian is a member of the KKK. I don't understand how people can make these generalizations and completely ignore the imams that condemn terrorism, the ministers who love and accept their friends that are from racial minorities, the young Muslim men who were awake early for Ramadan when the apartment in London burned and woke people up, therefore saving lives, and the innocent Muslims in Western nations that live in fear of having their hijabs pulled off in public and being assaulted. Additionally, there are almost certainly Kanzenshuu members that are Muslims, and they do not deserve to be harassed on a forum where they come to discuss a franchise that they love. We are here to discuss Dragon Ball, and some people may see this forum as a haven where we don't have to face oppression because of what we believe in, in a world where sectarianism continues. In the end, it really shouldn't matter what racial background we're from, what gender we are, if we're gay or straight or ace, what we believe in, or what our values are, we are all united under our love of the Dragon Ball franchise and we should be able to discuss our shared passion in peace.

Also, though I'm a sucker for political discussion, I think that it's probably better for political topics to be banned because knowing that people disagree with us on political issues tarnishes our experiences. There is already plenty of conflict on this forum and political conflict could be easily avoided since it usually gets to the point where it has nothing to do with Dragon Ball at all.
"All of you. All of you must have KILL all the SEASONS!" -Dough (Tenshinhan), Speedy Dub of Movie 9.

"My opinion of Norihito's Sumitomo's new score is... well, very mixed. The stuff that's good is pretty darn good, but the stuff that's bad makes elevator music sound like Jerry freaking Goldsmith." -Kenisu

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by Kojiro Sasaki » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:40 pm

floofychan333 wrote:Demonizing an entire religion based on the acts of some reckless individuals is not acceptable. I mean, I'm anti-religion personally but I don't think all religious people are terrible simply because of what they believe. Saying all Muslims are terrorists because of ISIS is like saying every Christian is a member of the KKK. I don't understand how people can make these generalizations and completely ignore the imams that condemn terrorism, the ministers who love and accept their friends that are from racial minorities, the young Muslim men who were awake early for Ramadan when the apartment in London burned and woke people up, therefore saving lives, and the innocent Muslims in Western nations that live in fear of having their hijabs pulled off in public and being assaulted. Additionally, there are almost certainly Kanzenshuu members that are Muslims, and they do not deserve to be harassed on a forum where they come to discuss a franchise that they love. We are here to discuss Dragon Ball, and some people may see this forum as a haven where we don't have to face oppression because of what we believe in, in a world where sectarianism continues. In the end, it really shouldn't matter what racial background we're from, what gender we are, if we're gay or straight or ace, what we believe in, or what our values are, we are all united under our love of the Dragon Ball franchise and we should be able to discuss our shared passion in peace.

Also, though I'm a sucker for political discussion, I think that it's probably better for political topics to be banned because knowing that people disagree with us on political issues tarnishes our experiences. There is already plenty of conflict on this forum and political conflict could be easily avoided since it usually gets to the point where it has nothing to do with Dragon Ball at all.
I am getting tired of responding to long posts, which refer to stuff I never wrote... I said: study Islam. Check it out. Get some knowledge to understand it better*. Where is "demonizing entire religion"? Where is "harassment"? This is what I call leftist extremism - fanatically looking for hate everywhere. Equating small problems with big problems also counts here.

* - I recommend Dr. Bill Warner for the beginning.

All our political discussions gave us great evidences, that we cannot communicate, and that we should just drop this topic (I am talking about myself here).

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by Doctor. » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:45 pm

floofychan333 wrote:Demonizing an entire religion based on the acts of some reckless individuals is not acceptable. I mean, I'm anti-religion personally but I don't think all religious people are terrible simply because of what they believe.
Islam as an ideology and its influence on political systems are aspects that are open to criticism. I know this is off-topic, but I think the concept of a "moderate Muslim" is ludicrous, it's like claiming you're a Nazi but you don't think the Jews are all that bad. Why are you aligning yourself with a negative ideology if you're not a bad person? Islam has negative connotations that are inherent to the religion's sacred book, it is stubborn to ignore them and try to disguise the religion as something else just because a large majority of the people who follow it don't happen to be jackasses. Would we stop considering Nazism as something inherently evil if a large group of people identified with it? Would we try to hide the ideology's negative views on minorities because a lot of the people, out of conformity, want a nice, simple label they can use to identify themselves with? If you think the answer to both of those questions is no, and your blood started boiling at the mere thought of Nazism being something accepted in modern society, then surely you recognize the problem.

(And yes, I'm aware that Nazism and Islam aren't identical, but the comparison works well in the context of this analogy.)

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by Zephyr » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:19 pm

Kojiro Sasaki wrote:Where is "demonizing entire religion"?
If you look real closely you'll see it......
Doctor. wrote:I think the concept of a "moderate Muslim" is ludicrous, it's like claiming you're a Nazi but you don't think the Jews are all that bad. Why are you aligning yourself with a negative ideology if you're not a bad person? Islam has negative connotations that are inherent to the religion's sacred book, it is stubborn to ignore them and try to disguise the religion as something else just because a large majority of the people who follow it don't happen to be jackasses.
...right about here.

Most religious people (regardless of faith) were likely introduced, against their will, as children. Implying that they had any choice in the manner is absurd. Books alone do no harm (I mean, unless you physically bludgeon someone with it, but even then, someone has to do the bludgeoning :P). Harm happens when an interpretation of said book gains enough traction to become an ideology which is then used to indoctrinate impressionable young children and desperate angry adults.

What we're dealing with is an interpretation of a book fueling an ideology. This interpretation gained traction because of the stupid crap that the West has been consistently doing in the Middle East, dating back at least as far as the Cold War. Turns out, fucking up an entire region for decades tends to radicalize the people there!

The Nazi comparison makes little sense, because Hitler didn't come along and radicalize an already-existing Nazi culture. Christianity is a more sensible comparison: the book, when interpreted literally, endorses some incredibly absurd shit. In a developed and healthy society, that won't matter, because the society is developed and healthy. Much like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. were, Islam and all, prior to the oil-thirsty US imposing where they shouldn't have been. If the sociological conditions were right, people could use the Bible as an excuse for brutality and warfare....and it has. Unless we're going to pretend that shit like the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem with trials are all spooky fairy tales.

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by Doctor. » Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:36 pm

Zephyr wrote:Most religious people (regardless of faith) were likely introduced, against their will, as children.
And that's the problem. Why is calling attention to this fact a bad thing?
Zephyr wrote:Implying that they had any choice in the manner is absurd.
So they acknowledge they didn't have a choice and when they're given a choice, they still decide to ignore it.
Books alone do no harm (I mean, unless you physically bludgeon someone with it, but even then, someone has to do the bludgeoning :P). Harm happens when an interpretation of said book gains enough traction to become an ideology which is then used to indoctrinate impressionable young children and desperate angry adults.

What we're dealing with is an interpretation of a book fueling an ideology. This interpretation gained traction because of the stupid crap that the West has been consistently doing in the Middle East, dating back at least as far as the Cold War. Turns out, fucking up an entire region for decades tends to radicalize the people there!
This has nothing to do with the West. Islam, and religion in general but luckily Christianity has been neutered in recent times, has been a problem to the progress of civilization since its inception.

I find no problem in demonizing a religion. It's an ideology, it's open to criticism. If I think that ideology is a bad influence, then it deserves to be called out as such. And again, the ideology. If certain people want to base their entire personality and life around that ideology and decide to take offense to that, then that's on them.

When people call Islam evil, they're not calling muslims evil. They're begging muslims to actually read the book and figure out that perhaps some of the accusations thrown against their religion aren't unfounded. The only people who say "All muslims are terrorists" or "All muslims are evil" are the uneducated idiots who shouldn't be relevant in discussions of this kind.
The Nazi comparison makes little sense, because Hitler didn't come along and radicalize an already-existing Nazi culture. Christianity is a more sensible comparison: the book, when interpreted literally, endorses some incredibly absurd shit. In a developed and healthy society, that won't matter, because the society is developed and healthy. Much like Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. were, Islam and all, prior to the oil-thirsty US imposing where they shouldn't have been. If the sociological conditions were right, people could use the Bible as an excuse for brutality and warfare....and it has. Unless we're going to pretend that shit like the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the Salem with trials are all spooky fairy tales.
You seem to be under the impression that Islam was always peaceful and it's this newer generation that's distorting its views. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but where have you been? The book is full of regressive, misogynistic, racist bullshit. Sure, some of it is open to interpretation, but there's a lot of it that's clear-cut (such as being allowed to hit your woman). If you identify as a muslim, then you agree with everything in the book, whether you realize it or not. And, as such, you're justifying the acts of the people who actually take the Qu'ran's statements to heart and follow them through. And if you don't agree with everything in the book, then you're not a muslim, because that's what the religion is centered around: profound loyalty to the teachings of the Qu'ran.

Muslims are peaceful, Islam is not. I cannot stress this point enough.

People always compare Islam to Christianity, but it's the same exact thing. They're both awful, despicable ideologies that a lot of people cling on to for conformity's sake. People don't identify as Christians because they agree with the Bible, they identify as Christians because they can't be bothered to do their own research and think for themselves that maybe, just maybe, the ideology they're defending is a bit fucked up. The only difference is that Christianity gets a pass because the Church is no longer tied to the Government in a majority of the countries in the world, while Islam's twisted teachings are still very much influencing middle-eastern countries today. That's why Christianity's terrible stuff is largely ignored now, whilst Islam is coming under fire.

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by Kojiro Sasaki » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:31 pm

Zephyr wrote:
Kojiro Sasaki wrote:Where is "demonizing entire religion"?
If you look real closely you'll see it......
Doctor. wrote:I think the concept of a "moderate Muslim" is ludicrous, it's like claiming you're a Nazi but you don't think the Jews are all that bad. Why are you aligning yourself with a negative ideology if you're not a bad person? Islam has negative connotations that are inherent to the religion's sacred book, it is stubborn to ignore them and try to disguise the religion as something else just because a large majority of the people who follow it don't happen to be jackasses.
...right about here.
But... did I write it? :P
Zephyr wrote:The Nazi comparison makes little sense, because Hitler didn't come along and radicalize an already-existing Nazi culture.
Germans were already-existing. They voted for Hitler. Millions of them supported him. Not only Hitler was Nazi. Many times I've seen attempts to just blame the ideology not the people, and I find it heavily immoral. Maybe I am overreacting to what you wrote - I know this part of the history pretty well, some of my family members were killed, and I've heard many private stories - this makes you more sensitive. Sometimes oversensitive.

As to all other things you guys wrote, it seems that I have completely different views and knowledge. I can only say: I recommend Dr. Bill Warner :D Check his works - it's really worth the effort.

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:12 pm

Kojiro Sasaki wrote: Germans were already-existing. They voted for Hitler. Millions of them supported him. Not only Hitler was Nazi. Many times I've seen attempts to just blame the ideology not the people, and I find it heavily immoral. Maybe I am overreacting to what you wrote - I know this part of the history pretty well, some of my family members were killed, and I've heard many private stories - this makes you more sensitive. Sometimes oversensitive.

As to all other things you guys wrote, it seems that I have completely different views and knowledge. I can only say: I recommend Dr. Bill Warner :D Check his works - it's really worth the effort.
While some Germans voted for Hitler, they never elected him. Hitler was appointed chancellor by Hindenburg, and succeeded him after his death.

As for Warner, the man has no historical, religious, or political science credentials, does not (or did not; I'm not up-to-date with whatever he's come out with recently) acknowledge different factions within Islam itself, instead focusing primarily on pan-Islamism, he doesn't differentiate between culture and religion (probably due to not actually being trained to study these things).

If you want history, look for a historian. If you want political science, look to a political scientist. Don't follow some hack who wrote a book and hosts conspiracy theories on his website.
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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by Kojiro Sasaki » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:51 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:While some Germans voted for Hitler, they never elected him. Hitler was appointed chancellor by Hindenburg, and succeeded him after his death.
NSDAP was elected by the people. It was supported by the people.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:As for Warner, the man has no historical, religious, or political science credentials, does not (or did not; I'm not up-to-date with whatever he's come out with recently) acknowledge different factions within Islam itself, instead focusing primarily on pan-Islamism, he doesn't differentiate between culture and religion (probably due to not actually being trained to study these things).
Have you studied all of his works? I still consider him a great expert. There are many great experts out there, who do not have specific degree, but they do really good job.

I personally do not look only on the degree. You need to study various sources and compare it to reality, which surrounds you - this is my method. By the way, degree in mathematics and physics is good for doing research on ideologies, political science and this kind of stuff. Analytic/mathematic thinking is very important here. He studied Islam for ~30 years - I wouldn't just dismiss it like this. Especially, when his theories are similar to what other scientists are saying.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:If you want history, look for a historian. If you want political science, look to a political scientist. Don't follow some hack who wrote a book and hosts conspiracy theories on his website.
We have our experts here, and they mostly agree with Bill Warner. He was only an example for the beginning. I picked him, because his views are +- as all other materials I ever studied. I'm not sure if it makes sense to make long list of materials for Kanzenshuu post :P

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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by Zephyr » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:23 am

Kojiro Sasaki wrote:Germans were already-existing. They voted for Hitler. Millions of them supported him. Not only Hitler was Nazi. Many times I've seen attempts to just blame the ideology not the people, and I find it heavily immoral.
The analogy was between Muslims and Nazis, not Muslims and Germans.
Kojiro Sasaki wrote:I can only say: I recommend Dr. Bill Warner :D Check his works - it's really worth the effort.
I can only quote Albert Einstein (my emphasis):
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
Doctor. wrote:
Zephyr wrote:Most religious people (regardless of faith) were likely introduced, against their will, as children.
And that's the problem. Why is calling attention to this fact a bad thing?
I never said it was a bad thing. Calling attention to this is a good thing. Adults brainwashing children in religious institutions is something I am vehemently against, regardless of the faith.
Doctor. wrote:
Zephyr wrote:Implying that they had any choice in the manner is absurd.
So they acknowledge they didn't have a choice and when they're given a choice, they still decide to ignore it.
By the time they are given the choice, they've already been brainwashed. Their ability to reason about this stuff objectively has been significantly compromised. You can't just expect them to snap out of it on their own.
Doctor. wrote:I find no problem in demonizing a religion. It's an ideology, it's open to criticism. If I think that ideology is a bad influence, then it deserves to be called out as such.
You can criticize something without demonizing it. Demonizing things is never rational, and is always hyperbolic.
Doctor. wrote:If I think that ideology is a bad influence, then it deserves to be called out as such. And again, the ideology.
Yes, the ideology, not the religion that said ideology is just one of many within. But you're not merely attacking the ideology. You're conflating this specific ideology with the larger religion as a whole, and using this error in reasoning to justify attacking the entire religion.
Doctor. wrote:You seem to be under the impression that Islam was always peaceful and it's this newer generation that's distorting its views. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but where have you been? The book is full of regressive, misogynistic, racist bullshit.
Yes, and so is the Bible. But guess what? You can have an interpretation of the text that doesn't take those parts literally, and build an ideology around that. Kind of like we have in the West.
Doctor. wrote:If you identify as a muslim, then you agree with everything in the book, whether you realize it or not.
You don't have the authority to decide what the nature of another person's religious beliefs entail, whether you realize it or not.
Doctor. wrote:This has nothing to do with the West
Doctor. wrote:You seem to be under the impression that Islam was always peaceful and it's this newer generation that's distorting its views. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but where have you been?
No, I'm sorry, but where the fuck have you been? It has fucking everything to do with the West. We funded the group that went on to become the Taliban. We put Saddam in power. We created the power vacuum that gave way to ISIS. Have you seen the pictures of Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq before we started fucking everything up? You have to bury your head in the sand and cover your ears in order to sincerely try to pin this on a fucking book. Arming warlords and putting despots into power is a far more important sociological factor when it comes to generating and popularizing a radical ideology that champions violence. If it wasn't, then women wouldn't have been see wearing dresses in colleges in these countries prior to us arming these warlords and putting these dictators into power (you know, a point in time where the stupid shit the book says wasn't enough to push people to violence).

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Kojiro Sasaki
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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by Kojiro Sasaki » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:35 am

What I wanted to say was that Nazis were the people, not an ideology floating in the air, their nationality was German (and Austrian), and that there were some serious and complicated reasons, why they did what they did.
Zephyr wrote:I can only quote Albert Einstein (my emphasis):
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
And seriously - let's keep it that way! I have no idea, so I will stay quiet :P
As they say, I will just go back to my cave - there are some exclusive caves, where I feel really good!
Last edited by Kojiro Sasaki on Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Neo-Makaiōshin
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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:40 am

I am lost, what's the relation between communism, religion, international conflicts, Nationalism and the topic of feminism and Dragon Ball?
Lore is NOT story, and it never was, and you should stop spreading this nonsense.
Content is NOT substance.
Bunch of characters doing stuff do NOT make an esemble cast.
Secondary characters are secondary, they do NOT deserve or are entitled to having more screen time.
Fandom Lacks Critical Thinking and is Easily Impressionable with Surface Level Content.

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Kojiro Sasaki
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Re: Dragon Ball and "Feminism"

Post by Kojiro Sasaki » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:42 am

Neo-Makaiōshin wrote:I am lost, what's the relation between communism, religion, international conflicts, Nationalism and the topic of feminism and Dragon Ball?
I was lost long ago, so I'm with you :crazy:

(by the way, don't ask about the relation, because you may get another 10000 posts)

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