A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:24 pm

Well there are the people who call you a "weeaboo" for having any interest at all in any anime/manga. But no one takes them seriously.
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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:54 pm

My general attitude is to treat anime as exactly what it is: Japanese cartoons, typically made with a more mature audience in mind. The only time I get made fun of for it is when I'm joking around with some of my friends, and the insults are never meant with any shred of honesty.

Anyway, I'm quite the animation buff anyway; ask me about my favourite TV shows, and half of them will probably be animated. This isn't some secret, everyone who knows me knows I'm a big cartoon fan. Anime is just another type of cartoon. And sure, the mix of anime, and miscellaneous video games and such have given me an interest in Japanese culture(Hell, I've actually started learning the kana symbols to aid my future plans to learn Japanese), but that's not all there is to me. If it was, I'd be a pretty boring person. I like cartoons, music, movies, puzzles, computers, film production, history... If someone were to walk up to me and tell me off, saying I'm a weeb or whatever for watching anime subbed, I'd ask them to kindly shove off, as they don't know me, and clearly have no idea what they're talking about.

I really don't see why this should be an issue anyway. Anime shows like Dragon Ball were originally produced in Japanese, and that's how I prefer to watch them. I don't see how that's even remotely a bad thing. And anyway, looking at things from the point of view of another culture should, in theory at least, broaden your perspective. Even if you disagree with the conclusions reached, it gives you a greater understanding of the matter at hand.
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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by floofychan333 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:12 pm

My buddies call me a weeb because I like anime even though I respect Japanese culture and don't adopt it as my own. I have taken a strong interest in Japanese media (most notably Dragon Ball), food, and the language, which I am learning. However, I'm not an idiot and I know that Japan isn't some holy land where everyone bows down to the almighty statue of Hatsune Miku, the Empress of Japan. (I'm pretty sure some people think that)
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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by funrush » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:30 pm

Kid Buu wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:noteworthy military invasions/occupations) that has largely persisted between both countries up to this very day.
Heck, Dragon Ball itself is based on a Chinese tale (Journey to the West).
This is why I think accusations of cultural appropriation are for the most part bull. Nothing is created without inspiration from other things. You can't just shut yourself away from huge parts of our now inter-connected world.

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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by Cipher » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:42 am

funrush wrote:This is why I think accusations of cultural appropriation are for the most part bull. Nothing is created without inspiration from other things. You can't just shut yourself away from huge parts of our now inter-connected world.
To say that is to ignore the power dynamics surrounding the type of cultural appropriation people actually take issue with.

A cultural exchange is one thing.

But for an oppressing or majority group to take, at liberty, the elements of a culture it finds kitschy or endearing despite a history of marginalizing the actual people behind it, or to steal selective bits of pageantry while identifying with none of the hardships such cultural identifiers bring to marginalized groups who can't pick and choose their connection to them, really is antagonistic and thoughtless.

No one's going to get on your case for wanting to learn about another culture, approaching it with respect. To some extent, there's even a difference between hardcore otakudom, at least in the U.S. (though we certainly have some stigmatized history with Japanese-Americans), which is intellectually dishonest and a bit embarrassing, and say, selectively mimicking bits of cultures we marginalize more actively.

But, like, if you're a white person in the U.S. who's thinking about breaking out the Mexican colors and celebrating Cinco de Mayo just so you can get drunk, would you think twice about strolling in your stupor through a majority Latino neighborhood? If so, why? Would that leave you with an inkling of shame? I think we can all recognize it's a bit crappy to flagrantly pick the fun bits out of a marginalized culture when the realities for the people who grow up in it never touch you.

That's the opposite of a thoughtful cultural embrace. It says you aren't considerate enough to place things in context. If you want to get expand your cultural horizons, that's awesome. Respect other cultures; earn the right to take part in them; recognize what is and isn't yours and what the larger social dynamics surrounding your actions might be.

Everything comes in a context. It takes a minimal amount of effort to consider it, and people generally won't take umbrage with you if you're showing the minimal amount of respect.

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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:24 am

To say that is to ignore the power dynamics surrounding the type of cultural appropriation people actually take issue with.

No one's going to get on your case for wanting to learn about another culture, approaching it with respect.
You give some WAY too much credit. You are right about context, but some don't care. One group stopped a yoga class from being taught on a college campus simply because it was being taught by a westerner. Many of the people who take issue with "cultural appropriation" don't care about context. They are just anti-Western culture and will take issue with just about anything even something like a non-Indian teaching yoga to disabled people.
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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by rereboy » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:42 am

EXBadguy wrote:A lot of crazy shit is going on, like the Evergreen College situation, white folks being banned from making tacos at some food truck stops, lyft driver bashed for having a hula doll in his car, social justice madness. All of this makes me wonder, if white subbies and otakus would get flak for cultural appropriation, so I'm wondering if any of you white subbies here were accused or criticized for appropriating Japanese culture for any reason. Now, the reason why I'm only asking the white ones is because in my experience, we minorities can get away with it (I say this as a black man). I've never seen any blacks or hispanics criticized for taking part in Japanese culture.

Anyway, discuss. And I recommend the mods to watch closely if this gets outta hand. And if so, I apologize.
Never seen it. And, no offense, but that seems to be more of a USA thing, since people in the USA strike me as, generally, way more "self-conscious" about race, culture and so on. The whole thing hardly makes sense to me.

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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by Cipher » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:55 am

ABED wrote:You give some WAY too much credit. You are right about context, but some don't care. One group stopped a yoga class from being taught on a college campus simply because it was being taught by a westerner. Many of the people who take issue with "cultural appropriation" don't care about context. They are just anti-Western culture and will take issue with just about anything even something like a non-Indian teaching yoga to disabled people.
Why would I focus an explanation of any belief on minority radicals?

I didn't say, "everyone who has ever claimed to care about cultural appropriation." I was explaining the concept.

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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:33 am

Cipher wrote:
ABED wrote:You give some WAY too much credit. You are right about context, but some don't care. One group stopped a yoga class from being taught on a college campus simply because it was being taught by a westerner. Many of the people who take issue with "cultural appropriation" don't care about context. They are just anti-Western culture and will take issue with just about anything even something like a non-Indian teaching yoga to disabled people.
Why would I focus an explanation of any belief on minority radicals?

I didn't say, "everyone who has ever claimed to care about cultural appropriation." I was explaining the concept.
You said no one, but they are gaining traction. These "minority radicals" are being given legitimacy, so yes, more and more people will get on his case.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by rereboy » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:09 am

There's always radicals of some kind regarding any kind of issue. There has always been. That doesn't mean by it itself they will amount to anything significant or that their "cause" and numbers will just grow and grow in the future.

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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:11 am

rereboy wrote:There's always radicals of some kind regarding any kind of issue. There has always been. That doesn't mean by it itself they will amount to anything significant or that their "cause" and numbers will just grow and grow in the future.
Sadly, I don't think they are considered that radical. The bad ideas like post-modernism being preached to them in college are what's giving rise to these "radicals".
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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by rereboy » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:28 am

ABED wrote:
rereboy wrote:There's always radicals of some kind regarding any kind of issue. There has always been. That doesn't mean by it itself they will amount to anything significant or that their "cause" and numbers will just grow and grow in the future.
Sadly, I don't think they are considered that radical. The bad ideas like post-modernism being preached to them in college are what's giving rise to these "radicals".
Obviously not, since they aren't killing people or anything of the sort. They amount to a kind of somewhat agressive hippie or something like that. Also, post-modernism is generally defined by distrust or skepticism towards ideologies, narratives and universal truths, so, actually, in principle, a good amount of post-modernism should make them reevaluate the truths behind ideologies, including the ones they follow and not the opposite. They are more of typical revolution-thinking people, aka guys, mostly young, that thought that those ideologies are a good idea and that current society is in the wrong, became somewhat obsessed by it and started "cruzading" on their behalf.

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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:55 am

Obviously not, since they aren't killing people or anything of the sort.
So they have to kill to be radical? Their behavior isn't innocuous. They are getting rid of ideas on their campus that they don't agree with and insofar as the universities bow down to them, it emboldens them
Also, post-modernism is generally defined by distrust or skepticism towards ideologies, so, actually, in principle, a good amount of post-modernism should make them reevaluate the truths behind ideologies, including the ones they follow and not the opposite
It's a philosophy that rejects reason, so their behavior is hardly surprising.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by rereboy » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:11 am

ABED wrote:
Obviously not, since they aren't killing people or anything of the sort.
So they have to kill to be radical? Their behavior isn't innocuous. They are getting rid of ideas on their campus that they don't agree with and insofar as the universities bow down to them, it emboldens them
Extremism is more about what you are willing to do to push your ideology than anything else. In a world with plenty of people willing to kill for their ideology is only natural for them to not be considered big radicals at all.

The behavior you are disagreeing with (pushing their ideology) can be seen in just about any ideology, btw. It just depends more on the individuals being more radical about it than the brand of ideology.

And there has always been some of that on universities.
It's a philosophy that rejects reason, so their behavior is hardly surprising.
No, it just distrusts universal truths and, as such, it distrusts reason as a universal truth. In other words, it's skyptical about reason or any other single thing being able to answer everything.

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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:52 am

rereboy wrote:
ABED wrote:
Obviously not, since they aren't killing people or anything of the sort.
So they have to kill to be radical? Their behavior isn't innocuous. They are getting rid of ideas on their campus that they don't agree with and insofar as the universities bow down to them, it emboldens them
Extremism is more about what you are willing to do to push your ideology than anything else. In a world with plenty of people willing to kill for their ideology is only natural for them to not be considered big radicals at all.

The behavior you are disagreeing with (pushing their ideology) can be seen in just about any ideology, btw. It just depends more on the individuals being more radical about it than the brand of ideology.

And there has always been some of that on universities.
It's a philosophy that rejects reason, so their behavior is hardly surprising.
No, it just distrusts universal truths and, as such, it distrusts reason as a universal truth. In other words, it's skyptical about reason or any other single thing being able to answer everything.
Yes, pushing, not persuading.

If you reject reason, what does that leave as a way of dealing with people?
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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by rereboy » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:14 pm

ABED wrote:Yes, pushing, not persuading.

If you reject reason, what does that leave as a way of dealing with people?
But they don't reject reason. They just are skeptical about any given thing having all the answers. In other words, they use reason but they are wary of blindly following it and not seeing anything else.

The key ideas behind post-modernism are skepticism and doubt, and that was formed out of the growing realization that every single ideology, idea, concept, and so on, has limitations, isn't perfect, doesn't answer everything and might even be viewed different between different people.

If someone is blindly following an ideology he is not actually applying the basic ideas behind post-modernism, imo.

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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:43 pm

But that's ridiculous. Blindly following reason is a contradiction. Reason is using facts and logic and our senses, it's the opposite of blindly following. It's our only means of percieving reality. What's the alternative? Faith? Even if they don't reject it wholesale, it's still a rejection. And what principles do they use to determine when they use reason or faith or their emotions?

I think we've taken this off track. To answer the original question, no I've never been accused of cultural appropriation and even if I was, I'd brush it off.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by rereboy » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:06 pm

ABED wrote:But that's ridiculous. Blindly following reason is a contradiction. Reason is using facts and logic and our senses, it's the opposite of blindly following. It's our only means of perceiving reality.
Our mind and way of perceiving reality are imperfect and they even vary slightly from person to person. And from that realization comes the skepticism about reason, or about any other thing, being an universal truth or being the answer to everything.

However, just because something isn't perfect, it doesn't mean that it's useless and shouldn't be used. Realizing that something isn't perfect and being wary of blindly following it is not about the same as rejecting it.

Furthermore, blindly following something, even if it's reason, has the problem of causing the depreciation of other concepts and ideas. For example, feelings are essential for the human experience and often people do things out of feeling rather than it being necessarily the result of a purely logical and intellectual use of reason. And many times that choice can result in a better outcome than what would have probably resulted from just the use of reason... This can happen precisely because of our limitations. However, that obviously doesn't mean that we should reject reason... Like I said, realizing this and having a certain degree of skepticism is not the same as rejecting it.
What's the alternative? Faith? Even if they don't reject it wholesale, it's still a rejection. And what principles do they use to determine when they use reason or faith or their emotions?
It's not a matter of just sticking to an ideology and rejecting the rest. It's about realizing the limitations of all of them. An actual post-modernist still has his own preferences regarding ideas and ideologies, but he always has a certain degree of skepticism about them all, and about all other ideas and ideologies, because he realizes their limitations.

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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by Cipher » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:17 pm

Christianity is a religion about preventing gay people from having equal rights and requiring funerals for aborted fetal tissue.

Islam is about radicalizing you men and women for war.

Conservativism is about privatizing everything and letting poor people die.

Liberalism is about killing the rich.

People like anime so they can cling to another culture and pretend embarrassingly to be Japanese.

You see why when we describe beliefs, organized or otherwise, we don't carve out space for the radical version or every way it's been interpreted by excitable kids under the age of 22? The last half-page of discussion is lightyears away from anything substantial.

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Re: A question to the white subbies (don't worry it's not what you think)

Post by Kojiro Sasaki » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:33 pm

Cipher wrote:Liberalism is about killing the rich.
This actually happened during the Bolshevik revolution and later on in Soviet Union.

Do we know any other situations, where other radical stances you mentioned were applied on mass scale in the 20th-21st century?
(I have no idea how to write what I mean using proper English ... -_-)

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