So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

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Kanassa
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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by Kanassa » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:00 pm

ABED wrote:
LightBing wrote:What was Vegeta if not a recurring villain until mid-Boo arc? Sure, he helped sometimes but he did way more harm than good. He killed innocent people in all the arcs.
Vegeta is more akin to Spike from Buffy. He was a bad guy who gets redeemed. Freeza is becoming like The Joker. He's constantly trotted out no matter how many times he's defeated.
So, in batman terms... Vegeta is Catwoman?
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:06 pm

In a way, yes.
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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by Bullza » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:22 pm

He sort of is, not to the same extent of course but in a way.

I like it too, I've read quite a few of these Shown Battle series and they don't really have that, once they deal with one villain it's on to the next one, it's not like what they do with American comics.

This is the fourth time Frieza has shown up and been dastardly (that's just in canon too). At this point I don't think I'd want to see him killed off again, keep him around, don't overuse him but keep him alive for another story in a couple years or something.

I was u sure who the best villain in this series really was, Frieza or Black (or just Zamasu) but yeah it really is Frieza. The series wouldn't be the same without Frieza.

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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:40 pm

The series wouldn't be worse for not having him either. I like when stories final let go of a villain and move on. Professor Moriarty is shown in only one Sherlock Holmes story because otherwise it made both hero and villain look less effective if neither could finish the other off.
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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by precita » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:29 am

Every major western franchise has that main villain that overshadows any other villains that come after that or defines the franchise:

- Batman as said is Joker

- Superman is Lex Luthor and Darkseid

- X-men is Magneto, and then Apocalypse

- Spiderman is Green Goblin

- Star Wars is Darth Vader

- Ninja Turtles is The Shredder

- Gargoyles is Xanatos


Dragonball and most anime in Japan aren't like western shows that reboot themselves over a million times and focus on the same villains.

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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by Toxin45 » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:12 am

Helps that by the end of super that Frieza gets revived again and goes to rebuild his empire.

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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by Kakarotto92 » Fri May 04, 2018 7:57 am

If anything, he's the Norman Osborn/Green Goblin to Goku's Spider-man.

-Both Norman and Freeza were thought to be killed during a fight with the main character, only to be later revealed that they somehow survived.
-Both killed a character very dear/important to the main character (Gwen Stacy and Kuririn) prompting the later to wish revenge and defeating the villain shortly after.
-Both are such popular and successful villains with the two fandoms that the writers even came up with literal knockoff versions of them when creating new villains (Norman had "Harry Goblin" and Hobgoblin, Freeza had Coola and Frost).
-Both characters completely disappeared from the main canon story for more than 20 years (IRL 20 years, not in-universe) only to be brought back out of nowhere to get revenge against the protagonist (Clone Saga and Revival of F).
-Both are linked to the main character's "origin story" (if you count DB Minus and Bendis "Ultimate" version of Norman Osborn)

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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by Logania » Fri May 04, 2018 5:58 pm

Kakarotto92 wrote:Both killed a character very dear/important to the main character (Gwen Stacy and Kuririn)
Funny, I don't remember Freeza sleeping with Krillin lol
____

You bring up very good comparisons though.
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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by Toxin45 » Fri May 04, 2018 7:51 pm

ABED wrote:The series wouldn't be worse for not having him either. I like when stories final let go of a villain and move on. Professor Moriarty is shown in only one Sherlock Holmes story because otherwise it made both hero and villain look less effective if neither could finish the other off.
Funny that Frieza is revived at the end huh and rebuilding his empire too?

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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by Jackalope89 » Fri May 04, 2018 11:16 pm

Kanassa wrote:
ABED wrote:
LightBing wrote:What was Vegeta if not a recurring villain until mid-Boo arc? Sure, he helped sometimes but he did way more harm than good. He killed innocent people in all the arcs.
Vegeta is more akin to Spike from Buffy. He was a bad guy who gets redeemed. Freeza is becoming like The Joker. He's constantly trotted out no matter how many times he's defeated.
So, in batman terms... Vegeta is Catwoman?
No. Catwoman has always bounced on that grey line. Stealing, but, other than a New52 run which may now have been retconned out of existence where she was a mob boss, she's never done more than that. And, though a criminal, has helped the Bat Family on quite a few occasions over the decades. In fact, in the Golden Age/Earth 2, she even married Batman and the two had a daughter, the original Huntress, Helena Wayne.

Vegeta began straight up evil, no doubt about it. And only over the course of years, and DBZ arcs, did he eventually finally and truly turn good. Selina, in nearly every incarnation (with a bare handful of exceptions), has never been full on evil.

It should be noted that she and Batman are currently engaged with a wedding event coming up.

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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by Toxin45 » Sat May 05, 2018 2:15 pm

Jackalope89 wrote:
Kanassa wrote:
ABED wrote:Vegeta is more akin to Spike from Buffy. He was a bad guy who gets redeemed. Freeza is becoming like The Joker. He's constantly trotted out no matter how many times he's defeated.
So, in batman terms... Vegeta is Catwoman?
No. Catwoman has always bounced on that grey line. Stealing, but, other than a New52 run which may now have been retconned out of existence where she was a mob boss, she's never done more than that. And, though a criminal, has helped the Bat Family on quite a few occasions over the decades. In fact, in the Golden Age/Earth 2, she even married Batman and the two had a daughter, the original Huntress, Helena Wayne.

Vegeta began straight up evil, no doubt about it. And only over the course of years, and DBZ arcs, did he eventually finally and truly turn good. Selina, in nearly every incarnation (with a bare handful of exceptions), has never been full on evil.

It should be noted that she and Batman are currently engaged with a wedding event coming up.
Cool also what are thoughts on this frieza being a recurring villain in the series.

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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by RedRibbonSoldier#42 » Sat May 05, 2018 2:23 pm

He better not. The Joker not being dead is his worst character trait.

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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by ABED » Sat May 05, 2018 2:58 pm

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:He better not. The Joker not being dead is his worst character trait.
That's his worst trait?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by Jackalope89 » Sat May 05, 2018 8:40 pm

Toxin45 wrote:
Jackalope89 wrote:
Kanassa wrote: So, in batman terms... Vegeta is Catwoman?
No. Catwoman has always bounced on that grey line. Stealing, but, other than a New52 run which may now have been retconned out of existence where she was a mob boss, she's never done more than that. And, though a criminal, has helped the Bat Family on quite a few occasions over the decades. In fact, in the Golden Age/Earth 2, she even married Batman and the two had a daughter, the original Huntress, Helena Wayne.

Vegeta began straight up evil, no doubt about it. And only over the course of years, and DBZ arcs, did he eventually finally and truly turn good. Selina, in nearly every incarnation (with a bare handful of exceptions), has never been full on evil.

It should be noted that she and Batman are currently engaged with a wedding event coming up.
Cool also what are thoughts on this frieza being a recurring villain in the series.
An interesting thing that, if handled well, has a lot of potential for future plots, films, games, manga, and the occasional fanfic that tries to redeem him in another life or some such (those already exist though).

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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by Jackalope89 » Sat May 05, 2018 8:42 pm

RedRibbonSoldier#42 wrote:He better not. The Joker not being dead is his worst character trait.
Two words; Shogun Joker.

Image

Plus, weirdly enough, the same week Goku and Freeza teamed up to defeat Jiren to save their universe, Batman and Joker teamed up to defeat a Jokerized Batman (multiverse) to save their universe. No joke.

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Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

Post by Spider-Man » Sat May 05, 2018 10:12 pm

Let's see:
    -They laugh a lot.
      -They have purple as one their main colors.
        -They kill a close friend of the main character.
          -Lastly they are overused.
            Now we need Lex Luthor in the DB universe.

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            Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

            Post by Toxin45 » Sat May 05, 2018 10:32 pm

            Spider-Man wrote:Let's see:
              -They laugh a lot.
                -They have purple as one their main colors.
                  -They kill a close friend of the main character.
                    -Lastly they are overused.
                      Now we need Lex Luthor in the DB universe.
                      Technically Frieza also lex luthor as well.
                      WittyUsername wrote:At this point, I would say yes. Assuming Freeza doesn't turn good by the end of the current arc in Super, he can pretty much be considered Goku's archenemy at this point.
                      He didn't reform though after he was revived by whis.
                      ABED wrote:The series wouldn't be worse for not having him either. I like when stories final let go of a villain and move on. Professor Moriarty is shown in only one Sherlock Holmes story because otherwise it made both hero and villain look less effective if neither could finish the other off.
                      Nah these days it seems Frieza is here to stay now no going back to the old ways now that would be a stupid idea.

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                      Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

                      Post by Weejus » Mon May 14, 2018 2:39 pm

                      Just reading that sentence made me wince. Prefacing this by saying that Freeza is potentially my favourite character, I sincerely hope this is not the case. I don't want Freeza to become an active part of Goku's life because I don't see further conflict between the two benefiting the overall narrative in any way.

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                      Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

                      Post by Toxin45 » Mon May 14, 2018 6:21 pm

                      Weejus wrote:Just reading that sentence made me wince. Prefacing this by saying that Freeza is potentially my favourite character, I sincerely hope this is not the case. I don't want Freeza to become an active part of Goku's life because I don't see further conflict between the two benefiting the overall narrative in any way.
                      Nah it will because the upcoming movie is about the Saiyans and Frieza he pretty much the only recurring villain of the seires at this point.

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                      Re: So has Freeza become "The Joker" of the Dragonball franchise

                      Post by sintzu » Mon May 14, 2018 7:16 pm

                      Toxin45 wrote:
                      Weejus wrote:Just reading that sentence made me wince. Prefacing this by saying that Freeza is potentially my favourite character, I sincerely hope this is not the case. I don't want Freeza to become an active part of Goku's life because I don't see further conflict between the two benefiting the overall narrative in any way.
                      It will because the upcoming movie is about the Saiyans.
                      Which in itself doesn't benefit the overall narrative of DB. I wish they'd hurry up and give us the full picture of what this movie is going to be about as I'm woriied it'll be like RF where it doesn't add anything new or interesting to the lore. We will have waited nearly 4 years for it by the time December comes around and it's clearly taking priority over new concepts so I really hope it's as deep and interesting as the people working on it mad it out to be.
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