Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

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Bullza
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Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by Bullza » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:45 pm

I'm sure when Dragon Ball Super reached Episode 64 there was a thread asking which was the better series. So let's try that again comparing the original 2009 Dragon Ball Kai and Dragon Ball Super to date at 98 episodes a piece.

Technically neither is the full story so it's a suitable enough comparison. Without any bias and being honest which is better? What does one show do better than the other?

For me, without thinking too hard right now because I'm tired, I could probably go either way.

Dragon Ball Kai has the stronger story in my opinion. Dragon Ball Super has had a pretty interesting story which many interesting concept but there wasn't really a whole lot of story to the first three sagas. It only really got going with the Future Trunks saga though I still don't think it's as good as the Android saga story.

The animation was more consistent with Kai. Super has had high and lows with its animation, though it has improved. I do like the consistency but then I do like the stand out moments that Super has in some of the fights.

As for the fights again I'm a bit undecided. Both series handle fights a little differently. There were fewer fights in Kai but they were longer fights on a more important scale. Super doesn't have many long fights at all, aside from Goku vs Beerus and the final fight involving Merged Zamasu there's few multi long episode fights.

The fights in Kai are a bit more samey to me, I don't particularly have a favourite but in Super because the fights are more on the short and sweet side there are more fights that I enjoy.

Kai doesn't really have anything like Vegito vs Merged Zamasu or Goku vs Gohan or Goku and Trunks vs Black and Zamasu, a few minute long fast paced non stop fight with great animation. The fights in Kai are more drawn out and are interiors more.

They've also started to put more emphasis on other things when it comes to fights. It's no longer all about raw power like in Kai,now strategy, teamwork and techniques play a big factor which is a good thing.

So fight wise I'd give the edge to Super. Though the power scaling is really poor and was done far better in Kai.

The music is better in Super.

The way the characters are handled....Goku was done better in Kai, he seems more childish and selfish in Super. Vegeta is treated better in Super and not just a whipping bag.

Kai spread out the screen time much better than Super does where too often the focus is just on Goku though it hasn't been so bad lately. By the time of Super the cast has bloated, old main characters have been pushed aside for new ones.

Both shows have good enough pacing, Kai probably has the better pacing. Super was a little too rushed in some places but overall it's been acceptable.

Overall...it's hard to say. The story being better in Kai makes up for a lot of the things I prefer about Super but the shows revolve around fighting and I think Super has the edge there. So I suppose I like them equally.

Like the animation I found my enjoyment of Kai to be pretty consistent, there weren't many episodes I particularly didn't dislike nor tremendous, I enjoyed them all. With Super there are episodes I don't care for at all but then it has some really good episodes that I think are some of the best out of the whole franchise.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by sintzu » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:11 pm

Kai did everything better than Super. Story, fights, pacing, animation, character usage, tension, music (Yamamoto), etc. whatever category you can think of, Kai did it better.
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by Doctor. » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:12 pm

Seems a bit arbitrary to compare it to Kai. Isn't it the same as every other DBS vs Z comparison?

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by MR.Mark » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:40 pm

sintzu wrote:Kai did everything better than Super. Story, fights, pacing, animation, character usage, tension, music (Yamamoto), etc. whatever category you can think of, Kai did it better.

The editing for the Freeza battle could of been a little tighter but other than that most of Kai 1.0 was fine.

Final chapters editing and music placement was a mess imo
Last edited by MR.Mark on Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by sintzu » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:44 pm

MR.Mark wrote:Final chapters editing and music placement was a mess imo.
I wouldn't call it a mess but sloppy in certain areas like Goku's fight with Fat Buu and Goten & Trunks removing their mighty mask costume at the tournament then doing it again later, that should've been removed.
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by MR.Mark » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:47 pm

The pacing for a lot of Super is better than Final chapters aswell, and imo the animation certainly rivals it when it's at it's best. Veggeto vs Merged Zamasu comes to mind, most of Z's animation wishes it was that fluid half the time.

Detailed drawings are nice to look at don't get me wrong, but I find a lot of fans tend to lump art and animation into the same category.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by sintzu » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:52 pm

MR.Mark wrote:The pacing for a lot of Super is better than Final chapters as well.

Veggeto vs Merged Zamasu comes to mind, most of Z's animation wishes it was that fluid half the time.
It's nowhere close, The Zamasu arc was very slow and repetative, The current arc was full of "recrutement" episodes that did nothing but slow the story down & the slice of life episodes aren't much better.

Most of the time Z's animation and fights are good while Super's are bad to average. I'd take that over what Super does any day, just because it makes a great scene every now and then doesn't make up for the rest of it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by MR.Mark » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:56 pm

I'll take shorter fights with great money shots over LONNNG episodes with choppy animation anyday.

Other than that, opinions of course, I like Super ok thus far, but to say old Dragon Ball does EVERYTHING better? Simply untrue.

As for the The Zamasu arc, you quoted me on the pacing when I was specifically talking about the animation for that example.
Last edited by MR.Mark on Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:00 am

Are you serious lol? Dragon Ball Z Kai off top, as a product used to reveive Dragon Ball and introduce it to a new generation its lackluster. Though when compared to Super it's a masterpiece.
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by MR.Mark » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:04 am

Again, depends what you get out of it, fights are very important to the series and Super has done some pretty good ones here and there.

From an animation stand point you certainly can't deny old DB has been surpassed AT TIMES.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:11 am

MR.Mark wrote:Again, depends what you get out of it, fights are very important to the series and Super has done some pretty good ones here and there.

From an animation stand point you certainly can't deny old DB has been surpassed AT TIMES.
Your right "at times" meaning four or five times at most.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by MR.Mark » Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:10 am

Whatever your opinion, I can't agree with Kai or Z being a masterpiece in comparison. Super is not THAT bad.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:02 am

Kai is Z with less material. Kai has reused scenes from Z cause the producers couldn't be bothered to make it from scratch. Kai is basically as MULE said in the other thread an abridged version of Z. I wouldn't even call Kai a new product.

I can't stand the mindset behind the product. The aim of it is milking and of the worst kind. It has awful redrawn scenes, sub par acting, horrendous music placement most of the times and forgettable songs. Content doesn't matter cause its nothing new. Yeah, fuck Kai.

Super wins by default. It isn't getting the basics wrong at least. Although, Super is not good either. It's at the same level of GT. But, compared to Kai, its way better. In my opinion, of course.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by MR.Mark » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:19 am

Kai succeeds as it's own product, well mostly kai 1.0, because it made said footage more entertaining to watch than Z, and if you like the dub, you're even more OK with it.

I like Super and Kai for various reasons and both have positives and negatives.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by Bullza » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:22 am

Dragon Ball Super has fights that actually resemble a fight. There's better animation with the fights in Super. They're shorter fights because they're not as repetitive or like a repeated gif.

Something like Goku vs Toppo or Goku vs Android 17, those fights weren't very long but they did get on with it and actually fought.

In Dragon Ball Kai, they fight, they stop and talk, they fight, they stop and talk. It's probably because they're adaptations of how it's drawn in the manga but that's what always happens.

The fights are a lot better in Super when it comes to being less repetitive, better animated and more choreographed​.

Music wise, Kai had some good tracks....which it repeats over and over, you hear the same tracks constantly.

Character wise yeah Kai spread out screen time better but in Dragon Ball Super other characters get a chance to shine more in fights like Krillin, Roshi and Buu. Vegeta only ever kept getting his ass stomped in Kai whereas in Super he's had a much better showing.

The Earthlings who quickly became dirt compared to the Saiyans and had no real purpose at all at even being at the Cell Games are now actually taking part in the Tournament of Power along with Android 7 and 18 who were previously thrown away pretty quickly.

There's also been a lot more creativity with the techniques and abilities these characters have and how they have to beat them.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by ShaneisMC » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:28 am

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:Kai is Z with less material. Kai has reused scenes from Z cause the producers couldn't be bothered to make it from scratch. Kai is basically as MULE said in the other thread an abridged version of Z. I wouldn't even call Kai a new product.

I can't stand the mindset behind the product. The aim of it is milking and of the worst kind. It has awful redrawn scenes, sub par acting, horrendous music placement most of the times and forgettable songs. Content doesn't matter cause its nothing new. Yeah, fuck Kai.

Super wins by default. It isn't getting the basics wrong at least. Although, Super is not good either. It's at the same level of GT. But, compared to Kai, its way better. In my opinion, of course.
Kai for Japan.. Yeah sure I suppose yep. Kai for like everyone else and especially ya know.... us, absolutely not. English Kai is a godsend. Funimation got the opportunity to redo its biggest hit which they did a relatively awful job of originally and they nailed it this time around in every department they had control over. If you like the original Japanese version which don't get me wrong I absolutely do myself and pick OG Japanese over Japanese Kai easily, but Kai for much of the world otherwise is a pretty big deal.

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by Ripper 30 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:28 am

Saikyo no Senshi wrote:Kai is Z with less material. Kai has reused scenes from Z cause the producers couldn't be bothered to make it from scratch. Kai is basically as MULE said in the other thread an abridged version of Z. I wouldn't even call Kai a new product.

I can't stand the mindset behind the product. The aim of it is milking and of the worst kind. It has awful redrawn scenes, sub par acting, horrendous music placement most of the times and forgettable songs. Content doesn't matter cause its nothing new. Yeah, fuck Kai.

Can you tell me how Kai Music was Forgettable and Horrendous and how is Yamamoto's Kai ScoreInferior to Sumitomo's Music ?
Also, Kai atleast hadsome cool and Awesome insert songs which Super never had except playing Unfitting Music in serious situation like here resulting in totally ruining the seriousness of the situation.
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by Ripper 30 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:33 am

Bullza wrote:I'm sure when Dragon Ball Super reached Episode 64 there was a thread asking which was the better series. So let's try that again comparing the original 2009 Dragon Ball Kai and Dragon Ball Super to date at 98 episodes a piece.

Technically neither is the full story so it's a suitable enough comparison. Without any bias and being honest which is better? What does one show do better than the other?

For me, without thinking too hard right now because I'm tired, I could probably go either way.

Dragon Ball Kai has the stronger story in my opinion. Dragon Ball Super has had a pretty interesting story which many interesting concept but there wasn't really a whole lot of story to the first three sagas. It only really got going with the Future Trunks saga though I still don't think it's as good as the Android saga story.

The animation was more consistent with Kai. Super has had high and lows with its animation, though it has improved. I do like the consistency but then I do like the stand out moments that Super has in some of the fights.

As for the fights again I'm a bit undecided. Both series handle fights a little differently. There were fewer fights in Kai but they were longer fights on a more important scale. Super doesn't have many long fights at all, aside from Goku vs Beerus and the final fight involving Merged Zamasu there's few multi long episode fights.

The fights in Kai are a bit more samey to me, I don't particularly have a favourite but in Super because the fights are more on the short and sweet side there are more fights that I enjoy.

Kai doesn't really have anything like Vegito vs Merged Zamasu or Goku vs Gohan or Goku and Trunks vs Black and Zamasu, a few minute long fast paced non stop fight with great animation. The fights in Kai are more drawn out and are interiors more.

They've also started to put more emphasis on other things when it comes to fights. It's no longer all about raw power like in Kai,now strategy, teamwork and techniques play a big factor which is a good thing.

So fight wise I'd give the edge to Super. Though the power scaling is really poor and was done far better in Kai.

The music is better in Super.

The way the characters are handled....Goku was done better in Kai, he seems more childish and selfish in Super. Vegeta is treated better in Super and not just a whipping bag.
Goku was Selfish in Kai as well and Vegata isn't much intresting Character in Super as well.
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
My MAL profile : https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ripper_30

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by Ripper 30 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:38 am

Bullza wrote:
Music wise, Kai had some good tracks....which it repeats over and over, you hear the same tracks constantly.
Which Kai music are you referring to?
Yamamoto's, Sumitomo's or Kikuchi's ?.
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
My MAL profile : https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ripper_30

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Re: Dragon Ball Kai (2009) vs. Dragon Ball Super

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:02 am

ShaneisMC wrote: Kai for Japan.. Yeah sure I suppose yep. Kai for like everyone else and especially ya know.... us, absolutely not. English Kai is a godsend. Funimation got the opportunity to redo its biggest hit which they did a relatively awful job of originally and they nailed it this time around in every department they had control over. If you like the original Japanese version which don't get me wrong I absolutely do myself and pick OG Japanese over Japanese Kai easily, but Kai for much of the world otherwise is a pretty big deal.
Okay... but what has this got to do anything with my point? My point about Kai, the version I follow and is ultimately what matters most to me was a god awful product. What FUNimation and staff did with their version is none of my concern. And, I don't really care about the world.

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