Ranking the original 10 arcs.

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Super_Divine_Genki
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Re: Ranking the original 10 arcs.

Post by Super_Divine_Genki » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:56 pm

Anime adaptation only (JPN).

I'll give it a shot even though I've not really thought about it. So much material ( :o ).

First of all, the whole of OG Dragon Ball I feel is consistently more enjoyable than the Z portion,imo. I'll be skipping attempting to rank those arcs in order, but although good, "The Hunt for the Dragon Balls" arc would most likely be below the other DB arcs.

Now, Z, I can try:

1. Cyborgs/Cell arc - I like it so much despite some of its flaws. Years ago, for some reason, this arc didn't stand out to me so much. It starts with a time skip, then adds another time skip, and then ends before going into another time skip - I think that only this arc does that. Time travel, time skips everywhere. Perfect Cell is a cool character design, and I'm the odd one that finds him more interesting in his "perfect" form than the previous forms. Perhaps a bit overlong, his final transformation sequence is easily the best in the series. I also liked that there were stipulations placed on his ability to evolve. He wasn't around for long at all, and had no legendary past, but had a great impact on the DB world and its protagonists. Really liked how competitive and assured of his "perfection" he was, and seeing him interacting with "ascended" F.Trunks ("Even with all of that power, you will never beat me"), and then later Son Goku of course, was fun to watch because Cell seemed to like fighting them for sport rather than defeating them. I enjoy mostly everything except for the Maron filler and the excessive cutaways to Mr. Satan and his group later at the Cell Games. I like the episodes leading up to the Cell Games, with a few of them featuring Gohan as if the writing might do something with him. The Cell Games Z-TV announcer is hilarious as he sells the action. Gohan's hidden power mini-storyline gets revisited in a BIG way. A minor change to the conclusion to Gohan VS Cell would've made the ending much better. Cell arc Goku is so underrated,imo. The TV Special that accompanied this arc, to go along with F.Trunks returning to his timeline and avenging the fallen warriors is so satisfying.

2. Saiyajin arc - Great beginning with the reveal that Goku is a Saiyajin named Kakarrot born on Planet Vegeta. Oh yeah, Goku has a son named Gohan too. I like so much of the filler here, if not all of it. The Z-senshi VS Nappa is a tough watch considering all of the training they went through, and Goku (with help) VS Vegeta has got to be the most balanced and best choreographed big fight in Z. This Vegeta was a real animal, and nobody was left standing by the end of it all. Gohan's tail growing back just in time for the save may be a bit suspect, or maybe he just had a chemical reaction when exposed to the artificial "moonlight"... ? Anyway, maybe this arc is tied for #1 for that fight alone. It feels like a transitory arc from the lighter and more grounded DB to the more super-powered Z(I know that it's all one big story), with some past characters being somewhat phased out, and some new ones introduced that would be highly relevant going forward.

3. Namek/Freeza arc - On paper, this is probably the best in the series. However, the actual execution of the second half is really iffy. I think that it's strong up until around Goku begins his battle with Ginyu, and then it feels like it loses its way. I read that it was around this time that some of the animation studios were pulling out, so things got a bit wonky. I had been anticipating when Vegeta would finally confront Freeza, because it felt that it was building to something good, but that completely fell apart when Freeza was suddenly many times more powerful than him and everyone else, even after Piccolo and Vegeta had absurd power jumps. The power levels got completely ridiculous here. Goku VS Freeza has a great start and a great conclusion, but the middle felt needlessly long and even aimless in places, like it was being padded out as much as possible. With all of this padding, plus the Garlic Jr. filler, Toriyama may have needed the time to develop more story ideas(?). Still, it was a memorable first watch, but a chore on repeats. Thankfully, Kai fixed most of the problems that I had with the pacing, but the original score and performances were lost. Freeza and the backstory of he and his empire is one of the most interesting elements to exist in DB. More points with the TV Special that accompanied this arc.

4. Boo arc - Not original, but I'm not really into the Afterworld Tournament stuff (Episode #195 to get it started is just nonsense). From Saiyaman/Gohan in High School to when Vegeta tries to save the day is some of the best stuff in DB. Vegeta desiring to remove his inhibitions to have a final fight with "dead" Goku is interesting - he just wanted to be wild and "evil" again for that fight alone, but allowing himself to become a Majin inadvertently had the opposite effect. Instead, it's like that "evil" had been purged out of his body - he realized that things had changed. The part in the story with Boo hatching out while Goku and Vegeta were evenly matched in their battle was some intense stuff (even though Boo's appearance and character didn't appear threatening). Moving forward, anything to do with Fusion I just have never found any interest with, so I didn't really get back into the story until Goku and Vegeta had exited from inside Boo. There were a few good moments before that, like Goku and then Vegeta returning and being tasked with stopping Boo when things were completely dire. The Fusion stuff just hasn't clicked with me, ever. Anyway, Pure Boo is a ceaselessly rampaging little demon monster... thing, and I love it. He's just mindlessly destructive, and all of his laughter, mannerisms, and little noises are hilarious (original audio). The collective effort in taking that thing down was feel good, and a bit nostalgic. In some strange way, I kinda felt bad for Pure Boo getting obliterated like that, but the reincarnation element was a nice move. Goku made some questionable decisions during this arc, which kinda leaves conflicting feelings, but he still had many great moments. The arc in general just went on for too long in places. Twists all over the place. Oh yeah, Mr. Satan came into his own here and was entertaining all throughout.

I would mention my love for the Garlic Jr. arc, but words are not enough. Seriously though, it would've been better if there was more Vegeta in space during those 10(?) episodes. As it is, it's overlong, and thus just ok. It's not an original arc anyway.

And those are my slapped-together partially coherent ramblings. :/

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Re: Ranking the original 10 arcs.

Post by PelicanDynasty » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:41 pm

All based on the anime

1-22nd Tourney
2-23rd Tourney
3-21st Tourney
4-King Piccolo
5-Saiyan
6-Red Ribbon
7-Search for the Dragon Balls
8-Namek
9-Boo
10-Cell

The tournaments are all awesome, but 2-7 are honestly all very close. Really if I were to put them in tiers, it'd be 1 in the top tier, 2-7 in great, 8-9 in good, 10 in okay.

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Re: Ranking the original 10 arcs.

Post by Zephyr » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:50 pm

This will be mostly going off of the anime.

I think of Dragon Ball's ten core arcs as occupying three distinct chunks:

1. Goku's Childhood: Finding its Footing
- The First Hunt for the Dragon Balls arc
- The 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc
- The Red Ribbon Army arc


This chunk begins with Goku's introduction. It has him tentatively donating his 4 Star Ball to Bulma's cause, believing that he'll get it back afterwards. Along the way he meets and trains under Muten Roshi. This chunk ends both with him finding his 4 Star Ball, and graduating from his master's school, so to speak, as he heads off to train on his own. I think this portion of the story is still very experimental on Toriyama's end. This portion is building up to, and refining itself into, what I see as the essential nucleus of Dragon Ball's story....

2. Goku's Adulthood: The Nougatty Center
- The 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
- The Piccolo Daimao arc
- The 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
- The Saiyan arc
- The Namek arc


This chunk is what defines Dragon Ball, to me. Existing at the crossroads of the more grounded martial arts, and the more planet shattering battles that characterize things later on. The core mythos of the series is front and center here, from the origins of the Dragon Balls, to Son Goku himself. The "Goku vs Piccolo" rivalry is in its full swing here. Yamcha, Krillin, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu are all at peak relevance, and Vegeta is at his most enjoyable. The first three arcs all directly tie into one another, as do the last two. We get to see Super Saiyan, before it becomes repetitive. While the bulk of this chunk is largely solid, it feels very phoned in during the tail end. An unfortunate sign of things to come.

3. Goku's Super Saiyan Club: The Fumes
- The Artificial Humans arc
- The Majin Buu arc


This chunk is definitely the weakest, I'd say, overall. Super Saiyans dominate the series from here on out, and a lot of ideas and character motivations are sloppily executed. You can tell that Toriyama didn't have as good of an idea for where to go after Namek, as he did during the five arcs building up to Namek. He's been at it for a long time, and the cracks and seams are finally starting to show. Still packed with great action and satisfying character moments, though. Almost every major character who didn't get to complete their character arc does here, and some even get a second go at it.

---
As should be apparent, I like the middle chunk the best. I think the third chunk is weaker than the first chunk, simply by virtue of being on the superfluous side of the peak. Now to work out the actual arc by arc rankings.
---

The Top:
The 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc and the Saiyan arc are, to me, the Inner Core of the Nougatty Center of Dragon Ball. They represent, most authentically, what the series is to me. The Saiyan arc in particular is my favorite. It's so brutal and bleak, the Saiyan armor is cool as hell, and seeing everyone team up like this for the first time to combat a collective threat is badass. It was also my introduction to the franchise.

The 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai is just behind it. Still very close, in terms of the tone and cast of characters. The characters showcasing abilities that are more and more too large and grandiose for a tournament setting really showcase the increasing scale.

From there, I think the overall story's two bookends are terrific. The First Hunt for the Dragon Balls arc is hilarious, and works as a standalone story just as much as it works as the first arc in a larger saga. The Buu arc, meanwhile, has Toriyama when he gives the least amount of fucks, minimal editorial influence, several moments of self-parody, and an insane fusion of comedy and apocalyptic dread; it also wraps so many things up more well than it should.

The Bottom:
On the other end of things, I think there are three arcs in particular that drag terribly in the anime, and they also happen to each occupy a different chunk: Red Ribbon Army, Namek, and Artificial Humans. These might be the only ones I could call "bad", with the remaining seven being "good". To be consistent, I'll rank them in the order I rank their chunks (2 > 1 > 3). You could say I consider the Namek arc to be the most iconic "bad" arc.

The Middle:
Everything else lies somewhere between these "best arcs" and "worst arcs". The 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai arc is just a really good tournament, featuring a school rivalry that ties into the background of several major characters. It ends with a bitching cliffhanger, and provides Muten Roshi's passing of the torch.

I'm just barely giving Piccolo Daimao the next spot over the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. It gives that second punch of Muten Roshi's send off, and has such an iconic ending, with Goku impaling Piccolo. The 21st Tenkaichi Budokai is still a blast, I just don't think it's as brimming with narratively poignant moments or as drenched in the series' iconic mythos as anything above it. It's the least iconic "good" arc.

And so my personal ranking looks like:
1. Saiyan arc
2. 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
3. First Hunt for the Dragon Balls arc
4. Majin Buu arc
5. 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
6. Piccolo Daimao arc
7. 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc
8. Namek arc
9. Red Ribbon Army arc
10. Artificial Humans arc

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Re: Ranking the original 10 arcs.

Post by sintzu » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:29 am

Zephyr wrote:
I think of Dragon Ball's ten core arcs as occupying three distinct chunks:

1. Goku's Childhood: Finding its Footing
- The First Hunt for the Dragon Balls arc
- The 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc
- The Red Ribbon Army arc


2. Goku's Adulthood: The Nougatty Center
- The 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
- The Piccolo Daimao arc
- The 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
- The Saiyan arc
- The Namek arc


3. Goku's Super Saiyan Club: The Fumes
- The Artificial Humans arc
- The Majin Buu arc
I really like this split. I'd probably change the basic names but the arc groups are perfect. :thumbup:
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Re: Ranking the original 10 arcs.

Post by Desassina » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:56 am

Since I have already voted, I would like to offer my split as well:

1. Emperor Pilaf into the 21st Budokai Tenkaichi - the characters that were introduced on a quest wrapped up in the tournament.
2. Red Ribbon Army into Fortuneteller Baba - the long winded story of yet another dragon ball hunt ended with a small match up.
3. 22nd Budokai Tenkaichi into Piccolo Daimao - the characters belonging to a tournament realized themselves against a main foe.
4. 23rd Budokai Tenkaichi into the Saiyans - the tournament and Raditz made Piccolo a main stay while the others were dead again.
5. Namek and Freeza into Future Trunks - the main villain of yet another long winded quest was finally put to an end with another SSJ.
6. Androids and Cell into the Cell Games - the mystery behind the androids and Cell ended with a grand conflict hosted by one tournament.
7. Babidi and Buu into Fusion and Uub - the failed passing of the torch made the greatest conflict that ended with Goku finally accomplishing it.

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Re: Ranking the original 10 arcs.

Post by ABED » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:36 am

I would argue that DB found it's footing by the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai.
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Re: Ranking the original 10 arcs.

Post by lancerman » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:35 pm

1. Saiyan
2. Freeza/Namek
3. Red Ribbon Army
4. 22nd tournament
5. 23rd tournment
6. Boo.
7. 21st tournament
8. King Piccolo
9.. Hunt for the Dragon Ball's
10. Android/Cell

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Re: Ranking the original 10 arcs.

Post by Analytical Delusion » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:48 am

Ugh. Just wrote out a ton, but lost my content. Should've saved a draft, or written it in another app. Well, I'll put my grades I guess.

Criteria for me (not all weighted equally):

(1) Quality of writing. If plot-points and character development are coherent, and there is a logical progression, provides a solid base.
(2) Degree of tension. The more legitimate the threat and the higher the stakes, the easier it is to be invested.
(3) Passage of time. It requires suspension of disbelief for an unbelievable amount to occur in a short period of time.
(4) World building. New characters, places, and lore can enrich Toriyama's vision; obviously execution matters.
(5) Sense of mystery. If we're aware of everything from the offset of an arc rather than kept guessing, easy to be less invested.

Grading each arc:

Hunt for the Dragonballs - C/D/C/A/C overall C
21st TB - C/F/B/C/D overall C
Red Ribbon Army - D/D/D/B/D overall D
22nd TB - B/D/F/C/D overall C
King Piccolo - A/B/C/B/C overall B
23rd TB - B/C/F/C/D overall C
Saiyan - A/B/A/A/C overall A
Namek - A/A/A/A/C overall A
Androids - A/B/A/A/B overall A
Buu - C/C/C/A/C overall C

Ranked:

Namek - A/A/A/A/C overall A
Androids - A/B/A/A/B overall A

DB at its best. I love the cat-and-mouse element of Freeza, and the Android arc is really an outlier in terms of how deep the mysteries are (the Zamasu arc in Super is the only one close, and I think that exceeds it). Both are written well, and time progresses organically.

Saiyan - A/B/A/A/C overall A

The only shortcomings are that the training is a bit brief in the manga (though it's fleshed out in the anime), and that there isn't much of a problem-solving/adventure portion. It's all training and fighting. Which works, but I think holds it back slightly

King Piccolo - A/B/C/B/C overall B

First instance of world-level danger. My main issue is that things all happen a bit quickly. I think this works a bit better with the 22nd TB as a lead-in, though there isn't a training element (unless you count the Ultra Divine Water, but that's more of a test/potential unlock than training subarc).

Buu - C/C/C/A/C overall C

Two problems with this arc. Firstly, Goku is able to take on the final enemy without having grown stronger at all from the opening (while alive, there is some indication that his SSJ3 is weaker than while dead without a time limit). Secondly, everything from Buu killing Babidi to Goku/Vegeta rescuing everybody from Buu's innards is without impact, and really feels like it could've been cut out.

22nd TB - B/D/F/C/D overall C
23rd TB - B/C/F/C/D overall C

So I don't think this is totally fair, but both seem incomplete. There isn't much build-up, they occur in such a short period of time. I really wish Goku's training with Kami and Popo was fleshed out more before the 23rd TB, that would help a good deal. Both are clearly superior to the early DB stuff to me though, because even though there isn't anybody who is stronger than Goku present, there are very few gimmicky fights wasting panels.

Hunt for the Dragonballs - C/D/C/A/C overall C
21st TB - C/F/B/C/D overall C

I like the world-building of the first arc, and I like the training of the second arc, but frankly, the scale is much too small. For the most part, Goku is much, much stronger than everybody else, other than Master Roshi (who isn't a hostile force). I think this makes for a cute and fun story, but it doesn't really compare to everything afterwards. The gags really detract from the story for me.

Red Ribbon Army - D/D/D/B/D overall D

I've tried to like this, but I just can't. Goku beating up on people he's much stronger than doesn't do it for me. There are some positive points, namely the first death of a named character, the reunion of Goku with his grandpa, and the setting for Muscle Tower, but a lot of the other crap just weighs it down.

Super Arcs (for completion):

Battle of Gods - A/B/F/B/C overall C (It was a very well-written movie, but didn't make for a great saga. Drawn out a bit much.)
Revival of F - B/C/C/D/D overall C (I've come to appreciate it since it ties into the Universal Survival Arc, but it didn't leave an impression. The training stuff leading up to it is kind of fun though.)
Universe 6 - B/D/C/A/C overall C (Not much of a training arc, though Goku and Vegeta spending 3 years in the ROSAT is worth something. Fun characters.)
Goku Black - B/A/B/B/A overall B (Things got really messy in the anime towards the end. The manga was more coherent, but it spilled the beans on the mystery of Zamasu earlier on.)

All Together:

Namek - A/A/A/A/C overall A , Androids - A/B/A/A/B overall A
(small gap)
Saiyan - A/B/A/A/C overall A
(gap)
Goku Black - B/A/B/B/A overall B
King Piccolo - A/B/C/B/C overall B
(gap)
Buu - C/C/C/A/C overall C , Battle of Gods - A/B/F/B/C overall C , Universe 6 - B/D/C/A/C overall C
Hunt for the Dragonballs - C/D/C/A/C overall C , 21st TB - C/F/B/C/D overall C , Revival of F - B/C/C/D/D overall C
(small gap)
22nd TB - B/D/F/C/D overall C , 23rd TB - B/C/F/C/D overall C
(gap)
Red Ribbon Army - D/D/D/B/D overall D

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Re: Ranking the original 10 arcs.

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:18 am

I go for top 3, easiest for me lol

1. Buu
2. Freeza/Saiyajin
3. Cell/Android

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Re: Ranking the original 10 arcs.

Post by Super_Divine_Genki » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:04 pm

Properly read through this thread finally. I don't know how I missed Kunzait's post before, but he mentioned about Namek's landscape, which I've always liked. I've read that many here don't care for, or dislike, the Namek setting. The re-telling of Goku VS Freeza in the extended Resurrection 'F' brings out more of its life, imo.
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10. The Cell Arc (I will never understand the popularity of this arc in particular till the day i die. From top to bottom it was just garbage)
According to this thread, it's on the lower-mid to very bottom of most lists.

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