Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

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Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Ajay » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:06 am

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Welcome! The rewatch begins~ (Click through for details)

Remember, you don't have to watch all five episodes the second this thread is posted. Spread them out if you want! You've got until Sunday before we move on. Don't worry if you fall behind, the threads aren't going anywhere.

Here are some legal ways to stream the series:
Funimation (North America)
AnimeLab (Australia and New Zealand)

This week we're covering:

[spoiler]ミニ悟空はおぼっちゃま!ボク悟飯です
Mini Gokū wa Obotchama! Boku Gohan Desu
Mini Goku is Just Precious! I’m Gohan


It has been five years since the 23rd Tenka’ichi Budōkai. Goku and Chi-Chi have a son, Gohan, and they live on Mt. Paozu. But meanwhile, a spaceship lands far away, and from it an alien appears! As he searches for “Kakarotto” the man discovers Piccolo, who is giving off strong power. But even Piccolo, Goku’s equal, is petrified before this man’s tremendous power!! The alien then picks up another strong power, and heads off in that direction.

史上最強の戦士は悟空の兄だった!
Shijō Saikyō no Senshi wa Gokū no Ani Datta!
The Strongest Warrior in All of History is Goku’s Brother!


For the first time in five years, Bulma has been invited over to Kame House, where Kame-Sen’nin and Kuririn live. Goku also arrives (late), and introduces Gohan, but the alien then lands in front of the four of them!! Calling Goku “Kakarotto”, he declares that he is one of the Saiyan, the strongest warrior race in the universe, and that furthermore he is Goku’s older brother, Raditz! Goku and the others are astonished. When Goku refuses to help him invade another planet, Raditz takes Gohan hostage!!

やった!これが地上最強のコンビだ!
Yatta! Kore ga Chijō Saikyō no Konbi da!
Alright! This is the Strongest Combo on Earth!


Raditz takes Gohan away with him, and as Goku and the others formulate a plan, Piccolo appears! Piccolo says that in order to defeat Raditz, who is interfering with his world domination, he will temporarily join forces with Goku, and Goku agrees. The two use the Dragon Radar to search for Gohan, who is wearing a hat with the Four-Star Ball on it, and they land in front of Raditz. But they are overwhelmed by Raditz’s power, and what’s more, they are rendered speechless when they hear that the other two Saiyan are even stronger than him!!

ピッコロの切り札!悟飯は泣きむしクン
Pikkoro no Kirifuda! Gohan wa Nakimushi-kun
Piccolo’s Trump Card! Gohan is a Crybaby


Out in the wild, Goku and Piccolo challenge Raditz! But the gap between their powers is too great and they are no match. So while Goku holds Raditz back, Piccolo fires his new special attack, the Makankōsappō. But Raditz manages to dodge it by a hair’s breath! Goku seizes an opportunity to grasp hold of Raditz’s tail, a Saiyan’s weak spot, but the cruel Raditz tricks Goku and escapes, and proceeds to torture him. It’s at this point that Gohan, who had been locked up inside the spaceship, unleashes his dormant power with rage!!

悟空死す!ラストチャンスは一度だけ
Gokū Shisu! Rasuto Chansu wa Ichido dake
Goku Dies! There’s Only One Chance Left


Gohan bursts from the spaceship and body slams Raditz! Astonished, Raditz tries to kill the now instantly powered-down Gohan, but Goku immobilizes him. As Goku says to shoot them both, Piccolo fires the Makankōsappō. The beam pierces through their two bodies!! In his death agony, Raditz’s last words are that the two remaining Saiyan out in space will attack Earth in one year. Bulma and the others arrive, having followed behind, and as they watch, Goku passes away as well.[/spoiler]


Suggested Format & Weekly Questions


Language: For the sake of context, let us know which language you're watching the series in (and what score, if required).
General Thoughts: Your thoughts on the episode, possibly linked to the suggested questions if need be. Cover the plot, the tone, the character interactions, and characterisation.
Entertainment Factor: How was the pacing? Did the episode keep you entertained throughout, or what could have been done better?
Animation: Did you like the action sequences, or the way characters emoted? Did things move in a satisfying way, or was it mostly style over substance?
Questions: Not necessary, but if you're curious about opinions on a specific point that hasn't been touched on, go ahead and ask! It's a nice way to spur the topic onward.

- Episode 1 is essentially Dragon Ball Episode #154, but how do you feel it serves as an opening to this new chapter? For example, did they do a decent job of introducing and characterising Gohan?

- How do you find Raditz as a character? He drops a lot of memorable info bombs, but is he memorable outside of that?

- Goku's death at the hands of Piccolo arguably has a lot of weight if you have the full context of the series up to this point, but if you saw Z first, do you recall how this impacted you?

These first few weeks might be a little bumpy as I work out how best to run these threads, so feel free to keep throwing suggestions at me regarding how to keep these topics fresh.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by RoarkVegeta » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:13 pm

Language: Japanese

General Thoughts:

- As you noted, this early stuff feels like it's a part of the original series. Radditz's ship even flies past the sun from the opening animation of Makafushigi Adventure, which I always thought was a cool touch.

- As far as the Gohan introduction in episode 1, it's really been something I've always felt was a bit unnecessary. I remember when Kai was first airing, I watched how they handled the filler material involving Gohan and I thought it was nicely done. Yeah, I love the sabre-tooth tiger and all, but I still love the "Who the hell is that kid" feeling I would get from reading the manga. I don't really think it was drawn out as filler too, as when this episode aired, Kuririn was showing off the Kienzan for the first time in the manga, and I'm sure the anime staff was well prepared for some filler in between the Radditz fight and the Saiya-jin arrival. It's not something I fast forward through, but do think it was a bit unnecessary.

- I've always thought Radditz was probably the perfect character for Goku to meet in these early chapters. In the grand scheme of the series, he's really nothing powerwise compared to what we'll see even in this arc, but you could say that for Piccolo Daimao too, the last major villain the series had seen to this point. I feel like it kind of gets tossed aside that Radditz is Goku's own brother as well! I know Radditz makes some "Would you really kill your own brother?" side comments, but after that, I don't recall anything else. Obviously, I would imagine Goku feels no remorse since he threatened to kill all of his friends and he really had no knowledge of him before he landed on the island. Also, Radditz being voiced by Shigeru Chiba makes him probably 10x better of a character. Fantastic performance.

- My viewing history is a bit scattered, as I'm sure I was aware of what happened in these episodes after surfing the internet, but I believe I read through this material first, and then watched when Cartoon Network was showing the "Ultimate Uncut" episodes. To me, I feel bummed that I already knew that it was going to happen, but there's still a good amount of emotion in it. If I were looking from a few perspectives, I'd imagine those who had been reading and watching along in Japan during the original run were pretty shocked, but obviously knew the Dragon Balls were a thing and had revived multiple people in the past, so I would think they figured that Goku would be back in no time. If you were a fan watching the dub in 1995-96, you would probably completely thrown for a loop, because all you had seen was 13 episodes of a young Goku and then he's just dead.

Entertainment Factor: The pacing in these episodes is still pretty good, which is the same as the original series. You can follow along with the manga and have a great time with it. It also brings in a new package of background music to work with, and is nice to listen to before later on in this arc when the Movie 1 package is brought in. I don't come running back to these episodes, but they're always an enjoyable watch for me.

Animation: I think one of the thing that Mike and Meri have talked about on the Daizex/Kanzenshuu podcast is how much they like this early style of art. There are really no drastic changes from DB episode 153 to DBZ episode 1, and everyone looks nice and round.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Haseowolf » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:43 pm

Language: Japanese

General Thoughts:

So I'm currently only in two episodes, but one thing that I wanted to post that I'm sure is something everyone else might already be cognizant of:

I've always known that Goku and his family lived in Mount Paozu, Goku's childhood region. But that establishing shot of Grandpa Gohan's place and then the pan over to Goku and Chichi's home made it hit me - this is literally exactly where Goku grew up. He's hopping through these trees that he has known and been around his entire life. It doesn't have a lot of bearing on the story or anything of the sort, but it was just something that hit me. I grew up and moved away from the home I was raised in so everything around me now is relatively new since it's a different part of the state. It's pretty cool for Goku that here he is, with his family living where he's always lived, a place he loved, and has so much history.

Anyway, I gotta get back to watching more. Enough of my old rambling~

EDIT (Additional thought): I absolutely love Shigeru Chiba's performance here - a clear difference between Raditz and Pilaf. I kind of wish we had Nozawa playing Raditz just to hear where she'd take it. She's done everyone else in the family and leaves Raditz the black sheep.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by sintzu » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:53 pm

I do think Z did its best at introducing everything and acting as a standalone show but there's no denying how much more of an impact Goku's death would've had on newcomers had they seen the history behind the 2 characters and DB in general. After watching both DB & Z (Kai) back to back multiple times I think they should've just continued with 154 instead of starting from scratch to ensure that certain moments like Goku's death and his origins had the proper impact they were meant to have.

In terms of Raditz he doesn't have much going for him apart from the information he gives but I guess playing a role in Goku's death should count for something so I'll give him that as only 2 characters managed to pull it off (Cell being the 2nd one).

I just took a look at the manga and Gohan isn't introduced till we see him at Roshi's so Toei even in Kai gave him a completely different introduction. I wonder how different of an impact he would've had on viewers had that been his introduction in the anime as well.

I really like the art and animation, everything seems so natural in terms of movements, conversations and the way characters look and act. The fights are really intense and well choreographed as everything has the heavy impact they're meant to. Piccolo losing and regrowing his arm feels very painful which is what you'd expect from something like that. His beam going through Goku and Raditz also has a very heavy and real impact, you can tell these are attacks meant to kill.

I don't have time to watch Z from the beginning as I'm currently watching Kai and other anime but I will comment on key moments like this one. I just saw DB and finished Freeza's Kai arc and I can't emphasize enough how much I love classic DB, the more I see it the more I understand why it and Toriyama were as influential as they were and why it has been able to stand the test of time.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:33 pm

Preface- Watching via the Japanese language, most of the time however I will be referring to mostly dub names and terms they're just too ingrained and just easier for me to write. When talking about the JPN cast I will mostly be referring to their char names since I only ever watch anime dubbed so I am not similar at all with Japanese VA's beyond the big one's like Nozawa Horikawa etc.

#1:

General Thoughts:
Gohan's big (small) adventure!
A lot happens and then simultaneously not a lot happens in this episode, it is a weird start for sure. Right off the bat the episode is tonally inconsistent, you have Goku looking for what we assume is his son meanwhile an ominous threat enters the fray, while I get that showing the protagonist side before an impending doom is gonna happen is quite a common thing I just felt like this episode the transitions between Raditz and then the protagonists weren't very seamless. Just feel like cutting to Gohan was not a good choice, this is a story about Goku and I think they should mirror Raditz with Goku not random Gohan shenanigans. It feels to me that Toei were really pushing this Gohan's big adventure thing, if I am not mistaken I believe there was some worry about growing Goku up so it makes sense they'd want to focus on the kid.

Speaking of Gohan, it is not really a good introduction apart from the end when Goku finds he's actually above him (that is pretty cool foreshadowing of events) but other than that he is what you'd expect a kid who's lost his mom and dad so there isn't much to differentiate Gohan from except that little tease that the end.

Radtiz and his story so far, pretty ominous introduction a pretty imposing design of a character, takes out a chump but then his meeting with Piccolo is where you get a real sense of him, him taking out a chump is whatever but him intimidating Piccolo however that is pretty good way to show that yeah this guy is a threat. This whole "Kakarot" thing is pretty interesting what could he be referring too? Oh wait they just spoiled it, great job guys! The imagery of Goku going into the pod is pretty great don't get me wrong but it kills the excitement for the next episode especially when the narrator is asking all these questions that the audience would have been asking had they not been spoiled. At this point it is pretty easy to guess that Kakarot=Goku therefore Goku is an alien.

Entertainment Factor:
The Raditz stuff was very interesting but the Gohan stuff was kinda boring if I am honest. Like I mentioned before it wasn't a good mirror to the Raditz stuff.

Animation:
It was fine. Just what the episode needed, nothing amazing but nothing dreadful. Though that said, I did find some of the background stills not great they looked kind of plain if I am honest, the beginning bit when the background stills were moving (there was nothing in the forefront) I found that pretty jarring.

Music:
It's Kikuchi, you know his music breeds atmosphere unlike Sumitomo Kikuchi's cheery music is also great, there is this one track that reminded me how that god awful DBS Goku theme should have sounded like, it perfectly conveyed the scene of Goku rescuing his son without taking you out of it.
If there is one complaint about it, it is I feel the placement sometimes weren't great, sometime I felt they didn't seamless connect like one instance there is a tense theme playing then it immediately changed tone, that was sort of jarring but not deal breaking.

Japanese cast:
Surprised how youthful Nozawa sounds as Goku here, almost sounds like her adult Gohan in parts, which does make a lot of sense Goku is still young here. Nozawa does a realistic crying baby and her Gohan is cute. Piccolo sounds pretty great has that roughness to his voice extremely intimidating off the bat. Raditz does the job, intimidating voice matches the character no complaint. Excited for when the more interesting moments arrive!

Overall score and opinion:
6/10. Does an almost good job of teasing events and sets up the villain very nicely, however the episode struggles to sustain the interest whenever they cut away from Raditz so ultimately it is an okay episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by gaberparadiso » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:50 pm

Episode 1

General thoughts: 100% fair, this episode has the same problem as episode 1 of DBS: they should've focused more on the interaction between Goku and Chichi, now that would've been interesting. Instead, we only get a small dialogue and over 10 minutes of Gohan getting lost in the forest. Now, I'm not a racist towards fillers, but this was obnoxious: I can't bear Gohan's constant whining, because it's pointless and so distracting that we might forget the real purpose of it, that is Raditz's arrival on Earth. I have no other problems with the beginning and the ending, they're okay overall.

Entertainment factor: really inconsistent pacing. Again, OVER 10 minutes of Gohan crying is too much.

Animation: nothing special, nothing abysmal. However, a piece of me dies after seeing Shida animating the bit with Gohan chasing the tiger who stole his hat.

Music: this episode features the M7** compilation for the very first time. As much as I respect Kikuchi as a composer, the unreleased Gohan crying theme is sappy and really weak. On the other hand, M711 sounds glorious and fits Piccolo's personality very well. I also liked the use of the unreleased M205, when Piccolo is shocked by Raditz's power. That BGM was used several times in DB, when Kami explained how he became God of the Earth, and Krillin preparing his Double Tsuihikidan vs Piccolo.

Overall score: 6/10, Gohan was the MVP of this episode, but not in a good way.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:55 pm

gaberparadiso wrote:Episode 1

General thoughts: 100% fair, this episode has the same problem as episode 1 of DBS: they should've focused more on the interaction between Goku and Chichi, now that would've been interesting. Instead, we only get a small dialogue and over 10 minutes of Gohan getting lost in the forest. Now, I'm not a racist towards fillers, but this was obnoxious: I can't bear Gohan's constant whining, because it's pointless and so distracting that we might forget the real purpose of it, that is Raditz's arrival on Earth. I have no other problems with the beginning and the ending, they're okay overall.

Entertainment factor: really inconsistent pacing. Again, OVER 10 minutes of Gohan crying is too much.

Animation: nothing special, nothing abysmal. However, a piece of me dies after seeing Shida animating the bit with Gohan chasing the tiger who stole his hat.

Music: this episode features the M7** compilation for the very first time. As much as I respect Kikuchi as a composer, the unreleased Gohan crying theme is sappy and really weak. On the other hand, M711 sounds glorious and fits Piccolo's personality very well. I also liked the use of the unreleased M205, when Piccolo is shocked by Raditz's power. That BGM was used several times in DB, when Kami explained how he became God of the Earth, and Krillin preparing his Double Tsuihikidan vs Piccolo.

Overall score: 6/10, Gohan was the MVP of this episode, but not in a good way.
I think they should used the part where Goku Chichi and Gohan are out together as a family (which I think was used as a flashback later on?) that would have mirrored the Raditz thing so much better.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by gaberparadiso » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:00 pm

I agree. I believe seeing Goku and Chichi's evolution as couple would've been pretty interesting. The scene you mentioned appeared on ep. 170, as a filler flashback.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by The gr » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:51 pm

Language: I will watch the entire series like this,is just feel more natural.
    #1
      General thoughts:Gohan is cute and all but i felt like his section was kinda boring albeit not drawn out.I did like seeing goku saving gohan here.[list[/list]Raditz had a good introduction,he killed a guy with no mercy and made piccolo a chump here.My problem with this episode was it focused a little too much on gohan and less on raditz presence.
        Entertainment factor: The pacing wasn't good and the only section that keep me interested was Raditz.
          Animation:Nothing spectacular to note here,the back grounds were gorgeous here.
            Music:The music placement were ok,i do like gohan theme song.
              Overall score:6/10,just an average episode,nothing offensive or nothing remarkable other than raditz.

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              Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

              Post by SmugStick » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:11 pm

              Episode 1-5

              Language: Japanese

              General Thoughts: Really excited to be part of this! Have always wanted an opportunity to be more involved in the Kanzenshuu community. I haven't watched Z in a long time, usually stick with the manga or Kai. I was never really a fan of the first few episode of Z. God, the intro and music give me nostalgia, sadly I am watching the cropped version, as I only own one Dragon Box (The end of the Freeza saga). Gohan is adorable and a highlight of the episodes! Along with the sweet melodies and amazing voice work, I can't ever get enough. However, the first episode's pace is too slow for my taste. Episode 2 picks it up a bit more, but is still very slow. I did recently watch DB Recut, so seeing the old gang together again is an amazing feeling. Kuririn in particular, as he is my favorite character aside from Gotenks. Seeing Piccolo and Goku team up in something incredible to me still. Though now that I know the context behind their relationship, it seems a bit off to me that both would agree so quickly to team up. The fight is amazing, though, and I will always love it. Especially Piccolo's arm lost and Makakosappo. God, I remember being blown away the first time I watched it. I also had nightmares when I saw Goku's chest hole. I think these episodes are good but too heavy on new info and a bit weird with pacing. Will continue watching. I don't think I'll /really/ enjoy myself until Nappa and Vegeta arrive.

              Entertainment Factor 6/10. Good start to a new stage in the story, but overall underwhelming considering what we just went through. Though I think it is smart to begin with a peaceful day, the fact that there is something massive going on at the same time in the form of Raditz, makes it have an awkward pace and tone. Once Piccolo and Goku team up, things get better, but it drags with talking and "no don't let his tail go." shenanigans.

              Animation I've never really had a good eye for animation, but it'd say it was okay! Nothing to complain about. Love the rounded designs of the early stuff and it is consistent. The storyboards of the fight seem great!

              Questions
              1) The first Z episode does a great job introducing us to Gohan! It is a natural (albeit very brisk) transition to a new era.
              2)Raditz is an interesting character. Though he is forgotten rather quickly, he is memorable as the first villain of the Z part of Dragon Ball. His fight is incredible too! But not much I can say.
              3) I did not watch DB in order. I actually watched the Freeza saga first when I was a kid. That being said, seeing Goku die in the Saiyan saga was crazy to me and had an emotional impact. I knew he survived, but I thought of Gohan, Chichi and his friends and got sad. Now, after having watched DB it is even more so heartwrenching to see him grasp Kuririn's hand.
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              Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

              Post by Tai981 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:04 pm

              Language: Japanese

              Episode 1

              I'll just note on some things I like and things I didn't like.

              Some things I liked:

              The music was something I enjoyed, really love Kikuchi.
              Maybe favorite part had to be the moment when Gohan was chasing the tiger, I think it was a tiger, I believe someone said it was shida who worked on that part.
              It's been years since I've seen the first episode so I went in lacking memory of the episode so I was little surprised.
              I don't have much to say about raditz in this episode, even though I should but I will say his introduction was good and probably would've scared me if I knew nothing about DBZ.
              I really like the designs during this beginning part of dbz, I just have a special love for them.
              Oh right, the opening is so good and I just couldn't skip it.


              Some things I didn't like:
              This list is pretty small and I've heard other people say this as well but Gohan crying for 10 minutes was a bit much.

              I don't have much to say about this episode because it's the first episode even though it's the 154th episode in all of dragon ball. It's just a starting point episode, that's all. This is definitely gonna something be different since I'm rewatching dragon ball at the time. I'll probably watch episode 2 tomorrow, really excited to be doing this.

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              Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

              Post by OhHiRenan » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:41 am

              Language: Original Japanese with English subtitles on the Dragon Boxes

              001: 2.5/5

              I've never been a huge fan of this episode. Toei does a charming enough job contrasting Kid Goku and Gohan by showing us Gohan's cowardly nature through a reuse of the saver tooth tiger, but this is an otherwise very slow moving episode. The last few minutes with Raditz are excellent, but dedicating so much to Gohan filler when his character already has quite a lot in this arc from the manga to establish him is not a move I'm fond of.

              Standout scene- Raditz's spacepod flying past the sun from the Dragon Ball opening

              002: 4/5

              What the first episode should have been. It reintroduces the four most prominent leads from Dragon Ball, gives Gohan (more) characterization, and sends Raditz in with a twist that should not by any means work, but manages to come off totally natural. Of course Goku is an alien! Really, this twist shows the brilliance of Toriyama's writing. He didn't plan Goku to be an alien, but he improvises so well. He knows how to add in new information without contradicting anything or raising up any red flags.

              The episode does take place entirely at Kame House, but the story is so engaging that it hardly matters. My only main gripe is that it does stall for time at certain points, but it's not a huge deal. In an ideal world, the fluff would have been cut out here and replaced with Raditz and Piccolo's meeting from episode 1 for a perfect introduction to Z.

              Standout scene: Kuririn getting tail whipped into Kame House

              003: 3.5/5

              A decent episode that keeps the drama from the previous episode moving along at a respectable pace. It would have benefited from more substance and less fluff, but that's an issue with the Z adaptation as a whole. This is by no means a bad episode, though. It's just a bit too slow for what's currently happening in the narrative. If nothing else, it serves as great build up for episode 4.

              Standout scene: Goku and Piccolo flying off together

              004: 4/5

              A fun, action packed episode that gets quite a lot done. The cut to Bulma isn't too bad since it does help set the mood going forward, but the Chichi cut does absolutely nothing for me. I'm also not especially fond of the lull between Raditz's scouter picking up Gohan's Battle Power and Gohan breaking out of the pod. Otherwise, it's a great episode that moves at a good pace with a lot of entertaining action.

              Standout scene: Makankosappo

              005: 4.5/5

              An excellent, brutal episode that cements the tone the rest of the series will be adhering to. Yeah, the series did actually get darker with Piccolo Daimao but, with Goku dying, it truly does feel like childhood's end. My one and only complaint is the Chichi cut. It's unnecessary padding in an episode that was doing perfectly fine. Having Goku and Raditz get makankosappod at the halfway point was an especially good move on Toei's part.

              Standout scene: Goku closing his eyes and dying

              Talk about a spoilery title. I've never been a fan of Z's titling conventions.

              Weekly Questions:

              - Toei does an okay job characterizing Gohan, but it does feel like a waste to me considering how much development Gohan is going to get in this arc anyways. I feel they really played up his role as the co-lead which lends some credence to the notion that "Dragon Ball is about Goku, Z is about Gohan." If you've only ever seen the anime, Toei did make the most out of their Mini-Goku for better or for worse. It's a decent introduction, if a bit unnecessary.

              - Raditz is an excellent character who plays his role perfectly. He's very memorable outside of his exposition. He works as a good foil for Goku, puts our heroes in a totally completely situation for the first time, and he's just the right amount of arrogant. I'm perfectly content with how little he's in the series. It lets you miss him after the impact he left us with.

              - I watched Z first as it was airing on Toonami and the shock of the main character dying five episodes in was huge for me. I'm someone who always says you should read/watch Dragon Ball to truly appreciate the Z-era, and I stand by it, but Goku's death in episode 5 works whether you've seen the original or not. If you've seen it, it's the main character you've followed for six arc actually dying. If you're just starting it, it's the main character dying before the first arc even gets halfway through.
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              Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

              Post by gaberparadiso » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:44 am

              Episode 2

              General thoughts: I guess this one is totally fine. We get to hear of Goku's origin, who apparently has an older brother. And I have to be honest, Raditz is an interesting character, way more than Nappa. Maybe due to being the main character's relative. It's a shame we only see him in 5 episodes + filler flashbacks. However, WHY is Goku so dense? Even after Kami removed his tail back in DB, and after his friends asking him about Gohan, he'd still not realized Saiyans turned into Oozarus during a full moon.

              Entertainment factor: it's fine, I guess. There was no pointless filler, so I'm okay with it.

              Animation: the only distinctive aspect was Kasai's storyboard: it had interesting perspective and gave depth to the episode. To be fair, Aoshima in DBZ is hit and miss: while I like how he draws Bulma's eyes, I hate how he makes characters without a tooth, especially in Krillin's case. Animation-wise, it's conservative, too, as they repeated the Raditz flying bit more than twice, and also Gohan's crying while Raditz was holding him. But I guess it's normal, since most of Aoshima DB episodes were pretty conservative.

              Music: this episode has a really weird music placement: first off, they reused M726, M727 and M728 TWICE, and some of these BGMs did sound distorted. Moreover, the unreleased M637 (played during Korin's lesson to Goku in movie 3) was high-pitched for some reason.

              Overall score: 7/10, clearly better than the first one.

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              Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

              Post by The gr » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:09 pm

              #2
                General thoughts:Better than episode 1,still suffer from the slow pacing but it had a lot of interesting dialogue,if you had watch DB before you certainly be shocked through as a first time viewer you won't feel the impact.
                  Entertainment factor:Fine,i liked Goku backstory as well the history of the saiyans
                    Animation:Like the previous one,not heavy on action,it had a good background when Raditz was monologuing his origin.There one thing i noticed,why the hell Krillin was drawn with a missing tooth.
                      Music:Nothing remarkable here.
                        Overall score:7/10,if it weren't for Goku backstory,this would have been a six,thing will get interesting since one of my favorite battle begins later on.

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                        Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

                        Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:58 pm

                        Episode 1 - 5

                        Language: Japanese

                        General Thoughts: The first episode was real a bit of a mixed bag. I can understand how the show wanted to lay the foundation of how much Goku's character is polar opposite of Gohan's, but I feel that went on for too long.

                        Raditz does make a very imposing debut in the somewhat brief time he has in the first episode, and his imposing nature is magnified even further in the next episode.

                        The twist of Goku being alien is handled very well, and I also love the concept of Goku and his greatest rival (Piccolo) teaming up to take on on eve great threat. It really helps in selling the notion that Raditz truly is that big of danger to overcome.

                        The actual fight itself between Goku, Piccolo and Raditz is excellently paced and very well animated.

                        And of course, Goku dying was made to be a huge deal (as it should be) and Nozawa and Tanaka great performances really elevate that scene.

                        Entertainment Factor: The fist episode was quite a drag, but the next four episodes really pick up the pace and tell the story at tolerable tempo.

                        Animation: Episode 4 was really the only episode in the first five that really stood out in terms of animation. Great story-boarding and top notch direction.

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                        Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

                        Post by Ajay » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:02 pm

                        I'll be watching the series in Japanese throughout.

                        Episode 1

                        General Thoughts: For some reason, I was convinced that I didn't like this episode, but I thoroughly enjoyed it this time around. It transitions very nicely on from the last episode of Dragon Ball. The Chinese vibes are very much still present, particularly when Gohan is wandering around the forest chasing after magical looking butterflies or talking to birds. Kikuchi's score helps a lot with that, as does the lovely background art.

                        Raditz has a great introduction, and I'd forgotten just how good Shigeru Chiba's voice acting is as him. We don't really get to know much about about him in this episode, and I quite like that. I'm always a fan of slowly building tension, and I think they achieved that nicely. His confrontation with Piccolo is absolutely fantastic - it's real edge of your seat stuff. Seeing the big bad of the previous arc absolutely tremble over the sheer presence of this new force is seriously powerful stuff. Top notch direction on Nishio's part, which I guess you'd expect from the director of the entire series.

                        The cutaways to Gohan didn't bother me much. As I said, I like the fact that we're only trickled glimpses of Raditz in this episode. Magical forest fun times with Gohan do a pretty good job of characterising him, and as has already been noted in this thread, him somehow avoiding the waterfall is pleasant foreshadowing.

                        The big cliffhanger wraps things up nicely. It's a solid, if a little unfocused intro to this new era.

                        Entertainment Factor: It's certainly not a 'blow your mind' type of episode, but I wouldn't say it's in any way boring. If I had to sum it up, I'd say it's short of exciting, but at the very least, it's engaging.

                        Animation: Masayuki Uchiyama gets a lot of (well deserved) criticism thrown his way later in the series, but the softer designs allow him to shine quite nicely. It doesn't feel too incongruous with the others episode in the batch we're watching this week. There are some pretty nice close-ups that seem to have only been lightly corrected (?), and they have far more detail than you might expect from Last House.

                        There's a surprising amount of background animation in this episode, too. Whether it be the Shida scene mentioned earlier with the tiger, or Goku flying up the side of the mountain as he attempts to rescue Gohan, it's all put together pretty nicely. It helps elevate what's otherwise a fairly static episode.

                        Nishio's storyboard is pleasant. You've got some unique angles as Gohan wanders around the forest, and while the rest of the episode isn't too crazy, the compositions are at the very competent.

                        Episode 2

                        General Thoughts: Surprisingly, I didn't enjoy this one quite as much as the first episode. This is the big reveal of Goku's origins, and while it's absolutely engaging stuff, I didn't really feel masses of tension around the scene. Osamu Kasai's direction felt quite dated, so I was constantly being pulled out of the scene by over-dramatic camera pans and cuts. Sometimes subtly is best, but episode is intent on smacking you around the face with this twist. The details should speak for themselves, but they feel hammy and a bit silly with how they're presented here.

                        The ultimatum Raditz gives Goku at the end is far and away the best part of the episode. Everything slows down and the weight of those words is actually allowed to sink in. It's the big hook for this episode, so I'm glad it was executed nicely.

                        Entertainment Factor: With all the info drops, it's certainly not boring, but as I said, poor direction makes things feel a little flat.

                        Animation: Katsumi Aoshima's not really a supervisor you hear covered particularly often. He vanishes at episode 30, so it's not too surprising. There's little in the way of actual movement to talk about here, but his artwork is solid. There are a whole bunch of shots during critical moments where he ramps up the hatching, and they help a bunch with establishing the dramatic tone of the scenes. Competent work, but nothing to write home about.

                        For me, the stand out part of this episode was its storyboard. For all the flaws in the direction, Kasai's boards are gorgeous. Powerful angles, gorgeous landscapes, abstract imagery. It's got pretty much everything. Definitely a 'looker' of an episode.

                        -

                        I can't answer all of the questions I've posed so far, but I can at least do two. The first one I covered above, so I'll tackle this on its own:

                        - How do you find Raditz as a character? He drops a lot of memorable info bombs, but is he memorable outside of that?

                        He's definitely one big ol' exposition spewer, but he's got a real charm to him that I think gives him enough character to prevent him from feeling like some sort of prototype Vegeta (which I guess he is, really). He's snide and tricksy in a way that none of the upcoming Saiyans really are.
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                        Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

                        Post by Professor Freeza » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:04 pm

                        What is Happening here?

                        Is everyone watching Z from the beginning at the same time?

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                        Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

                        Post by gaberparadiso » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:08 pm

                        Episode 3

                        General thoughts: Gohan's crying is UNIVERSALLY annoying. Either in Japanese, English or Italian, it's still obnoxious. That said, I have one big issue with this episode: considering Raditz is much stronger than Goku at that point, how come didn't the former ever train to overcome his tail weakness, unlike the latter? Despite this, Goku and Piccolo's alliance is well-structured and yet predictable.

                        Entertainment factor: its pacing is probably less slow than the first two episodes.

                        Animation: nothing to say. Takenouchi's storyboard is not that impressive, and doesn't improve the bit with Raditz flying away on the 1st half, likely animated by Teruhisa Ryu, whose artwork is also kinda revisable. And honestly, Shindo's corrections didn't valorize key animators at all. Not even Yamamuro, who was most likely the most talented animator of Shindo Pro. Maybe he's the responsible of Raditz's first attack on Goku and Big Green.

                        Music: it's okay, but at this point the M7** compilation feels already overused. Luckily, M711 and M712 sound pretty fitting for Piccolo's character.

                        Overall score: as a whole, it's another fairly decent episode. 6,5/10.
                        Last edited by gaberparadiso on Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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                        Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

                        Post by ABED » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:10 pm

                        He's definitely one big ol' exposition spewer,
                        True, but unlike Cell, he has a reason for it beyond the author trying to impart information to the reader. RADITZ is trying to convince Goku to join him. The worst exposition is when the writer feels he has to impart information to the audience and has characters say something for no other reason than to say something to do with the plot.

                        General Thoughts: I love these episodes. Even in Z, Gohan's introduction works. Raditz makes quite the impression and the fight is one of my favorite in all of DB. Seeing Goku and Piccolo team up was awesome. The fight is quick, brutal, and easy to follow.

                        - In the manga, we don't get a hint of Gohan's hidden power until Raditz has kidnapped him. In the anime, it's foreshadowed in the first episode. I don't have a preference. Both work well.
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                        Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

                        Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:40 pm

                        Preface- Watching via the Japanese language, most of the time however I will be referring to mostly dub names and terms they're just too ingrained and just easier for me to write. When talking about the JPN cast I will mostly be referring to their char names since I only ever watch anime dubbed so I am not similar at all with Japanese VA's beyond the big one's like Nozawa Horikawa etc.

                        #2:

                        General Thoughts:
                        The real (horse) meat of the story begins!
                        This episode is well problematic for me, starting off with a reunion? What the hell, are these guys actually friends? Why were they estranged for so long? Why did the birth of Gohan not make Goku go oh I should probably tell my friends this big thing, nah I will wait 4 years for a re-union and then tell them. And then this still stupid secrecy over Ozaru, Gohan now has a tail instead of being all cryptic just f**king tell him! Oh my god what kind of friends are these? I get it, they (writers) were saving the Ozaru reveal for that scene with Vegeta but this is too silly to comprehend there is no logical reason for any of them to *not* tell him. Also the start of Yamcha the jerk!

                        Anyway, moving onto postive aspects Raditz comes along and has a very interesting demeanour, the tension in this episode is pretty great. Unlike #1 the tone is consistent throughout and no cut backs, the interest is sustained throughout the episode as we finally learn of Goku's past (not like it wasn't spoiled in #1) while many see Raditz has Mr. Expositon it works, he does his job, an imposing figure comes and then breaks the shell and sets up what the Z portion will be about. Unfortunately after Raditz loads we then are met with dumb convenience via Roshi who gets exposition of his own! F**king hell Roshi did you not think this was necessary to tell Goku anytime between when you met and now? This episode just makes it clear Goku has bad friends, like jeez.

                        The best part of the episode was the comment about Goku's strength then mirrored later by Raditz one shotting him, again help builds the villain up as a someone strong and intimating.

                        Entertainment Factor:
                        Unlike #1 I was able to sustain interest throughout. Very engaging, even knowing what is gonna happen it is still pretty tense finding Goku's past out and really make you think back to DB and go "ahhhhh".

                        Animation;
                        Despite not a lot of action it was pleasant especially the beginning when Goku was on Cloud, the character expression where nice and the SB was also pretty good too! Which is needed for essentially an exposition heavy episode. Something I forgot to mention for #1 NO MORE DAMN HIGHLIGHTS ON GOKU!! :thumbup:

                        Music:
                        No issues of jarring placement this time around and the use of silence before Raditz arrives was very effective! And then the music slowly builds up as Raditz approaches that was all great, stand out moment re: Music for me this episode.

                        Japanese cast:
                        RIP Hiromi Tsuru. Like with #1 the cast just sound so youthful, I am still trying to adjust to them sounding like this. Raditz is fine again, not particularly an ear blowing performance I feel like any intimidating voice will do okay here.

                        Overall score and opinion:
                        6/10. What on paper looked a much better episode, really wasn't, those niggles mentioned bother me a lot, in fact more than I thought it would when watching the episode vs typing my thoughts. The intrigue of Goku's past ultimately puts this episode just above mediocrity.

                        2 episodes down and Z isn't off to the best of start, #3 is where things should get very juicy let's hope it picks up!

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