Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by TrunksTrevelyan0064 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:13 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Then boom the tail grab, ahh Goku you smart bastard oh wai- Goku you dumb bastard WHY. WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY?

F**king hell man this bothers me soooooooo much, NOT ONCE in the previous two episodes did Goku show any kind of feeling to Raditz at all other than he's the enemy to the point he would now suddenly believe his crap spiel, NEVER ONCE did Goku EVER deliberate that oh Raditz is my brother he is a relative what do I do, it was we have to stop him, so why why now did Goku suddenly get a feeling to let go of the tail, the dude had shown no remorse and now he's in a bind he suddenly is BSing how dumb do you have to be Goku to let him go? What is even point of this? Just have Raditz not weak to the tail and thus Goku grabs him and dies that way, instead Toriyama is fixated on writing Goku as an utter idiotic moron. I can't fathom this at all, yes Goku is an idiot but this is too far, thinking forward it is nice to know he hadn't learned from this (looking at you Freeza arc). Goku HAS to know that once he let's go all the power he just had over Raditz would go too therefore Raditz would have no reason to keep his word of leaving... just terrible writing all round.

As someone who has been extremely, ridiculously naive at times, I can totally see how Goku would be conflicted the moment Raditz starts pretending to show remorse. No matter how much of an awful scumbag you are, if you express remorse to me and are good enough of an actor to make it seem genuine, I might fall for it. Granted, I've wisened up over the years and I would be far more suspicious of someone like that nowadays, but that naivety will probably never 100% disappear from my personality, the same way it's remained part of Goku's personality even after Tao Pai-Pai pulled the same trick.

Is that a serious fault of mine? Of course! Is it a fault of Goku's? Of course! But is it terrible, unrealistic writing? I would have to disagree.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Bear » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:03 pm

Bear wrote:...a “ChiChi Scene.” A scene that is incredibly pointless with a very minor character/characters lamenting over talking about a character/ characters, which can sometimes take up a whole episode (Ep. 137, correct me if I’m wrong, has long flashback)...
Just realised it was episode 128 that I was talking about
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Noah » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:19 pm

Questions:

- Why Z and not DB? I can count people who watched Z to the death and never had a chance to watch DB properly.

- Why just two links that works specifically with people who resides in either USA or New Zealand/Australia? Sure this is a english forum but there also many people here who reside in South America or Europe, so although I think this thread has a good purpose at the same time it limits other people from join in.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Ajay » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:25 pm

Noah wrote:Questions:

- Why Z and not DB? I can count people who watched Z to the death and never had a chance to watch DB properly.

- Why just two links that works specifically with people who resides in either USA or New Zealand/Australia? Sure this is a english forum but there also many people here who reside in South America or Europe, so although I think this thread has a good purpose at the same time it limits other people from join in.
First question would have been answered if you clicked the link saying 'Click through for details'.

Second question: because those are the only legal streaming services I'm aware of. I don't believe legal Z streaming exists in Europe. If it does, then I will happily add it to the list.

They're just helpful suggestions. Obviously you're not excluded if you don't use them. Heck, I'm not even using them. Weird conclusion to come to.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Apollo Fungus » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:07 pm

Like I said in the announcement thread, this'll be pretty interesting for me since this is the first time I'll have ever properly watched Dragon Ball Z (I mainly got into the series through the manga and video games, since that's all Ireland had at the time). I'm gonna do a mix of episode by episode thoughts, and then some overall opinions/answering one or two of Ajay's questions. So let's get started!

Language watched: Japanese

Version watched: An encode of the Orange Bricks (since as mentioned in the announcement thread, I couldn't get Dragon Box/Broadcast Audio versions). I mention this just to warn that whatever commentary I may make on aesthetics or visuals may not be completely accurate due to the changed colors, cropped aspect ratio, etc.

Episode 1

-The voice acting all round is really good. Gohan's antics could have been annoying, but Nozawa's performance makes him unspeakably adorable to the point where I felt bad when anything happened to him. There's a youth to Toshio Furukawa's performance of Piccolo that, despite his claims of wanting to take over the world and great power, that adds something to his character that I never got from the dub (it's the same feeling I got listening to Nobutoshi Hayashi's Guts in the 1997 Berserk anime). Hell, even the farmer managed to come off as an incredibly terrified man in the few lines that he got, even though it would have been really easy to make him a comedically portrayed buffon who gets killed in a second. That's the power of voice acting!

-Some people brought up a disconnect between Gohan's jungle hijinks and Raditz's arrival, specifically how it felt like the show would arbitrarily cut from one to the other, but I feel like that's deliberate. It makes you forget about the oncoming threat for a while, and makes it all the more impactful when the threat does arrive.

-There's a nice parallel between this episode and the first episode of Dragon Ball, in that they both introduce Goku by doing some woodcutting, and both feature a Son kid dealing with a dangerous tiger. And I think the way they have Gohan running from the tiger is a good way of establishing the difference between him and Goku, who happily takes on and defeats the tiger in Dragon Ball.

-I don't know why, but there's something I find really amusing about how Goku, upon seeing the tiger wearing Gohan's hat, innocently asks them where they got the hat. He doesn't assume the worst (which would be pretty understandable), and instead waits before jumping to any conclusions. It just seems like a very Goku thing for him to do, and I really like it.

Episode 2

-I didn't take much notice of the storyboards, but I do like some of the contrasting shots between Goku and Raditz when they're heading towards Kame House, or the panning shots of their faces.

-I like how Bulma remarking on the Saiyans' treatment of children, whilst holding onto Gohan, is what leads Raditz to taking notice of him, and letting the idea stew in his mind for a while.

-I enjoy the extra material they added in this episode, which does a pretty good job at accentuating points already made in the original and further adding on to it.

-The shot of Goku coming out of the Saiyan pod, with the early morning sun glinting through the mountains, is utterly gorgeous. God, I'd love have that shot framed and put somewhere around the house! Excellent job by the director/storyboard artist Osamu Kasai and background artists Noriyoshi Tsuchī, Hitoshi Nagasaki, Hideaki Edō, and Yūko Īda (I wish I knew who did that shot so I could credit the correct artist, instead of just listing everyone).

-The overall direction for this episode can be a bit slow, but I do appreciate some of the cinematic touches like dramatically lit reaction shots, or the clouds passing over the characters after a shocking revelation. It helps give the viewer time to take in everything that's being said, and to really digest it.

Episode 3

-To go back to the voice acting for a moment, Nozawa's performance of Goku here really helps to convey how much the events so far, particularly Gohan's kidnapping, have affected him.

-I've not talked about the music much, but I feel like there's a better use of it here than in previous episodes. There's a suspense cue used on Piccolo's entrance (which then pops up a few times in the next couple of episodes) that makes it more intimidating, and there's a nicely done dark reprise of Gohan's theme when he's trying to hide under the van from Raditz.

-The artwork in general is pretty standard. There's a couple of dodgy shots, but it overall looks fine. The storyboarding does nothing for me personally, but it works.

-There's a bit more of a slow burn than the last episode. I don't mind slow pacing, especially since it can make things feel all the more grander than if everything was rushed through, but it felt a bit meandering here at times.

-Random thought I never considered before: Goku and Piccolo are very close together in strength. I don't take battle power numbers too seriously, but I found it interesting to think about.

Episode 4

-There's some lovely shots and lighting to add to the Makankosappo's first attempt, and demonstrate how powerful of an attack it is.

-The scene where we cut back to Chi Chi during Goku's torture, though nice for some rudimentary dramatic irony, is too sudden in terms of mood whiplash and too short to feel like anything more than an unnecessary cutaway. Honestly, it's the only bit of anime-exclusive material I would consider being a bit needless at this point.

-I really like how the show cuts to landscape shots during Goku's torture, which shows how loud his screams are when they can be heard across the distant landscapes, and just before Gohan breaks free, which adds to the sense of mystery and tension about this sudden power level.

-On that note, I quite like the shot of the debris falling, and then Gohan's hat coming into the shot. A nice way of showing that something's changed.

Episode 5

-I don't have too much to say about this episode, except for one thing: I love the Makankosappo scene. I love the brief delay the beam has between hitting Raditz before it pierces through his armour and hits Goku. I love the two or three shots when the colour scheme changes to a monochromatic blue, except for the bright red blood pouring out of Raditz and Goku. I love the slow pace for when the two fall to the ground; it really makes the impact of the attack that much more cinematic, and I have to give director Kazuhisa Takenōchi major props for the excellent work he pulled off on this scene!

---
Ajay wrote:- How do you find Raditz as a character? He drops a lot of memorable info bombs, but is he memorable outside of that?
Raditz is the kind of character that doesn't stick around for very long, but he packs a hell of an impact. It's not just the way that he changes everything in Dragon Ball and how he expands the scope of the fictional universe tenfold, but there's also the character himself. Like Piccolo Daimao, he's a deadly serious, heartless being who comes at a complete contrast to previous villains in the series, but he doesn't even have comedic characters to bounce off of like Pilaf & co.

The thing I really like about Raditz is how he looks like nothing we've seen in the show up until now. The world, clothes and general aesthetic of Dragon Ball has always been inspired by various Asian cultures and Western entertainment media (sometimes with a mix of the two), but Raditz is the first character to completely forgo that cultural inspiration. It really does convey that this guy's from another world, what with his unique armor, that massive hair, and that scouter of his!

---

Overall, I'm liking Dragon Ball Z, and I'm eager to check out more of the show in the coming weeks and months. Thanks for giving me the excuse to finally do so, Ajay!

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:14 pm

Preface- Watching via the Japanese language, most of the time however I will be referring to mostly dub names and terms they're just too ingrained and just easier for me to write. When talking about the JPN cast I will mostly be referring to their char names since I only ever watch anime dubbed so I am not similar at all with Japanese VA's beyond the big one's like Nozawa Horikawa etc.

#5

General Thoughts:
Finally.

A great episode. A great episode. Just when the sitaution looked dire, out comes Gohan and this only deepens the mystery about his "potential", managed to hurt Raditz then it all went away in an instance? Like Raditz said, it seems to be controlled by emotion (foreshadowinggggg). That said the moment Raditz knocked him out is a bit silly with the swirling eyes, the scene was supposed to be serious but I couldn't help but laugh. Goku then grabs Raditz while Piccolo charges up and this actually tense even all these years later, then boom the piercing of both Goku and Raditz... it is... really brutal. Piccolo then decides to gloat to Raditz, after all the shit Raditz has said and done, you can tell Piccolo wanted to tell him he got the last laugh, and then convenience happens, I find it a little to convenient that the scouter now can also act as a walkie talkie. How does it work? Had Vegeta and Nappa been listening to Raditz the entire time? Did they also conveniently happen to tune in when we got to the thick of the battle? How good is the range of the scouters? This seems pretty advance tech, being a year away yet they can still get a transmittion also it seems the scouter can pick up other voices not just Raditz's.

Why did Vegeta get rid of his scouter in the Namek arc? It seems the scouter can do much more than sense battle powers, he could have used to spy etc.

Anyway cool tease for Nappa and Vegeta also had no idea Super Saiyan was mentioned this early, for some reason thought it was only brought up first on Namek. This is actually a cool surprise seems Toriyama had some sort of plan at least, that is one thing I can appreciate in these 5 episodes, the seeds are laid out very well.

Goku's death was handled very well, and very creepy imagery too.

Entertainment Factor:
Highly entertained. The first time the 20 mins FLEW by.

Animation:
Mostly fine, no real issues but nothing amazing stood out either. Of course we get to see the miscoloured Vegeta and Nappa!

Music:
No real specific comment here. Great.

Japanese cast:
Top notch acting all round, Nozawa makes a conniving child, the actors did a good job of portraying pain and the debut of Horikawa! Can't wait for that battle!

Overall score and opinion:
Finally a good episode. #1-3 were not good, #4 was okay but this good, I think it rounded off this mini arc pretty well and sets the seeds up nicely. Strong tension and atmosphere, good teasing and a sense of tragedy make this episode memorable despite a bit of too much convenience towards the end. 8.5/10.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now to answer Ajay's questions now I finished:
How do you find Raditz as a character? He drops a lot of memorable info bombs, but is he memorable outside of that?
Like I said before, sure he drops a lot of info but his charachter works purely because he is still able to be a threat and took Goku sacrificing himself to end him. His first thing was to take out Goku by kneeing him, there was more to Raditz here. Was he memorable? I'd say so he caused Goku to die how can he not be memorable?!
Goku's death at the hands of Piccolo arguably has a lot of weight if you have the full context of the series up to this point, but if you saw Z first, do you recall how this impacted you?
Oof, trying to make my brain cells work I was only what 5 at the time? I really can't remember. I do remember Raditz's arrival but after that I just remember the Vegeta Goku fight, most of memories are with the Namek/Freeza arc, I still vividly remember Goku going SS and hearing Japanese Freeza on CN- (though I am still lost on this, I swear I remember there being a CN logo maybe it is just memories clustering together).

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Ajay » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:06 pm

You guys are seriously blowing me away with your enthusiasm. Reading these detailed posts is so so so entertaining and rewarding. Keep it up!

-

Episode 3

General Thoughts: On the whole, this isn't the most eventful episode ever. Much of the first half involves them going over what happened in the last episode, and working out what to do. It's not until Piccolo shows up that things kick into the gear.

The dynamic between Piccolo and Goku is initially a little tense, but it's hard for me to put myself in the shoes of someone unaware that Piccolo will eventually come to be as much of a protagonist as Goku himself. Either way, it's impossible not to enjoy their conversation before they head off to battle. I love how smug they both are.

Entertainment Factor: I can't say this is my favourite episode. It feels like a bridge to better things. Too much dawdling around. It doesn't offer much on its own.

Animation: While Takenouchi's direction is pretty good, and that's exactly what makes Piccolo and Goku's interactions so interesting, his storyboarding is pretty bland, packed with very flat compositions.

This marks Mitsuo Shindo's first episode on Z. His style is so at odds with everyone else's on the series so far. It's very angular compared the designated designs during this portion of the show. I don't dislike it, but it's definitely incongruous.

Random tidbit: we do seem to get our first look at Tadayoshi Yamamuro in Z! Shindo's pretty intense with his corrections. You don't really get to see raw Yamamuro until the Freeza arc.

Serviceable visuals, but nothing really write home about at this point.

Episode 4

General Thoughts: Far and away the best episode of these first five, for me. The action is so well put together, but I just love the dynamic between the three, in particular Goku and Piccolo. Much like the last episode, there's such a great bit of rivalry-filled banter (I can't think of a better word) between them. The ending is such a great cliffhanger, and good way to round off the foreshadowing we got in episode 1.

Entertainment Factor: About as good as it gets, honestly. Amazing action, amazing dialogue, great music. It has it all.

Animation: Yoshihiro Ueda's storyboard and direction is incredible. While a lot of it is lifted directly from the manga, the newer content is seamless and just as cool.

On the direction front, I really enjoyed Ueda's use of nature to showcase shifts in action. For example, a butterfly flies away just before the fight begins, and birds fly out of the bushes just before Gohan breaks from the pod. It's a pretty common technique across the medium, but it's nice and effective. You see it in a lot in westerns - tumbleweeds flying by before a quickdraw. Same principle here, and I love love love it.

Animation-wise, this is Seigasha's first episode on Z, and they're really giving it their all. Knowing that they'll soon become one of the best studios on the series, seeing their humble beginnings here (obviously putting their work on DB) is nice. You've got Masahiro Shimanuki with the Makankosappo power-up - the art is absolutely stunning. There's also the introduction of Kazuya Hisada as a key animator - he later becomes a supervisor. Young talent making their debut! Always nice to see.

Episode 5

General Thoughts: You know, as much as I love the content of this episode, I really hate how it's delivered. This once again marks the return of Kazuhisa Takenouchi, and again, his storyboard is so bland. Last time the direction just about made up for things, but I'm not convinced it does here. Nothing flows as it should, so although Goku's death manages to have impact in isolation thanks to stellar performances, everything around it is so haphazard.

Even before this with the finale of the fight, the difference in direction between Ueda and Takenouchi is huge. Last House doesn't help, and I'll touch on that in the appropriate section, but even putting aside that, the core of the action feels seriously weak.

Entertainment Factor: I suppose what separates these types of iffy episodes from iffy episodes of Super, for example, is that the content is still engaging. It's filled with turning points - it's hard to write that off entirely because of poor execution.

Animation: As I said, this is another episode from Last House. Their last episode was episode 1, and yet they're here again after only four weeks. Those punishing time constraints absolutely show this time around. While Uchiyama didn't bother me in the slightest in the first episode, his weaknesses that come to define his contributions throughout the rest of the series are here in full display. Comparing his Piccolo beam charge to Shimanuki's in the previous episode is seriously night and day.

At the very least, the Harmony cel as Goku dies is nice, and some of the effects work and expressions right at the very beginning look great. I guess the fact that the defining moments of the episode are reasonably polished is enough to forgive the shortcoming of the rest... maybe?

A few notes: we're all aware of the Vegeta and Nappa miscolouring that came as a result of Toei having no colour references for them yet, but there are some bizarre discrepancies between other scenes, too. For example, the characters in the ship change colours [urlhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRBo5anWAAAr-uG.jpg]between scenes.[/url] Initially I thought it was just the difference between the camera being inside and outside the glass, but they vary regardless. Odd!

-

- Goku's death at the hands of Piccolo arguably has a lot of weight if you have the full context of the series up to this point, but if you saw Z first, do you recall how this impacted you?

I wrote this question, yet I don't really have an answer. I have absolutely no memory of how I felt about this when I first saw it. As an adult, the impact is there to an extent, but it's not really an intense emotional feeling, it's more me thinking to myself, "Wow, with Goku gone, I really like how much that raises the stakes having just established that more Saiyans will be coming relatively soon!" It's a neat little way of emphasising the first real hook of this arc.

Looking forward to the next batch of episodes. I have very fond memories of one particular episode and I'm excited to see whether it still holds up.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:29 pm

TrunksTrevelyan0064 wrote:As someone who has been extremely, ridiculously naive at times, I can totally see how Goku would be conflicted the moment Raditz starts pretending to show remorse. No matter how much of an awful scumbag you are, if you express remorse to me and are good enough of an actor to make it seem genuine, I might fall for it. Granted, I've wisened up over the years and I would be far more suspicious of someone like that nowadays, but that naivety will probably never 100% disappear from my personality, the same way it's remained part of Goku's personality even after Tao Pai-Pai pulled the same trick.

Is that a serious fault of mine? Of course! Is it a fault of Goku's? Of course! But is it terrible, unrealistic writing? I would have to disagree.
I guess it's just I would have least preferred it if there was some sort of monologue from Goku for that moment just so we know what is going through his mind, it just seemed so out of place to me for him to suddenly let go like that. That actaully bring me to another point.

What was the point of that scene in the first place? What was Toriyama trying to accomplish because in #4 all of a sudden the tail thing was dropped, Goku said it wouldn't work as Raditz could it cut it off. Which then begs the question why was that his big plan to begin with? Why was Raditz so scared if he could cut it off? In my opinion it is sloppy writing as it seems like Toriyama needed Goku to die and so needed to make him not grab the tail so he suddenly thought I know let's just say Raditz can cut his tail off. This whole tail thing is mess, now I think about it, it does cheapen the death of Goku slightly.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Snart » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:30 pm

I am really enjoying this so far! Excited to see how far I'll go, and I'm already waiting for tomorrow so I can watch the next 5 episodes. I am watching it it Japanese, but I will be naming the characters by their Funimation names, as that's what I grew up with and came to know them all by.

As for Episodes 1-5, I think they do a pretty good job of introducing returning characters, even for people who haven't watched the original series. The original group (Bulma, Krillin, Roshi, and Goku) have some pretty great interaction, and things that kind of fell off as DBZ ran on, such as Krillin's cynical side were shown off. Piccolo's introduction as an enemy is handled very well, and new watchers will know he's a bad guy just by seeing the reactions of the gang when he arrives at Kame House. Gohan's little filler/introduction is good but really just goes on for too long. I DID however enjoy the little foreshadowing to his hidden powers when he sort of flies up to that little tree branch above the cave entrance.

The few things that take me out of this first little section aren't intrusive enough to take me out of the episode, but things like Raditz's wasted potential as a character, as well as the god awful color palette they gave Vegeta (No official colors provided I'm assuming?) bothered me enough to remain in my thoughts after finishing the episodes.

As for the looooong filler coming up, I have actually never watched it, so I am hoping that it isn't too much of a train wreck.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by alakazam^ » Sun Dec 17, 2017 10:29 am

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Why did Vegeta get rid of his scouter in the Namek arc? It seems the scouter can do much more than sense battle powers, he could have used to spy etc.
He did, when Freeza raided the Namekkian village. Then, all the scouters got destroyed and he had already learned how to sense ki so it wasn't needed anymore.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by MajinMan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Better late than never.

I actually finished the 5 episodes like 3 days ago, but didn't really find the time to write a post. I'll do more of an overall thoughts.

-

Episodes 1-5

Language: Japanese.

General Thoughts: The first episode is good. Really solid overall. The Gohan introduction is well done. I like the parallels to DB episode 1. Raditz is also a very threatening villain. From the moment he lands on Earth you know he's one mean fucker. The way he completely outclasses Piccolo is shocking (at least it is if you watch DB first).

The second episode is a giant info dump, but it's done so well. Before the info dump, though, we have a lot of great interactions with the main cast. Everyone freaking out over the fact that Goku has a kid is wonderful. The differences between Goku and Gohan are explored even more here when Gohan reveals that he doesn't want to be a martial artist when he grows up. And then Raditz shows up. His mere presence is scary, making you wonder how they can possibly defeat him. Goku's origin story is also well done, except for one part. The one thing that annoys me till this day is the fact that the Muten Roshi knew about Goku and his past, yet this was NEVER hinted at earlier. Did he just forget? Because apparently Grandpa Gohan was the one who told him about Goku. I don't like the fact that he knew all this.

The third is the weakest one from the 5. I like seeing Goku and Piccolo team up, but nothing else really happens. Their alliance is still great and unexpected. The battle itself starts off slow here, but the revelation that there are two stronger Saiyans out there is a good twist.

The fourth episode is awesome. Great looking animation and fight. The makankosappo being strong enough to kill Raditz is really cool. I like that the characters don't need to match their opponents battle power and can use techniques in order to win, although this pretty much never happens again. One small issue I have with this episode is Goku letting go of Raditz's tail. It is explained later on that Raditz could always cut it off, but it's weird to me how he would even muster up the strength to do that considering he was on the ground the whole time Goku was holding his tail. It just seems weird. The cliffhanger with Gohan is a nice way to end the episode.

The final episode is a shocker. Goku actually dying comes off as a big surprise. Gohan saving Goku was awesome. The revelation that the other two Saiyans will be arriving in a year creates a lot of tension. Goku dying also raises a lot of questions, like will he be revived soon? What is the afterlife like (Urunai Baba and dead Grandpa Gohan basically confirmed there is one)? What about Piccolo and Gohan? Lots of cool little things will happen in the next few episodes.

Entertainment Factor: Very enjoyable. I really love the early Z era and how much new stuff it introduces. The new lore is great, the fight with Raditz is great, and Piccolo being an anti-hero is great. Lots of great character interactions as well sprinkled througout. I felt that it was paced well overall. The only thing I wish was different is the Muten Roshi bit. It just doesn't make much sense.

Animation: I'm far from an animation expert, but these episodes looked pretty great overall in my opinion. Episode 4 in particular is the highlight with great action sequences and art. Nothing bad so far.

Questions: The show does a great job with characterizing Gohan early on. While the Z split isn't necessary at all, it is a good splitting point if there ever had to be one. There's a large timeskip, the biggest in the series so far, a new character, and a giant lore drop about the main character's history. No better time to create a new anime.

Raditz himself isn't all too great in the grand scheme of things, but he is linked with so many iconic moments it's hard to not like him. His exposition is some of the best in the series, and he actually brings in a great deal of tension. He's a great short-term villain.

And as for seeing Goku die for the first time, I can't remember. I watched Z first like most fans in the U.S. did, but that was so long ago that I can't remember what I felt. I also skipped a lot of episodes due to being young and not really understanding schedules and stuff.

Overall, a great experience. The Saiyan arc is in my top 3 arcs for the entire series. I really, really like it. I'm happy I joined this rewatch because it allows me to have an excuse to go back and rewatch on of my favorite arcs.
Heroes come and go, but legends are forever.

60.

Rest in peace.

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JazzMazz
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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by JazzMazz » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:41 am

Language for rewatch: Japanese

General Thoughts:

Episode 1: It was decent enough beginning to the show. It did a decent job of establishing the characters over from Dragonball. The shenanigins with Gohan I think go on a touch too long, but at the very least they establish his character and foreshadow future plot points. The mystery around Raditz is really well presented and his a truly ominous villain at this point.

Episode 2: It was the big exposition episode. Loads of interesting narrative stuff, and does do a good good of establishing the characters across from Dragonball. The exposition was all fairly interesting, but not all of it is given time to sink in, and the direction makes it come off a little hammy at places.

Episode 3: Probably the most boring episode of this lot. The direction is decent, but the storyboarding really doesn't compare to the previous two and their isn't a whole lot of interesting stuff going on outside of a few key scenes. Goku and Piccolo's conversation was a definite highlight.

Episode 4: Easily the most entertaining and well executed episode of this bunch. The action is fantastic, and though the episode is mainly just a fight, the character interactions and content with in are enjoyable.

Episode 5:The content for this episode is fantastic. Really gripping stuff. However, as people have previously mentioned, the actual execution really isn't that there. Goku's death and the Makankosappo scene were easily the nicest parts of the episode.

Entertainment factor:

Episode 1: Though it can feel like its dragging on a tad to long, I would be lying if I said it wasn't at least engaging me throughout the duration.

Episode 2: I have to say it was less compelling than the first episode. It was still engaging due to there being a lot of narrative content thats decently presented, but I feel that a lot of the stuff was kind of glossed over, with only a few things being given time to adequately sink in.

Episode 3: Probably the most boring episode of these 5. Despite having some pretty decent direction, their is a whole lot of dawdling going on here which isn't particularly interesting.

Episode 4: Easily the most exciting episode of the bunch. The action is well executed, the direction is fantastic, and the content is interesting. What more do you need to ask for.

Episode 5: Again, its really the content of the episode that makes it engaging. The directing and execution really isn't up to scratch here, espicially coming off last episodes.

Animation:

Episode 1: Considering its an Uchimaya episode, its very polished with a few bits of background animation here and there.

Episode 2: The art was nice, and though there wasn't masses of animation, I must say that the storyboarding was fantastic, if not particularly well implemented by the Osamu himself.

Episode 3: Though there was nothing particularly noticeable about the animation itself, Shindo's style is easily the most angular that has appeared up to this point and definitely standouts for it.

Episode 4: Though not there best showing, Seigasha really proves themselves as being one of the most competent animation studios on the show this episode. Its a real spectacle thats helped by the great direction of the episode.

Episode 5: Easily the roughest out of this batch. The art isn't the greatest and the animation is again pretty limited. Outside of a view nice effects, the Makankosappo, and that neat harmony Cell, there is nothing really noteable about it. Even the storyboard and backgrounds are fairly meh for the most part.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Derf » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:33 am

Just watched Episodes 1-5. I didn't take notes on each individual episodes unfortunately, but I do have a few observations!

Rewatch language: Japanese
  • Early Goku, Krillin, and Bulma all just look so young. Whether or not it was an intentional idea to age Goku as the series progressed or it's simply a byproduct of the stylistic change the show undergoes following the Saiyan arc, the early character designs really fit this show's time period.
  • Raditz really is just such an underrated villain. I would have loved to have seen him in action alongside Nappa and Vegeta in the upcoming fight.
  • Episode 2 should just be called "Dragon Ball Exposition."
  • I really miss the effects work of the early ki blasts. Both the Kamehameha and Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon (sorry, grew up on the dub. Old habits die hard.) have such fantastic effects work that are really lacking in both later episodes of Z and Super. I love the "gritty" look of Goku's Kamehameha in particular.
  • Episode 5 easily has the least going for it storyboard wise and animation wise, but the shading really stood out to me this episode. Particularly on a closeup of Nappa before they depart and on the final closeup of Goku before he dies.
  • I had totally forgotten that Goku's body disappears from Earth when he dies this go around - does that ever happen again!? I seem to remember Tien and Yamcha's bodies in particular remaining on Earth despite being allowed to train with King Kai, or am I mistaken?
Onto 5-10!

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Re: Dragon Ball Z - Episodes 1-5 - Discussion Thread [Rewatch - Week 1]

Post by Metalwario64 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:00 am

One thing I'm really enjoying about this rewatch is knowing more about the animators this time around. I can pick out Yamamuro from Shindo now in these earlier episodes (the earliest I could tell before was in the Freeza arc), but the Seigasha group still has me a bit stumped. I can tell Shimanuki from Takeuchi, but I still don't know the styles of Tate and Hisada. I also see the names of Yōko Iizuka and Masako Misumi who I'm unfamiliar with. I saw an animated GIF of Iizuka's genga from Goku's fight with Freeza, and it was pretty heavily corrected. I haven't seen any other discussion about these animators. Anyone have any insight about these animators' work, or is it hard to tell due to them being heavily corrected?

Of course, the Japanese version is still excellent, and it always feels so fresh going back to it after watching a lot of Kai in Japanese lately for my fix. I may have more detailed thoughts in later batches, but this last week was hectic.
"Kenshi is sitting down right now drawing his mutated spaghetti monsters thinking he's the shit..."--Neptune Kai
"90% of you here don't even know what you're talking about (there are a few that do). But the things you say about these releases are nonsense and just plain dumb. Like you Metalwario64"--final_flash

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