Theory: Why Toriyama stops using certain characters as fighters.

[BWri]

Do you think it's because he simply gets bored of drawing them? I just had the image in my head of him creating the concepts for characters such as Piccolo and Tien and imagining all these fight he wants to draw with his exciting new character, then he finally gets to draw them and give them cathartic character moments and ... well, now he's bored . It's honestly a reality all creative types face. The work has to be fun for you before you really dive into it and once you feel you've gotten your mileage out of a character, well, why use them anymore? After that little image, I think I understand Toriyama a little bit more, at least as a fellow creator, but the fan in me is still frustrated that such awesome characters and concepts in the series aren't explored with more depth and often times dropped entirely.

I see now why a character like Piccolo, my favorite mind you, could be forcibly dropped out of prominence in such a major way after having such a major impact on the previous arc. He had his biggest coolest fight and his biggest or arguably second biggest character character moment, so maybe Toriyama felt he'd done every possible thing he wanted to do with the character, shown off all the techniques he'd created for him and showcased him in every possible way that he wanted. And if that's the case, everything after makes so much more sense. Why new rivals for Goku get dropped after as soon as they end up fighting him. I thought about this as I thought of the idea of Jiren surpassing Beerus. While I don't think that's the case, I do think it's possible and I can look no further than this possible Toriyama boredom as the culprit especially if it happens like this, with Jiren being Goku's new rival and Beerus and Goku not having the closure of a final fight on equal grounds. It's too early to tell if that's the case, but if it is then has Toriyama boredom struck again?

[Anime Kitten]

I could definitely see this being the case during the original serialization of the manga, but in Super's case, I don't think Toriyama would stop using characters such as Beerus or Hit so soon, if only because of their popularity. It only makes sense that he (and of course Shueisha and Toei) would make as much profit off these characters as possible until their popularity dies down significantly.

I could be wrong, but that's how I'd picture it, at least.

[KBABZ]

I think it's a combination of moving on and wanting to introduce bigger and better opponents, which naturally means that certain characters will be overshadowed and fade away. I mean, Yamcha was already out of his league I felt during the King Piccolo arc despite the broken leg; Tien was barely able to be competitive against henchman Drum after all.

[sintzu]

I think he just doesn't know what to do with them, especially after introducing Saiyans. His main character and focus is on Goku so whatever he gives him he can give it to Vegeta and Gohan as well due to them being the same race as Goku but he can't give Piccolo and Tien Ssj forms because apart from them not being Saiyans, they don't have hair.

[Vijay]

To answer your question, I might as well say it falls under the category of :

1. Chicken or egg? Which came 1st?

2. Did Toriyama swap Gohan with Goku (in Boo Arc) cuz he was not popular or was his character not allowed to do anything cool, hence his character sidelined?

I always felt Piccolo & Tienshinhan to be exceptionally gifted fighters. Had Toriyama not bein such Goku fanboy, those guys would've rivalled Killua (HXH), Sesshoumaru (Inuyasha) in terms of superb antihero characters leaving their major protagonist of their shows in the dust

Even if take into consideration of 23rd TB, Piccolo was heavily loaded with techniques (Physical elongation, Gigantism, Arm regeneration, Locked-on Chi Blast, Laser eye & oral beams, After-Image, deadly Hand-to-Hand strikes & these are just tip of the iceberg). Yet Toriyama deviously gave plot-armor to Goku dat he'll be able to counter against such Demonic being while only being a teenager trained by an aged God. It just doesnt tally.

Likewise, Tien displayed vast array of skills in 22nd & 23rd TB. Be it Dodonpa, Solar Flare, 4-Armed Attack, ShishennoKen (Body split), Eye Laser Beams, or shooting freakin Kamehameha (@ Jackie Chun). Despite all these, Goku would be favored by AT & would go on to win using simple manueuvers

As much I'd say Akira Toriyama was an exceptional writter/drawer, I'd say he tapped-out at Namek Arc as far battle creativity goes. Base Goku vs Frieza was the final moments on could see Toriyama's passion on formulating creative fighting style & attacks.

[Lord Beerus]

There's no real complicated answer to this. Toriyama's usage and utilization of certain member of the cast boils down to how much he personally views he'll get the most entertainment out of and would be best suited for moving the story in the most seamless manner possible.

[Michsi]

Honest answer? I think they just haven't thought up of any good way to have the non-saiyans keep up with the saiyans. Piccolo had two fusions to help him in the Namek arc and Cell arc, but once that option was no longer available, his growth stopped. Saiyans can just keep getting transformations, so their growth is easy and profitable (new hair color, new figurine ) so as long as nothing as design defining like a new form gets invented for the humans and Piccolo, they'll just keep struggling to stay relevant.

[Whatever]

Because Toriyama stops wanting to use them.
It should tell you enough that both the Kaioken and the Ultimate form are only used by saiyans despite it being a generic power up that any race can use,especially the latest which any of the z fighters can get by simply sitting on their ass for a few hours.

[Michsi]

Because Toriyama stops wanting to use them.
It should tell you enough that both the Kaioken and the Ultimate form are only used by saiyans despite it being a generic power up that any race can use,especially the latest which any of the z fighters can get by simply sitting on their ass for a few hours.

The Kaioken does nothing design wise, and I never got the impression that the Ultimate form is something anybody could get - it worked with Gohan because of all that potential he had in him, which was more or less his defining trait as a fighter.

[Whatever]

Because Toriyama stops wanting to use them.
It should tell you enough that both the Kaioken and the Ultimate form are only used by saiyans despite it being a generic power up that any race can use,especially the latest which any of the z fighters can get by simply sitting on their ass for a few hours.

The Kaioken does nothing design wise, and I never got the impression that the Ultimate form is something anybody could get - it worked with Gohan because of all that potential he had in him, which was more or less his defining trait as a fighter.

The Kaioken design wise will do the same thing it does for Goku,fiery aura.
The Ultimate form is pretty much the Elder Kai's power up,anyone can get it and get stronger easily for free,not only does it unlock your full potential but it increases your power many times beyond its natural limits.
Anybody can get it as long as they convince the Elder Kai,heck the Elder kai suggested he unlocks Goku's potential before the tournament.

[Michsi]

Because Toriyama stops wanting to use them.
It should tell you enough that both the Kaioken and the Ultimate form are only used by saiyans despite it being a generic power up that any race can use,especially the latest which any of the z fighters can get by simply sitting on their ass for a few hours.

The Kaioken does nothing design wise, and I never got the impression that the Ultimate form is something anybody could get - it worked with Gohan because of all that potential he had in him, which was more or less his defining trait as a fighter.

The Kaioken design wise will do the same thing it does for Goku,fiery aura.

That's just it, fiery aura is not enough to impress anymore. There is a reason it got replaced with the SSJ form.

The Ultimate form is pretty much the Elder Kai's power up,anyone can get it and get stronger easily for free,not only does it unlock your full potential but it increases your power many times beyond its natural limits.
Anybody can get it as long as they convince the Elder Kai,heck the Elder kai suggested he unlocks Goku's potential before the tournament.

I never thought the Elder Kai's ability would be any different than what Guru did on Namek would it be performed on anyone else but Gohan.

[ABED]

I always felt Piccolo & Tienshinhan to be exceptionally gifted fighters. Had Toriyama not bein such Goku fanboy, those guys would've rivalled Killua (HXH), Sesshoumaru (Inuyasha) in terms of superb antihero characters leaving their major protagonist of their shows in the dust

Even if take into consideration of 23rd TB, Piccolo was heavily loaded with techniques (Physical elongation, Gigantism, Arm regeneration, Locked-on Chi Blast, Laser eye & oral beams, After-Image, deadly Hand-to-Hand strikes & these are just tip of the iceberg). Yet Toriyama deviously gave plot-armor to Goku dat he'll be able to counter against such Demonic being while only being a teenager trained by an aged God. It just doesnt tally.

I find this analysis to be rather silly. Why wouldn't you want a writer to be a fan of his main character? Even at their best, neither Tenshinhan nor Piccolo were going to overshadow the main character.

And plot armor? Goku's the main character and since when do cool techniques mean a character should win the fight? I don't see the logic any of your post. Goku defeated Piccolo Daimao once before. He trained and refined his skills and learned new ones, but because he was trained by an old God, that's illogical that he could defeat Piccolo again because Piccolo can grow his arms and grow larger? Sometimes the simplest moves are the most effective.

[RandomGuy96]

The whole point of the 23rd Budokai was to rub in that Tenshinhan and Piccolo are idiots that waste their time on flashy useless bullshit techniques. Goku almost literally tells them this several times:

-After Tenshinhan divides his power by creating duplicates.

-After Piccolo nails himself with his own homing ki blast.

-After Piccolo gasses himself out with a gigantic inefficient shockwave attack.

-After Piccolo grows giant which doesn't seem to make him much more powerful but does let Goku weave around him with ease and free Kami.

[Whatever]

That's just it, fiery aura is not enough to impress anymore. There is a reason it got replaced with the SSJ form.

Yes and that reason is because Toriyama wanted to make it easier by not having to ink the hair in the manga.

I never thought the Elder Kai's ability would be any different than what Guru did on Namek would it be performed on anyone else but Gohan.

Why?The Elder kai literally tells what it does and from his word its better than what Guru did,in fact knowing about his abilities mean that he had used that ability on someone before Gohan.

[KBABZ]

Yes and that reason is because Toriyama wanted to make it easier by not having to ink the hair in the manga.

That was an influence on the design of Super Saiyan, not the concept itself. If Toriyama really wanted to save on ink that badly he'd have SS be a permanent transformation, or one Goku just kept on all the time.

[Michsi]

Yes and that reason is because Toriyama wanted to make it easier by not having to ink the hair in the manga.

That's the story behind it's conception, the reason it became the saiyan's trademark form was because it was so eye-catching and popular.

Why?The Elder kai literally tells what it does and from his word its better than what Guru did,in fact knowing about his abilities mean that he had used that ability on someone before Gohan.

Yes, we know what it does, but I always under the impression that only Gohan could make such a huge jump in power, because he is the one with that hidden, bottomless pit of power or potential or what have you. Not saying it wouldn't work on anyone else, just that it wouldn't be anywhere as impressive as Gohan's power-up.

[Whatever]

That's the story behind it's conception, the reason it became the saiyan's trademark form was because it was so eye-catching and popular.

I don't see what that has to do with anything,Super saiyan 2 looks barely different and people like it,Ultra Instinct and Ultimate form looks barely any different from the base and people still like it,the form is as popular as the character that uses it,if it is used by someone popular then the form would be popular too even if it only changes the eye color.

Yes, we know what it does, but I always under the impression that only Gohan could make such a huge jump in power, because he is the one with that hidden, bottomless pit of power or potential or what have you. Not saying it wouldn't work on anyone else, just that it wouldn't be anywhere as impressive as Gohan's power-up.

Yeah it would,in theory anyone whose base form is stronger than base Gohan would be a stronger Ultimate as well,since the big boost does not come from the potential unlock but the many times beyond your natural limit thing.

Then again thats using common sense,potential on dragonball means nothing and is only as important as the plot dictates it to.
After all the humans became stronger than Raditz in 1 year despite Goku being barely 1/3 of Raditz with 3 years of training under the same training methods the humans underwent.

[KBABZ]

Super saiyan 2 looks barely different and people like it

To be fair it wasn't called SS2 until quite a while after that, until Goku says out all the forms for Buu it was simply "past the Super Saiyan barrier".

[Baggie_Saiyan]

To be fair SS2 is a lot different on Goku and incidentally Goku rocks the best SS2. I can see why people would like it, that is why I do and people probably originally liked on Gohna cuz of the hype etc of that moment of transformation same for UI Goku also I don't see how UI Goku is "barely any different" considering he has completely different eyes, the hair is different and the aura is completely different too. That is not barely to me.

[OhHiRenan]

I see people complain all the time about how Toriyama drops characters/doesn't care about characters, but I never see anyone mention that Toriyama only phases out characters once their character arcs are over. I can't think of a single major character who's dropped before developing. He doesn't keep the focus on character who can't grow with the story anymore, it's as simple as that. Sure, you can make up a bunch of scenarios where characters stay relevant, but that inherently changes the story Toriyama was trying to write. I think it's a good thing he's so comfortable dropping characters, even if it means the original series ends with Saiyans in the spotlight. It doesn't bother me that Kuririn, Yamcha, and Tenshinhan all drop off, because they all had great character arcs.