Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

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Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by GreatJaiyaman » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:42 am

What specifically about the Garlic Jr saga do you like or dont like?
Me personally, I've never had a problem with the arc, it has plenty of action, the plot is simple enough, and i like the trio of Gohan, Kuririn and Piccolo, it was pretty refreshing after the Goku Frieza fight to shift the focus elsewhere, as Goku is nowhere in sight
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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by supersaiyandoctor » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:46 am

I quite like the Garlic Jr saga and how it gives the others more time to shine against the villain. The only thing I didn't like was how they kept Vegeta off world again instead of him being in the fight as well.

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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by TheZFighter » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:57 am

Pros:

Got to see Gohan, Krillin, Piccolo, Kami and Popo (sort of) taking the fight to an enemy.
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Bulma, Oolong, Yamcha, Puar, Roshi and Chi-Chi infected by the Black Water Mist.
Piccolo pretending to be infected after Yamcha beat him.

Cons:

Icarus.
No Tien and Chiaotzu.
No Vegeta (vs Garlic Jr).
Not enough Yajirobe/ Korin action.

Personally I've always quite enjoyed the Garlic Jr saga.
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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:44 am

Pro: It's short
It was nice seeing how the other characters fared without Goku
Kami and Mr. Popo have agency
The final episode was sad but effective

Cons: Despite being short, its pacing is still sluggish
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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by Grimlock » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:51 am

I don't think there's any "pro" in this saga. I must have watched one or two episodes and it was enough for me to drop it already. Too boring to keep watching it.

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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:52 am

ABED wrote:Pro: It's short
It was nice seeing how the other characters fared without Goku
Kami and Mr. Popo have agency
The final episode was sad but effective

Cons: Despite being short, its pacing is still sluggish
Pretty much sums my thoughts up on it entirely. It's great to see the other characters have to function and fight against a threat without Goku ever coming in to the picture, though I do wish it had included Tenshinhan and Chiaotzu, as well as not having Yamcha get infected as well, so that he could have joined in on the fighting. Vegeta not being there I'm fine with given where he is as a character at that point in the timeline, though the idea of seeing him try to fight a character like Garlic Jr., someone who might well be weaker than him but impossible to kill due to his immortality, might have been interesting to see. If done right, anyway.

The final episode (assuming you mean the Kuririn's proposal one?) I'd argue to be one of, if not the, best filler episode the franchise has ever gotten, hell, maybe even one of the best episodes counting "canon" material as well. I'm probably a bit biased since it's focusing on Kuririn, but it's just so great to see a character study piece like that episode, that focuses on their emotions and their motivations in an entirely non-fighting way, and it pulls it off so well. We've never gotten anything like that anywhere else in the franchise, not even with the Bardock/Trunks specials, and it's a shame honestly.
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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by ulisa » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:31 pm

I’ve always had a fondness for this saga. It’s neat to see the characters fare without Goku and considering the first DBZ movie with Garlic Junior is what got me into Dragonball, I can forgive the inconsistencies with timeline for once.

Ultimately I think what I like the most about this saga is that we see a lot of Gohan and Krillin interacting. Outside of Goku and Gohan, those two have my favorite relationship so it’s fun to get a heavy dose of that. Yajirobe and Korin are always good for a laugh and it was neat to see Kami directly involved again.

Cons? Well, ChiChi is not at her best here as those overbearing traits are really blown out of proportion for comedy (and I just personally have never found that trope funny) and as others have said, I wish we had gotten to see Yamcha and Tien help fight. Maron gets quite annoying though not enough to ruin it for me. The pacing does drag at times.

Overall, I probably rewatch this one more than most people. I also have a particular fondness for one of Piccolo’s lines though I don’t know if they changed it for the dub as I haven’t seen this in Japanese for a long time. Essentially at the end of the battle, Piccolo says something to the effect of: We did need Goku and he was right here inside Gohan. Anytime that Gohan’s resemblances to his father are brought up, I like it as they seemed to do it a lot in the beginning. Actually—-this battle against Garlic Junior had Gohan mirroring his father’s fight against King Piccolo quite a bit.
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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by Michsi » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:38 pm

Pro: loved the trio of Krillin, Gohan and Piccolo, especially Piccolo and Krillin pretending to be infected.
The return to the mystical side of story after all that space

Con: could've done so much more. Why not involve Tenshinhan and the others.
Pacing.
Garlic Jr is not that great of a villain.
Didn't care much about the Marron subplot even though she's kinda the only thing that was kept from that arc.

Kinda sad it has such a bad rep. :(

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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by Ki Breaker » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:46 pm

I always loved that saga, it's pretty great, short and sweet..

Pros- Gohan and Krillin, Goku not being there for the entirety of it was awesome

Cons- It's filler :(
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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by GreatJaiyaman » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:49 pm

Yeah it would have been nice to see Tien and Vegeta play a part in this arc, they missed an opportunity there
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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:39 am

I remember when Toonami was promotion for this saga, it was pretty descent. Not perfect but at the time I thought it did a good job help setting up the cell arc. Gohan being the hero, reinforce the piccolo and Kami connection, and Krillin's love life comes in the picture since well in the next arc he calls in love with 18.

The negatives I can say is that it almost feels a bit if a waste with Vegeta. Sure he's training and trying to find Goku but it seems like it leads no where.
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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by PacificOceanDub » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:54 pm

I personally love the Garlic Jr. saga. A lot of it probably has to do with the fact that Dead Zone was my favorite movie for the longest time. I’m really glad they chose to write 10 episodes of filler for Garlic Jr. (imagine if they ultimately decided to do the “Dr. Wheelo” Saga :sick: )

The only gripe I have with the saga is the fact that Piccolo and Kuririn can magically turn their eyes pink to create the illusion that they’re under control of the black water.
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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:01 pm

The Garlic Jr arc was fine in concept, but it just felt like halfway into the arc that Toei just ran out of ideas and the arc started to feel like it was dragging even though the arc itself was pretty short.

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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by precita » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:07 pm

Grimlock wrote:I don't think there's any "pro" in this saga. I must have watched one or two episodes and it was enough for me to drop it already. Too boring to keep watching it.
If you literally only watched 1 or 2 episodes of it then you barely saw anything that happened in it and thus don't have a fair opinion on it. Never understood how people judge entire sagas by barely watching anything of it.

The whole thing is only what....9-10 eps? You can watch through it in a day and a half if you want.

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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by Gaffer Tape » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:15 pm

The Garlic Jr. Arc was so much wasted potential. It's obvious why a large filler detour was needed here. This was the point where the anime was in its greatest peril of running out of manga to adapt, so I don't fault it in concept. Following up an out-of-continuity movie was perhaps a bit lazy, but I'll even give them a pass on that. It's smart to use what you have, and at least they chose the one movie that could most adequately bit forced into the timeline. But there is so little creativity to the meat of this story. There is so little meat to this story. The first two episodes are great, and the last episode is great, but everything in between is just atrocious. There was simply not enough substance to stretch that fight out that long. So what could have been a fairly solid five episode arc became an unbearable ten episode arc. The whole thing just reeks of a complete lack of effort.

Use an existing premise. Use footage from the original work to eat up more screen time. Pad out the fighting to ridiculous lengths, even though we could literally write anything we want to at this point, and have the conclusion be the same conclusion from the original work. And then, just to really prove we don't care what we're doing, let's throw in a movie-exclusive character. Oh, not a character from the movie we're following up. That would make too much sense! Let's throw in a character introduced in another movie, one that cannot possibly, under any circumstances, fit into our television continuity. That'll be fun.

As for the positives, though, I agree that the last episode at least might be one of my favorite Dragon Ball episodes, period. And I don't even know if I can technically credit this arc for this, but I will say I loved that the anime had Vegeta leave Earth to go look for Goku. It made a hell of a lot more sense than him staying on Earth and peacefully eating barbecue for at least a year.
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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by Grimlock » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:08 pm

precita wrote:If you literally only watched 1 or 2 episodes of it then you barely saw anything that happened in it and thus don't have a fair opinion on it. Never understood how people judge entire sagas by barely watching anything of it.

The whole thing is only what....9-10 eps? You can watch through it in a day and a half if you want.
Well, I watched Movie 1 as well, and it is the most boring movie of all. The only thing Garlic Junior-related stuff I like is the concept of a villain trying to be god. So I don't think the saga would improve too much in regards to the movie.

And it is a filler saga, which means I'm not missing anything.

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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by precita » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:35 am

Grimlock wrote:
precita wrote:If you literally only watched 1 or 2 episodes of it then you barely saw anything that happened in it and thus don't have a fair opinion on it. Never understood how people judge entire sagas by barely watching anything of it.

The whole thing is only what....9-10 eps? You can watch through it in a day and a half if you want.
Well, I watched Movie 1 as well, and it is the most boring movie of all. The only thing Garlic Junior-related stuff I like is the concept of a villain trying to be god. So I don't think the saga would improve too much in regards to the movie.

And it is a filler saga, which means I'm not missing anything.
So all filler is bad now? I'm surprised you didn't like the first movie, most find it pretty decent.

And again, if you didn't watch the saga you have no idea how it played out with Kami/Mr Popo, Yajirobe/Korin having comic relief moments, or Piccolo, Gohan and Krillin fighting and stopping a villain on their own

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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by Cipher » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:05 am

My only real issue with this arc is that it's overlong. You could lose at least an episode or two, if not three or four, of the action. But the mix of characters is fun, and the bookending material is genuinely charming and hilarious. A few of the cutaways to Maron at Karin's place are also quite funny. (In particular one in which she won't stop petting him like a normal cat as he's delivering some grave speech.)

Basically in agreement with Gaffer Tape: The bookending material is fantastic (fucking everyone forgetting Turtle's 1000th birthday), the concept is fine enough, but it stretches itself too thin.

The setting—an actual battle in the Heavenly Realm—is also refreshing, but at the same time it's a shame it winds up beating the Boo arc to it in the anime.

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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by Grimlock » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:30 am

precita wrote:So all filler is bad now?
In Dragon Ball Z? No, just most of them.
precita wrote:And again, if you didn't watch the saga you have no idea how it played out with Kami/Mr Popo, Yajirobe/Korin having comic relief moments, or Piccolo, Gohan and Krillin fighting and stopping a villain on their own
Yeah, I might give the saga a chance someday. Maybe I'll enjoy it since I started seeing this franchise with other eyes.

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Re: Garlic Jr saga pros and cons

Post by Son Perfect » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:46 pm

I like we see how it is on earth without all the fighting. For the few segments we get to see, everyone is just having a good time. Kuririn gets a girlfriend and some more development on the idea of getting married. We see how Gohan's schooling is at home and slacking off. The downside to this arc is the ACTUAL villain. They could have just kept this part of the story all peaceful filler but Toei really needed to milk more money off Emperor Pilaf's flawed cousin, Garlic Jr.
I love Gohan a bit too much...

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