Funi's DB/DBGT video releases vs. DBZ's

[KinguKurimuzon]

I bought Funimation's GT complete series DVD set a few hours ago, and watching it got me thinking, why did Funimation release acceptable DVD versions of DB and GT, but completely drop the fucking ball on Z's? Why'd they even bother """remastering""" DBZ for the Orange Bricks when they hardly touched the other two series? I get that this has probably been discussed to death, but I don't understand why they'd do what they did with the Orange Bricks when it would've been cheaper and faster to just slap the original footage on some DVDs, especially considering they did exactly that for two other series.

[sintzu]

They wanted to market it as "HD" even though that was a complete lie because they were on DVDs. They also wanted to market it as a "new" and "modern" show which like the HD, is a lie as it wasn't. The result is like you said, a complete mess and worse product than what we would've gotten if they just gave it a normal release which they started to with the ultimate uncut edition but stopped after 4 or 5 sets.

[KBABZ]

What sintzu said. DBZ is their most marketable product so they probably wanted to cast the net as wide as possible. With the more niche appeal of DB and GT, it behooved them to do those ones "properly" so that they would appeal to their original audience and not shrink the net.

[TheGreatness25]

But there's more to it than that, isn't there? Didn't Funimation only receive second-hand masters from Toei for Z, while it looks like they got much better footage for DB and GT?

[KBABZ]

But there's more to it than that, isn't there? Didn't Funimation only receive second-hand masters from Toei for Z, while it looks like they got much better footage for DB and GT?

I'd contest that for Dragon Ball. There are a fair few shots that don't get the colours right, with greens suffering in particular:

Spoiler:

GT though I'd get, considering there was only five or so years between it airing in Japan and then via Funimation. I remember looking up a GT Dragon Box comparison on this forum and it was pretty much "Dragon Box without noise".

[Robo4900]

But there's more to it than that, isn't there? Didn't Funimation only receive second-hand masters from Toei for Z, while it looks like they got much better footage for DB and GT?

For Dragon Ball and Z, Funimation got DigiBeta copies of the entire run from Mexico. It's possible the material they got before 1999(Which is to say, Dragon Ball 1-13, DB movie 1, DBZ 1-67, DBZ movies 1-3) may have been from Toei, but in either case, their DB and Z footage is standard-def NTSC DigiBeta footage. More than good enough for DVD.

For GT, Funimation were initially given the D2 tape master of GT, I'd guess from Mexico. However, they only used this footage for the ending song, aswell as a few shots of the opening song of their version of GT.
The vast majority of their footage comes from a work-in-progress version of the Dragon Box remaster, which was presumably given to Funi by Toei.

For Dragon Ball Z's home releases from 2007 on, Funimation had Toei send them 16mm film of the entirety of Dragon Ball Z, which would be third or fourth generation film. They also had 35mm film of all the movies sent along, including all four of Dragon Ball's.
Funi's film copies can generate great results, but they have to be handled with care; there's a ton of grain on the film, especially on the 16mm, the picture has lost detail from generational loss, and there's a lot of damage baked into the film from the previous few generations; most notably tape marks. As we see on the Levels and the HD masters of the four Dragon Ball movies though, this can all be managed very nicely to give us a nice, sharp, pretty clear picture.

[ZodaEX]

But there's more to it than that, isn't there? Didn't Funimation only receive second-hand masters from Toei for Z, while it looks like they got much better footage for DB and GT?

For Dragon Ball and Z, Funimation got DigiBeta copies of the entire run from Mexico. It's possible the material they got before 1999(Which is to say, Dragon Ball 1-13, DB movie 1, DBZ 1-67, DBZ movies 1-3) may have been from Toei, but in either case, their DB and Z footage is standard-def NTSC DigiBeta footage. More than good enough for DVD.

For GT, Funimation were initially given the D2 tape master of GT, I'd guess from Mexico. However, they only used this footage for the ending song, aswell as a few shots of the opening song of their version of GT.
The vast majority of their footage comes from a work-in-progress version of the Dragon Box remaster, which was presumably given to Funi by Toei.

For Dragon Ball Z's home releases from 2007 on, Funimation had Toei send them 16mm film of the entirety of Dragon Ball Z, which would be third or fourth generation film. They also had 35mm film of all the movies sent along, including all four of Dragon Ball's.
Funi's film copies can generate great results, but they have to be handled with care; there's a ton of grain on the film, especially on the 16mm, the picture has lost detail from generational loss, and there's a lot of damage baked into the film from the previous few generations; most notably tape marks. As we see on the Levels and the HD masters of the four Dragon Ball movies though, this can all be managed very nicely to give us a nice, sharp, pretty clear picture.

Why did Funimation initially get there masters of DBZ from Mexico instead of Toei of Japan? Did this somehow provide them a discount on the footage? I'm just curious is all, I completely believe what you are saying fully.

[PacificOceanDub]

This is one of my biggest woes as well. I mean, aesthetically, the Blue, Orange and Green bricks line up so nicely on a shelf together. If only the contents of the bricks were all consistent with one another.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

This is one of my biggest woes as well. I mean, aesthetically, the Blue, Orange and Green bricks line up so nicely on a shelf together. If only the contents of the bricks were all consistent with one another.

Yeah, unfortunately you have Z with the faux widescreen as compared to the other two series which were left as is in the original 4:3 aspect ratio.

[Robo4900]

Why did Funimation initially get there masters of DBZ from Mexico instead of Toei of Japan? Did this somehow provide them a discount on the footage? I'm just curious is all, I completely believe what you are saying fully.

It was cheaper to get tapes shipped from Mexico than from Japan. Simple as that.

[excelhedge]

Orange bricks are joke simply becuase of the crappy picture quality and zoomed in widescreen that actually cuts out parts of the actual picture.

The DB blue bricks and GT green bricks are perfect in my opinion.

[BlueChi]

The DB blue bricks and GT green bricks are perfect in my opinion.

Aren't the Blue Brick releases slightly zoomed in, tho?

[JohnnyCashKami]

FUNimation thinks that Dragon Ball Z needs a remastered 16x9 AR version. It got a really good one but it wasn't by them.

[excelhedge]

The DB blue bricks and GT green bricks are perfect in my opinion.

Aren't the Blue Brick releases slightly zoomed in, tho?

from what i understand they are in the original 4:3

Unlike orange bricks zoomed in 16:9

[Danfun64]

The DB blue bricks and GT green bricks are perfect in my opinion.

They aren't. The biggest advantages the Blue Bricks and the Green Bricks have compared to the DB saga sets and GT singles are the higher bitrate, the Blue Bricks being progressive scan instead of interlaced, and ep 1-13 being released uncut in the US for the first time. The masters used in them are pretty much Funi's pre-existing digibeta masters DVNR'd and zoomed in slightly. While the master of DB predates the Dragon Box master, Funi's GT master IS the Dragon Box footage... or at least a variant before the cleanup process. The biggest advantage of the singles is a more authentic presentation (Japanese title cards in both; Japanese OP, ED and NEP for GT; dub OP, ED and NEP that isn't used in the Green Bricks; original dub sound mixes). And of course, all this only applies to DB and GT. For Z, the answers are more conditional.

[JohnnyCashKami]

from what i understand they are in the original 4:3

Unlike orange bricks zoomed in 16:9

They are in their original 4x3 AR but yeah, the DB bricks were zoomed in. The DB and GT season sets are serviceable but not great.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

from what i understand they are in the original 4:3

Unlike orange bricks zoomed in 16:9

They are in their original 4x3 AR but yeah, the DB bricks were zoomed in. The DB and GT season sets are serviceable but not great.

I still find the slight zooming not nearly as bad as cutting off 20% of the picture like the orange bricks with their faux widescreen presentation. Didn't they do that zoom in because of the artifacting and damage on their digibeta masters.

[ZodaEX]

from what i understand they are in the original 4:3

Unlike orange bricks zoomed in 16:9

They are in their original 4x3 AR but yeah, the DB bricks were zoomed in. The DB and GT season sets are serviceable but not great.

I still find the slight zooming not nearly as bad as cutting off 20% of the picture like the orange bricks with their faux widescreen presentation. Didn't they do that zoom in because of the artifacting and damage on their digibeta masters.

Without seeing their Digibeta masters, or talking with someone who has it is impossible to say.

[Char Aznable]

For GT, Funimation were initially given the D2 tape master of GT, I'd guess from Mexico. However, they only used this footage for the ending song, aswell as a few shots of the opening song of their version of GT.
The vast majority of their footage comes from a work-in-progress version of the Dragon Box remaster, which was presumably given to Funi by Toei.

I guess this justifies my decision when collecting GT to track down all the singles (as well as the box sets they came in for aesthetic purposes) over the bricks. I don't really care about the dub with Japanese music and I suppose if I ever do the bricks are dirt cheap, but they just don't seem to look as good.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

For GT, Funimation were initially given the D2 tape master of GT, I'd guess from Mexico. However, they only used this footage for the ending song, aswell as a few shots of the opening song of their version of GT.
The vast majority of their footage comes from a work-in-progress version of the Dragon Box remaster, which was presumably given to Funi by Toei.

I guess this justifies my decision when collecting GT to track down all the singles (as well as the box sets they came in for aesthetic purposes) over the bricks. I don't really care about the dub with Japanese music and I suppose if I ever do the bricks are dirt cheap, but they just don't seem to look as good.

I definitely prefer the singles seeing as the they the complete authentic presentation of the Japanese version, and i don't really care to watch GT dubbed so they're very good in that aspect. The green bricks while at least not as bad as Z's season sets do lose some of that value with not having the elements that the singles have (original GT logo, Japanese OP/ED credits, NEP's) which is why i went with the latter in the box sets for all but the last five discs which didn't have it.

Basically, the source that FUNi got for GT from Toei in 2002/2003 was more or less an earlier stage of the masters that Toei later cleaned up for the Dragon Box and subsequent individual discs.