DBZ Blu-ray Orange Bricks are here to stay - "This is truly the best possible way to watch Dragon Ball Z"

[Bajosexto]

I would disagree.

Chris Sabat has the Japanese broadcast audio now, so Funimation have at least one specific reason to think about when considering doing a new release of Dragon Ball Z. Add to that the fact Funimation basically like to re-release Z at every opportunity they get, and I really think a new release of Dragon Ball Z is on the horizon. Not soon, but eventually. I don't imagine it will be cheaper than the Season BDs, though by then the Season BDs will have likely dropped in price by quite a bit, so if you decide it's not worth it, you can just spring for them for cheap.

So, as SuperCyan2 said, wait for the next release. And there will be a next release. Maybe not super-soon, but it'll happen. Way I see it, if they can do something of similar visual quality to the movie BDs,* but in 4:3, we'll have a worthy release. They could big it up as "See more of the picture than you've ever seen before, and in unprecedented clarity to celebrate 30 years of Dragon Ball Z!!"
Though, I think this would be a few years off; 1996 was when Dragon Ball Z first hit the US, so they might announce it in about 3 years to celebrate 25 years of Dragon Ball Z in the US. This would also give time for Kai: TFC to be out of people's minds a little, and for Super's buzz to die down somewhat, and people to get a bit nostalgic for Z again. Throw in a bonus on it like the OG Funi dub as an extra audio track, and you'll bring all the US dub fans in, since that hasn't been on an official release since 2003.

*Apologies for the audio in this clip. Only clip I could find on YouTube that was good enough quality. I haven't seen many of the movies, so I went with Broly, to give a good example... Still, the visuals are the point here. So, mute the sound, and take a look at what is actually a pretty nice-looking version of this fight. Colours are a little iffy, but the visuals overall are quite nice here IMO. Cropped, but that's how the movies were presented theatrically, so this is fine. I prefer the open-matte, but let's not get into that debate; this is basically a side-note on a side-note here, so I won't go into it.

I think we can all agree that FUNimation will eventually re-release Dragon Ball Z (again). But the question is when? 3 years from now? 5 years? 10 years? Is it really worth it to wait untill FUNi releases a new home release to buy Z? I mean the new release could simply be a orange bricks 3.0 type of release. But this time on 4k!! Or it could be a proper 4:3 release with the "original" broadcast audio. Who knows. What I do know is that it will take time. I wouldn't recommend people to just wait for a new release because that could take years. If you want to buy Z, just buy the Season Blu-rays. They're the best option for owning Z right now (Unfortunately). However if the cropping REALLY bothers you, either buy the Dragon Boxes, singles, or wait. But who knows how long we will have to wait.

[KBABZ]

I wish more people would call Funimation out for their shitty practices, but judging from these Amazon reviews it's like nobody has any fucking standards anymore.

I agree. DB and GT are fine, but when it comes to DBZ, it's a shitshow because not only has the majority US fanbase been indoctrinated on blown out, cropped garbage, but there's been an erratic release schedule ever since the first attempts of DVDs when the Ultimate Uncuts were replaced with the Orange Bricks. If the Ultimate Uncuts and, by extension, the Level Sets were the only ones used, we would only have three disc releases of that show: Ultimate Uncut on DVD, Level Sets on Blu-Ray and DBZ Kai on DVD and Blu-Ray. Instead we've got seven major releases, with the Orange and Blu Bricks, plus the US Dragon Box as decade-old apology letter. It worked fine when it was first released, but because it was a limited release and not in HD it's equivalent to trying to get a decade-old Lego set: you're trawling eBay for it, which for many folks isn't a viable option and certainly not preferable.

I think we can all agree that FUNimation will eventually re-release Dragon Ball Z (again). But the question is when? 3 years from now? 5 years? 10 years? Is it really worth it to wait untill FUNi releases a new home release to buy Z? I mean the new release could simply be a orange bricks 3.0 type of release. But this time on 4k!! Or it could be a proper 4:3 release with the "original" broadcast audio. Who knows. What I do know is that it will take time. I wouldn't recommend people to just wait for a new release because that could take years. If you want to buy Z, just buy the Season Blu-rays. They're the best option for owning Z right now (Unfortunately). However if the cropping REALLY bothers you, either buy the Dragon Boxes, singles, or wait. But who knows how long we will have to wait.

I think the problem with the original run of Dragon Ball from the 80s to the 90s is the fact that it's just so old at this point, I can't see most of it gaining any benefits from being released in the next big standard: Ultra HD. Combine that with the fact that you'd need to transfer 291 episodes for Z, 153 for DB and 64 for GT, or 508 episodes, which is 12,192 minutes, or 203.2 hours. And that's not even counting any of the movies. It was a gargantuan task for Toei and Pony Canyon to undertake for the Dragon Boxes, and they're probably kicking themselves for not mastering it in HD so they could sell Blu-Ray Dragon Boxes. Back on Funimation, another release probably doesn't behoove them given that they have Z on streaming services, which is the preferred way to watch the show now. They'd go through a lot of expense for very little gain, unlike modern Dragon Ball where all they have to do is package up some English menus with their existing dub and send it to press at a low cost.

Given how satisfied most fans unfortunately are with the Blu Bricks, the only way I can see Funimation releasing any old Dragon Ball material again (if they were going to release DB and GT in HD, they would have done it by now) is if Toei decided to make Blu-Ray Dragon Boxes and Funimation got the rights for an English release.

[Ringworm128]

As it's been theorised in the past the success of the season sets and failure of the level sets was mostly due to timing and value for money. The orange bricks were released a few years after the series had ended, and the only release was the old singles. 30 plus episodes, uncut in one set at an affordable price? Heck yeah! The level sets on the other hand came out right after the Dragonbox, which barely any DBZ fans outside of this forum understood properly not to mention DBZ Kai was in it's prime back then. The market was flooded and consumers weren't gonna pay for yet another release that had only half the amount of episodes as the two previous releases. Even the video purist market wasn't secure as there were many who viewed the Dragonbox as "good enough" or superior in it's own way.

I'm no business or marketing expert, but I just can't see how anyone could have thought releasing the level sets back then was a good idea by any stretch of the imagination.

[Bajosexto]

I think the problem with the original run of Dragon Ball from the 80s to the 90s is the fact that it's just so old at this point, I can't see most of it gaining any benefits from being released in the next big standard: Ultra HD. Combine that with the fact that you'd need to transfer 291 episodes for Z, 153 for DB and 64 for GT, or 508 episodes, which is 12,192 minutes, or 203.2 hours. And that's not even counting any of the movies. It was a gargantuan task for Toei and Pony Canyon to undertake for the Dragon Boxes, and they're probably kicking themselves for not mastering it in HD so they could sell Blu-Ray Dragon Boxes. Back on Funimation, another release probably doesn't behoove them given that they have Z on streaming services, which is the preferred way to watch the show now. They'd go through a lot of expense for very little gain, unlike modern Dragon Ball where all they have to do is package up some English menus with their existing dub and send it to press at a low cost.

Given how satisfied most fans unfortunately are with the Blu Bricks, the only way I can see Funimation releasing any old Dragon Ball material again (if they were going to release DB and GT in HD, they would have done it by now) is if Toei decided to make Blu-Ray Dragon Boxes and Funimation got the rights for an English release.

An official Dragon Ball HD, color corrected, home release would be really cool. Hopefully one day we will have a proper home release of DB and Z. On HD. But it seems like Dragon Ball Z's popularity in the U.S. prevents it from receiving a "collectors" type of home release (proper aspect ratio, proper colors, Japanese title cards, etc. Basically the Dragon Boxes). It seems like the average fan doesn't care about that stuff. And on the opposite side, Dragon Ball not being as popular prevents it from getting an HD release. So we're stuck with a cropped Dragon Ball Z release and a standard DVD release for Dragon Ball. But it could be worse though. At least English speakers have several complete home releases. I just really want an official home release of the Latin American dub.

[Kuwabara]

I think the problem with the original run of Dragon Ball from the 80s to the 90s is the fact that it's just so old at this point, I can't see most of it gaining any benefits from being released in the next big standard: Ultra HD.

The benefit would be that such a transfer would be in an archival format deserving of the franchise's pedigree and worldwide influence.

I'm no business or marketing expert, but I just can't see how anyone could have thought releasing the level sets back then was a good idea by any stretch of the imagination.

They were released too early and with not enough episodes per set. If they had waited until all of the episodes were finished being restored, they could have opted for season sets instead and made back their money and more eventually.

[SuperCyan2]

Chris Sabat has the Japanese broadcast audio now, so Funimation have at least one specific reason to think about when considering doing a new release of Dragon Ball Z. Add to that the fact Funimation basically like to re-release Z at every opportunity they get, and I really think a new release of Dragon Ball Z is on the horizon. Not soon, but eventually. I don't imagine it will be cheaper than the Season BDs, though by then the Season BDs will have likely dropped in price by quite a bit, so if you decide it's not worth it, you can just spring for them for cheap.

Fans need to stop putting their hopes in that FUNimation will use the Japanese TV audio that fans gave them, without TOEI's approval nothing will happen. This is just being realistic and saying over and over again that "Sabat has the Japanese broadcast audios so it's up to Funimation to get it out there" isn't that simple.

FUNimation needs TOEI's consent and the probable answer is a straight 'no'.

I just really want an official home release of the Latin American dub.

ZIMA has been releasing Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT content on Blu-ray with the Mexican dub but all of it is FUNimation-remastered, whether for the better or worse. At the very least, it's nowhere near as bad as OnScreen Films was.

[Bruma rabu]

I think the worst part about the Blu Bricks is that even with all their faults, they're still the only possible way to watch classic DBZ for some people. I've been itching to rewatch the series lately (without resorting to piracy), but the Dragon Boxes simply aren't an option for me right now, so I have to go with these things because they're the most affordable and accessible releases of the series we've got right now. I wish more people would call Funimation out for their shitty practices, but judging from these Amazon reviews it's like nobody has any fucking standards anymore.

Nah dude the general majority never had standards to begin with. The level sets are a testament to that. People like to watch anime in 60fps like what?!?! What the majority of US fans want is dragon ball Z with the Bruce Falconner soundtrack. That's it and the rest of use have to suffer for it.

[TheGreatness25]

I'm no business or marketing expert, but I just can't see how anyone could have thought releasing the level sets back then was a good idea by any stretch of the imagination.

They were released too early and with not enough episodes per set. If they had waited until all of the episodes were finished being restored, they could have opted for season sets instead and made back their money and more eventually.

You make it seem like the overwhelming cost that caused Funimation to stop producing the Level Sets, was the packaging. That's not the case. The restoration process itself was the expensive part, as they hired a team of professionals to sit there and frame-by-frame correct the series. That cost them money. It's not about putting out enough episodes per disc. They were testing the waters if they should continue or not. Very smart people calculated how many episodes they needed per disc, probably putting it up against the sales of the orange bricks and other releases, to determine how many sets they'd need and at what cost, to make any sort of profit that's worth making. And apparently, the experiment failed. So, how do you figure that they went wrong by releasing it too early on with not enough episodes per set?

So according to your plan, they should have spent a ton of money to have the entire series restored on a pure gamble that they might or might not make their money back in an untested market, then put more episodes out per set, which meant less sets and thus, less oportunity to make back the money. I sincerely don't see how that would work. You seem confident that the fans would just gobble it up, but it's not about that, it's about if enough fans would gobble it up to justify spending so much money to produce it in the first place. That's why they released the first two before finishing the entire series -- because they didn't just run it through a machine like with the orange bricks or Season Sets. They were doing each frame by hand, which cost them a lot of money. The price for that kind of work was not a one-and-done, but a continuous thing. So before they allocated even more budget to the project, they did a release to see how many people bite. In the end, not enough people bit.

Of course the Season Sets are successful -- there are only nine packed with a ton of episodes and they cost a normal price as far as retail is concerned. But at the same time, Funimation didn't spend nearly as much money to produce them. For all we know, whatever the Season Sets made -- and continue to make -- might not even be nearly enough to hit the target profit goal that they had in mind, and in fact, due to the Season Sets' lower production cost, they stand to walk away with a lot more profit from this project than they ever would have with the Level Sets, no matter how many people bought them. Think about it -- if they released the Level Sets the way you suggest (seemingly similar to how the Season Sets were released) and they spent a lot more money on the Level Sets remastering process, then if they sold the same amount of that as the Season Sets, they'd make a significantly less amount of money than with the Season Sets. Unless you're suggesting that the Level Sets would be bought by a much larger amount of people than the Season Sets, which I don't see happening.


Lots of people go into this kind of discussion with a mentality that Funimation owes the fans a great release, but the bottom line for any company is money. I know, big evil business entity doesn't want to shell out its money to give us what we want, but that's how it is. In order to help such a project, we can all feel free to fund it and pledge to spend $100 per each disc that's released, but none of us want to do that, right? We won't talk the talk with our wallets, but we expect them to open up their checks to give us what we want, right? We want them to spend a bunch of their money to give us the perfect release that we can pick up for dirt cheap. That's kind of not how business -- or life for that matter -- works.

They already spent a lot of resources to bring us the Dragon Boxes, which were a tremendous release. The very first one that came out in the US was priced at $80, with them figuring that hey, it's 42 episodes per release and they shelled out funds to Toei for it, so naturally after screaming at the top of our lungs that we want the Dragon Boxes, we were willing to spend $80 per set, right? Wrong. How many people paid $80 MSRP per Dragon Box? Dragon Box 2 didn't even carry that price tag because they already saw the trend. And not to speculate that the Dragon Box suffered from not making enough money, but I personally feel that there's something to the fact that it suddenly became a "limited release" even though it was never advertised to be one, with a price tag that got severely slashed to the point where it wasn't even selling for half of the intended $80. So why in the hell would they even waste their time and resources to finish the Level Sets when we, as fans, don't want to hold up our end of the deal? Our end of the deal is to buy the damned thing for what it costs. Nobody's saying that it's desirable, or that the fans even can shell out what Funimation would ask for such a release, but if that's the case, then why should they make it in the first place?

I do firmly believe that as technology progresses by leaps and bounds, the price to produce a remastering of the series on par with the Level Sets, will dramatically decrease, and we will see the Level Sets released. I do believe that. It might not happen for a while, but I do see it coming. The problem is that it won't be cutting-edge and it will be outdated yet again. Instead of using Ultra HD 4K OMG, it'll be done in a more outdated fashion, but in the very least, the price will be justified. I understand Funimation's decisions from their perspective. The only problem that I have is the cropping -- that's it. Yes, the orange bricks looked terrible most of the time, but the Season Set Blu-rays look pretty good to me. Yeah, the colors aren't what they were originally intended to be, but I'll be honest with you when I say that I don't care. The only gripe I have is the cropping, which I find unnecessary. Other than that, I enjoy their releases. And if not, I always have my handy dandy Dragon Boxes, which I paid a high price for (in terms of the Japanese ones), and yes, my US Dragon Box 1 was picked up for $80 because I got it the day it came out. And while I can complain about how much money I spent on it, the fact is that I was always ready, willing, and thankfully able, to give them what they needed to produce what I wanted. Clearly not every fan can (or would), so that's why we can't have nice things. It's really not anyone's fault. I have to make it clear that I'm not putting myself on a pedestal talking about how I can afford to pay whatever they want from me while others can't, no it's not about that. It's about the fact that they need the fans to be able and willing to do so in order to justify the release and if that's not happening, they simply won't produce it.


And what is this thing that fans gave Funimation the original Japanese TV audio? Come on, guys. Does anyone really think that the execs at Funimation even listened to it? Maybe Sabat did because he's a fan, but I don't think that anyone who's putting releases together gives a flip about the fans sending them some audio files. They probably get a ton of stuff every day that they don't sort through.

Much like most of my posts, I feel the need to express that this was not typed up in a mean-spirited way. I just like to discuss what's on my mind and it can come off as combative through text, when if I were saying this to you in person, I'd be smiling and really calm about it. So I'm not looking to spark up arguments (as opposed to discussions), it's just me sharing my thoughts.

[SuperCyan2]

TheGreatness25, great points there.

I do agree that FUNimation doesn't care about it or they can't use it without the parent company's approval, what's good for FUNimation isn't necessarily good for the rest. That is, FUNimation wants to make money and that means a rushed product yet affordable and profitable thus the Season Sets on BD/DVD are exactly that. The Dragon Boxes Z weren't but at least were only available for a limited time so they didn't lose risking too much and the Level Set Blu-rays definitely cost FUNi too much to make so it's why they got canned early.

Not just because it was an expensive remaster but no one was buying at the time of release since it had been published just after the final Dragon Box Z was out.

By the way, I'd not count on FUNimation licensing and releasing 'Dragon Box: The Movies' because everything Dragon Ball-based around the world more or less use the remasters of FUNi. Dragon Box: The Movies looks much better than the Double Features but the Japanese audio quality isn't amazing as some call it to be, would I buy it if they'd release it? Oh yeah, I would!

[Robo4900]

Fans need to stop putting their hopes in that FUNimation will use the Japanese TV audio that fans gave them, without TOEI's approval nothing will happen. This is just being realistic and saying over and over again that "Sabat has the Japanese broadcast audios so it's up to Funimation to get it out there" isn't that simple.

FUNimation needs TOEI's consent and the probable answer is a straight 'no'.

I'm gonna break this down for you...

You are correct in that Funimation would need Toei's approval.

You are correct in that if Toei say no, then the release simply will not happen.

But, there is literally absolutely no reason to believe Toei will deny Funimation permission to use the audio. Funimation have had HD masters of Dragon Ball Z since 2007, which Toei have seemingly thought very highly of, and with the Blu-Rays in 2014, Funimation did an incredible job at making the Japanese audio sound pretty decent. We have absolutely no reason to believe Toei would give a single crap about the broadcast audio, and spreading around the "nah lol it wont happen because lol toei and funi sux lol" won't achieve anything. Negative attitudes that assume there's nothing that can be done about a crappy situation is exactly why no one was able to organise any boycott or backlash about the cropped Blu-Rays. Don't spread false information with no basis in reality; that's why people hate clickbait articles.

--

The rest of this post is a rather long-winded response to TheGreatness25's post. Apologies for how long this ended up.

You make it seem like the overwhelming cost that caused Funimation to stop producing the Level Sets, was the packaging. That's not the case. The restoration process itself was the expensive part, as they hired a team of professionals to sit there and frame-by-frame correct the series. That cost them money. It's not about putting out enough episodes per disc. They were testing the waters if they should continue or not. Very smart people calculated how many episodes they needed per disc, probably putting it up against the sales of the orange bricks and other releases, to determine how many sets they'd need and at what cost, to make any sort of profit that's worth making. And apparently, the experiment failed. So, how do you figure that they went wrong by releasing it too early on with not enough episodes per set?

Let's be real, though, a large part of why the Levels failed was because of timing. 2011 was literally the absolute worst time to put out the Levels.
Perhaps they still would have failed in 2014. We don't know. All we know is that in 2011, they failed. And I think it's pretty obvious that no one wanted a new release right after the Orange Bricks and the Dragon Boxes got done, while Kai was just getting started, and many fans had been burned on the failure of the Ultimate Uncuts only failed a few years earlier. No one wanted a new release in 2011, and not acknowledging the significant impact the timing would have had on the poor sales of the Levels is foolish.

Still, you raise good points overall, which is why there's large portions of your post I'm not quoting here; there's nothing to dispute. I just wanted to point out that while the Levels were definitely flawed in their release strategy in terms of them being an expensive, very different release, I think the timing of the release was a large part of why they failed.

I do firmly believe that as technology progresses by leaps and bounds, the price to produce a remastering of the series on par with the Level Sets, will dramatically decrease, and we will see the Level Sets released. I do believe that. It might not happen for a while, but I do see it coming. The problem is that it won't be cutting-edge and it will be outdated yet again. Instead of using Ultra HD 4K OMG, it'll be done in a more outdated fashion, but in the very least, the price will be justified.

Actually, regarding it being potentially outdated -- not necessarily. Dragon Ball Z exists on 16mm film, not 35mm like most movies and TV shows you tend to see getting remasters these days. It's been estimated that the maximum resolution you can usefully gain new information from scanning at for 35mm is 6K, if it's in really good condition. Funimation's Dragon Ball Z film material is third-generation 16mm prints with an optical soundtrack along the side. The picture area is less than half the size of 35mm film, and the quality of the print is a lot lower than a 35mm negative would be. 4K would just not be necessary for Dragon Ball Z, at least not from Funimation.
A 1080p release in the style of the Levels would be the best possible video remaster we could hope for without Toei doing something with their negatives.

But yes, I also believe that a Level-type remaster will happen in the future. I don't think it will be quite on the same level as the Levels, but something along those lines would certainly be achievable in the future, and I think that would be the perfect way to do the next release of Dragon Ball Z. Throw the broadcast audio on there, and put the OG Funi dub on there too, and you have a perfect "Respect the past, but in unprecedented quality, and see more of the picture area than you've ever seen before!" type release for the 25th US anniversary, 30th Japanese anniversary, 30th US anniversary, or maybe 35th Japanese anniversary.

I understand Funimation's decisions from their perspective. The only problem that I have is the cropping -- that's it. Yes, the orange bricks looked terrible most of the time, but the Season Set Blu-rays look pretty good to me. Yeah, the colors aren't what they were originally intended to be, but I'll be honest with you when I say that I don't care. The only gripe I have is the cropping, which I find unnecessary. Other than that, I enjoy their releases.

Honestly, I think the Season BDs are too blurry and oversharpened. But, if they toned that down so it looks more like the movie BDs, then yes, a 4:3 version of that would actually be a pretty fine HD release IMO.

And what is this thing that fans gave Funimation the original Japanese TV audio? Come on, guys. Does anyone really think that the execs at Funimation even listened to it? Maybe Sabat did because he's a fan, but I don't think that anyone who's putting releases together gives a flip about the fans sending them some audio files. They probably get a ton of stuff every day that they don't sort through.

Chris Sabat talked to Derek Padula at one point, and they exchanged some samples, which lead Sabat to get very enthusiastic about the broadcast audio. The Japanese side were, unfortuantely, bullied out of the situation by certain Western fans, but a few people(Including myself. Not saying this for glory or anything, just saying it to give some context on how I know about this) managed to gather digital rips the Japanese fans had sent to certain people, and send all of that to Chris Sabat. Sabat said he'd do everything in his power to get it on an official release, and according to Derek Padula, he still intends to follow up on that if Funimation ever look into doing a new release. It wouldn't be seen as some audio sent to them by some random online fans, it would be seen as Chris Sabat presenting a newly-discovered audio source to the guys organising the official release. And the audio is quite incredibly better than the stuff they've been dealing with in the past. It's not perfect, and it definitely needs some audio mastering work to bring out the best in it, but it's pretty amazing compared to the optical audio that's been used on previous releases.

Much like most of my posts, I feel the need to express that this was not typed up in a mean-spirited way. I just like to discuss what's on my mind and it can come off as combative through text, when if I were saying this to you in person, I'd be smiling and really calm about it. So I'm not looking to spark up arguments (as opposed to discussions), it's just me sharing my thoughts.

Cheers, man. Tone can be difficult online. FWIW, you bring up good points, and I have enjoyed writing up this response to your post.
If you're worried about the tone of your posts, you could try doing what I did -- I put a positive quote about being nice in my sig. I like to think that makes the tone of my posts come across better.

[SuperCyan2]

I'm gonna break this down for you...

You are correct in that Funimation would need Toei's approval.

You are correct in that if Toei say no, then the release simply will not happen.

We're starting off good then.

But, there is literally absolutely no reason to believe Toei will deny Funimation permission to use the audio.

There is "literally" a good reason TOEI would deny FUNi to use it.

Funimation have had HD masters of Dragon Ball Z since 2007, which Toei have seemingly thought very highly of, and with the Blu-rays in 2014, Funimation did an incredible job at making the Japanese audio sound pretty decent.

It still sounds atrociously bad.

We have absolutely no reason to believe Toei would give a single crap about the broadcast audio

If TOEI gave FUNi permission to use the audio then FUNi would have the superior release over the original Japanese.

and spreading around the "nah lol it wont happen because lol toei and funi sux lol" won't achieve anything. Negative attitudes that assume there's nothing that can be done about a crappy situation is exactly why no one was able to organise any boycott or backlash about the cropped Blu-Rays. Stop spreading false information with no basis in reality.

Well, that certainly hit the nerve on ya. You guys have been trying for years on end to get TOEI/FUNi to use it and have always failed because either of their pride (TOEI) or they just don't care (FUNi -- Or they simply can't because of TOEI). Don't tell me about spreading false information, Mr. "Funimation did an incredible job at making the Japanese audio sound pretty decent."

[Robo4900]

If TOEI gave FUNi permission to use the audio then FUNi would have the superior release over the original Japanese.

That was already happening with the Levels(Don't bring up their cancellation; if Toei didn't approve, they never would have got off the ground at all), and back when the DVD singles were being released in 1999-2005, Japan didn't have a DVD release at all.

It still sounds atrociously bad.

Superior to the other releases, though... Including the Japanese.

Well, that certainly hit the nerve on ya. You guys have been trying for years on end to get TOEI/FUNi to use it and have always failed because either of their pride (TOEI) or they just don't care (FUNi -- Or they simply can't because of TOEI).

You're extrapolating a lot there; all we know is that when Kei offered his audio to Toei in 2010 or whenever, the representative(Or auto-responder) who received his email politely declined. That's it.
As for Funi, don't be silly -- they literally have the audio now. They got it just over a year ago. New finds online still occasionally happen, and get sent along.

Don't tell me about spreading false information, Mr. "Funimation did an incredible job at making the Japanese audio sound pretty decent."

I mean, I'm right. They put a lot of work into the audio on the BDs, and general consensus is that, while it still doesn't sound good, it sounds significantly better than any previous release. At worst, I'm raving about something that's a widely-held matter of opinion; you're literally just making claims about the business strategies of two major companies from the point of view of an average joe who has no insider knowledge or basis in reality for any of their claims. You didn't even know that Funimation have the audio in the first place.

There is "literally" a good reason TOEI would deny FUNi to use it.

I have yet to see any other than people vaguely claiming nonsense that doesn't stand up to criticism.

[Vegard Aune]

[

Funimation have had HD masters of Dragon Ball Z since 2007, which Toei have seemingly thought very highly of, and with the Blu-rays in 2014, Funimation did an incredible job at making the Japanese audio sound pretty decent.

It still sounds atrociously bad.

Well yes. Because there was only so much that could be done with the material they had.

We have absolutely no reason to believe Toei would give a single crap about the broadcast audio

If TOEI gave FUNi permission to use the audio then FUNi would have the superior release over the original Japanese."

And? FUNi already has a superior home video release for One Piece (Toei's DVDs for the early HD episodes are interlaced and cropped to 4:3, FUNi has had progressive scan 16:9 since the switch happened. Granted they don't have the fourteenth ending for some reason but that's honestly a lot smaller an issue than missing a significant chunk of the image for 20 episodes straight), so it's not like there's no precedent for Toei allowing FUNi to put out a product that's better than their own.

[SuperCyan2]

That was already happening with the Levels(Don't bring up their cancellation; if Toei didn't approve, they never would have got off the ground at all), and back when the DVD singles were being released in 1999-2005, Japan didn't have a DVD release at all.

Those were different times, simple.

Superior to the other releases, though... Including the Japanese.

You're pretty much comparing the lesser of two evils.

You're extrapolating a lot there; all we know is that when Kei offered his audio to Toei in 2010 or whenever, the representative(Or auto-responder) who received his email politely declined. That's it.

I read all of that drama and still can't believe that happened. So cringey.

As for Funi, don't be silly -- they literally have the audio now. They got it just over a year ago. New finds online still occasionally happen, and get sent along.

Just because they literally have the audio doesn't literally mean they'll literally use it without TOEI's consent, literally.

I mean, I'm right. They put a lot of work into the audio on the BDs, and general consensus is that, while it still doesn't sound good, it sounds significantly better than any previous release. At worst, I'm inflating a matter of opinion; you're literally just making claims about the business practises of two major companies from the point of view of an average joe who has no insider knowledge or basis in reality for any of their claims.

Well, it helps to pat yourself on the back and say "I'm right and you're wrong" as it's a convenient case. FUNimation cleaned up the muffled audio a bit and used eq on it, that's something anyone could've done.

I have yet to see any other than people vaguely claiming nonsense that doesn't stand up to criticism.

I've been reading some (not everything) you guys have been writing for years about how Sabat/FUNimation will do this and will do that and what have they done so far? Nothing. You guys just love to talk about it. You know, Precita wasn't wrong.

[Bajosexto]

I just really want an official home release of the Latin American dub.

ZIMA has been releasing Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT content on Blu-ray with the Mexican dub but all of it is FUNimation-remastered, whether for the better or worse. At the very least, it's nowhere near as bad as OnScreen Films was.

Yes. I still haven't bought those yet. But I will eventually. To be honest it doesn't bother me that much that they're just FUNimation Blu rays synced with the Latin American audio. Mostly because the movies were intended to be viewed in 16:9.

[SuperCyan2]

Yes. I still haven't bought those yet. But I will eventually. To be honest it doesn't bother me that much that they're just FUNimation Blu rays synced with the Latin American audio. Mostly because the movies were intended to be viewed in 16:9.

If you're into the Mexican dub then that's understandable but the Double Features are quite the mixed-bag, a few look OK while the rest are just bad, really bad looking. Movie 13 is sometimes so dark that I can't see any detail and the Japanese audio on that.. oh boy.

My preferred AR for the DBZ 1-13 movies is fullscreen because I don't care if it was intended or not, I like to see the whole picture.

[Bajosexto]

Yes. I still haven't bought those yet. But I will eventually. To be honest it doesn't bother me that much that they're just FUNimation Blu rays synced with the Latin American audio. Mostly because the movies were intended to be viewed in 16:9.

If you're into the Mexican dub then that's understandable but the Double Features are quite the mixed-bag, a few look OK while the rest are just bad, really bad looking. Movie 13 is sometimes so dark that I can't see any detail and the Japanese audio on that.. oh boy.

My preferred AR for the DBZ 1-13 movies is fullscreen because I don't care if it was intended or not, I like to see the whole picture.

Yeah the FUNimation Blurays of the movies aren't that great. But in my opinion they look decent. And in this case I'm able to buy an official release of the Latin American dub.

I also prefer the full 4:3 aspect ratio. But like I said, the movies (not the specials and especially not the series) being 16:9 doesn't bother me that much because thats how they were intended to be viewed.

[Robo4900]

Those were different times, simple.

Ah yes, the distant times of 6 years ago. You're right, 6 years is long enough that Toei will have completely changed their attitudes on what foreign releases are allowed to do, and will now refuse to allow Funimation to do absolutely anything that makes any of their releases in future even slightly better than what's available in Japan. Congratulations for solving this mystery.

Seriously, this makes no sense.

I read all of that drama and still can't believe that happened. So cringey.

... Okay...
Were you actually making a point there, or are you just trying to make fun of me now?

Just because they literally have the audio doesn't literally mean they'll literally use it without TOEI's consent, literally.

There's no reason to believe Toei will care.
In addition, they say imitation is the highest form of flattery, however if that's what you're going for, I suggest instead focusing on more intricate aspects of my mannerisms, rather than taking a word I've used a couple of times in a couple of previous posts, and repeating it over and over again.

Well, it helps to pat yourself on the back and say "I'm right and you're wrong" as it's a convenient case. FUNimation cleaned up the muffled audio a bit and used eq on it, that's something anyone could've done.

Dude, seriously, what's with the attitude? Your entire point here has simply been "TOEI won't let anyone have a better release because they've had a sudden change of heart in the past 6 years for no reason which has never been demonstrated in any form whatsoever, but will suddenly be demonstrated if Funimation want to do a release with this audio."

It's hardly substantial.

Seriously, you're taking speculation based on absolutely nothing, claiming it's an indisputable fact, and making fun of anyone who calls you out on it. Chill out, man -- no one cares if you're wrong, so just relax. Only reason I'm even bothering with this is that your misinformation might spread. I don't care if you're wrong, I just care that people in general don't get misinformed based on speculation with zero basis in any facts.

I've been reading some (not everything) you guys have been writing for years about how Sabat/FUNimation will do this and will do that and what have they done so far? Nothing. You guys just love to talk about it. You know, Precita wasn't wrong.

"Years"? Dude, the audio literally(Yes. Literally. As in this is the fact of what happened) was only delivered to Sabat in February 2017. It's barely been a year. And that was just the basic collection; back when ~50 episodes in the middle were crap, 34 of GT were missing, the last episode of DB was missing, both specials were using an inferior source, and some higher quality sources of several episodes hadn't appeared yet.
This is actually a pretty new development, dude.

But y'know what, we're getting off track here, and your tone is getting increasingly insulting. Calm down and walk away. I'm not going anywhere, we can come back to this later in PMs if necessary, but just walk away and calm down for now; you're clearly getting annoyed with me, otherwise you wouldn't be making fun of my use of the word "Literally", and saying stuff about me trying to "Pat [myself] on the back". Just, please go calm down somewhere, and come back when you're in a more relaxed mood. I'm not trying to talk down to you or anything -- as I said, I don't care -- it's just that we're veering pretty far off-topic, and you're getting pretty mean. Just calm down, walk away, and come back later with a clear head.

[SuperCyan2]

Seriously, this makes no sense.

The entire Dragon Ball fanbase in one sentence.

Were you actually making a point there, or are you just trying to make fun of me now?

I wasn't but if the shoe fits.

There's no reason to believe Toei will care.

Well, that's your opinion.

Dude, seriously, what's with the attitude? Your entire point here has simply been "TOEI won't let anyone have a better release because they've had a sudden change of heart in the past 6 years for no reason which has never been demonstrated in any form whatsoever, but will suddenly be demonstrated if Funimation want to do a release with this audio."

It's hardly substantial.

Seriously, you're taking speculation based on absolutely nothing, claiming it's an indisputable fact, and making fun of anyone who calls you out on it. Chill out, man -- no one cares if you're wrong, so just relax. Only reason I'm even bothering with this is that your misinformation might spread. I don't care if you're wrong, I just care that people in general don't get misinformed based on speculation with zero basis in any facts.

Being realistic, you guys have been praying that FUNi would use the damn audio and they never did. It certainly shows something.

"Years"? Dude, the audio literally(Yes. Literally. As in this is the fact of what happened) was only delivered to Sabat in February 2017. It's barely been a year. And that was just the basic collection; back when ~50 episodes in the middle were crap, 34 of GT were missing, the last episode of DB was missing, both specials were using an inferior source, and some higher quality sources of several episodes hadn't appeared yet.
This is actually a pretty new development, dude.

I wasn't actually talking about that but the constant broadcast audio talk here and there, which clearly went over your head.

But y'know what, we're getting off track here, and your tone is getting increasingly insulting. Calm down and walk away. I'm not going anywhere, we can come back to this later in PMs if necessary, but just walk away and calm down for now; you're clearly getting annoyed with me, otherwise you wouldn't be making fun of my use of the word "Literally", and saying stuff about me trying to "Pat [myself] on the back". Just, please go calm down somewhere, and come back when you're in a more relaxed mood. I'm not trying to talk down to you or anything -- as I said, I don't care -- it's just that we're veering pretty far off-topic, and you're getting pretty mean. Just calm down, walk away, and come back later with a clear head.

Old buddy, old pal. You think I'm the one getting annoyed? . I'm so literally mad, don't you see? Pff. Come on.

[Kuwabara]

You make it seem like the overwhelming cost that caused Funimation to stop producing the Level Sets, was the packaging. That's not the case. The restoration process itself was the expensive part, as they hired a team of professionals to sit there and frame-by-frame correct the series. That cost them money. It's not about putting out enough episodes per disc. They were testing the waters if they should continue or not. Very smart people calculated how many episodes they needed per disc, probably putting it up against the sales of the orange bricks and other releases, to determine how many sets they'd need and at what cost, to make any sort of profit that's worth making. And apparently, the experiment failed. So, how do you figure that they went wrong by releasing it too early on with not enough episodes per set?

So according to your plan, they should have spent a ton of money to have the entire series restored on a pure gamble that they might or might not make their money back in an untested market, then put more episodes out per set, which meant less sets and thus, less opportunity to make back the money.

It isn't an untested market at all and not a gamble, I have no idea what you're talking about. If the Levels were released more like the current Blu-ray sets in terms of episode count and price, people would have bought them regardless because it's Dragon Ball Z, just like people would have still bought the Orange Bricks in droves if they were 4:3. It's Dragon Ball Z and at an affordable price. You also make it sound as if Funimation has nothing else going on in their portfolio to make them money. They're sitting on their current DVD sets of Dragon Ball, Z, and GT, which consistently make them money, on top of hundreds of other anime series they've licensed and released, which they can then (and often will) re-release in bigger, cheaper sets to make more money.

And what about when Funimation released most of Z and all of GT in 3 episode volumes? They produced so many of these, per volume, that you can still readily find most of them for reasonably cheap, brand new. For such long series, that had to have been expensive, and a logistical nightmare, but they did it. So, you seriously think they couldn't have finished the Levels restoration if they would have just taken their time?

And no, I don't think "very smart people" calculated much of anything worthwhile regarding the Levels, that should be obvious from the poor sales. Like the Ultimate Uncuts, it was more an issue of market oversaturation/timing, and poor marketing. The entire release strategy was a complete fumble every step of the way, though I partly blame fans for not buying them when the first two volumes were stellar releases. We had a close to perfect release that assailed everything we complained about with the Orange Bricks, and not enough fans voted with their wallets.