Filler Material

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Super_Divine_Genki
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Re: Filler Material

Post by Super_Divine_Genki » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:15 pm

I like most of the filler throughout the series, as long as it's not creating plotholes or inconsistencies. Some great ones have already been mentioned (like Super Sacred Water, Space Orphans, and RoSaT training).

I guess that I'll add the Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Yamucha, and Chaozu content on Kaio's planet -- the stuff before the Ginyu's show up.

The flashbacks with King Vegeta are a nice touch.

Vegeta's flashback to when he became a SSJ.

I really like the stuff leading up to the Cell Games that featured Gohan, and also Goku adventuring around and collecting DB's.

... and F.Trunks playing with squirrels.

I kinda don't mind the 'Wedding Dress' arc. We get to see Goku and Chi-Chi adventuring around, and another appearance by Grandpa Gohan.

I'm not a fan of the Driver Training content, and indifferent to the Great Saiyaman stuff (I do like seeing Gohan in High School though).

It's been years since I've seen the Garlic Jr. arc -- I remember liking the small bits with Vegeta a lot, but the overall story feeling too drawn out and a missed opportunity to make use of some of the 'classic' lineup.

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Re: Filler Material

Post by Lightdasher » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:16 pm

Pre-Cell Games filler was heartwarming for me since I got to see Goku hang about with his family and friends. Him and Gohan being calm Super Saiyans is satisfying for me too.

Goku and Piccolo getting their driving licenses, even if Goku's the only one shown to use his later. Who could blame Piccolo, I suppose? Nevertheless, that entire episode is a nice and hilarious break from the intensity which mostly accompanies the show.

I'm indifferent to most of the Otherworld Tournament, but Goku's fight against Pikkon stands out to me, especially because Super Kaio-Ken!! <3 I wish it implemented into at least one of the games.

Goku and Vegeta inside Super Buu is very nice for me, quite a bit of comedy and we get to see the two fight together as the last Super Saiyans.

Super Saiyan 2 Goku's fight with Kid Buu. One of my favorite fights in the show, and my favorite Super Saiyan form!

Hm, what else..? I have a few more examples in mind, only problem is I'm not 100% sure they're filler. Can I include all of GT too? xD
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Re: Filler Material

Post by precita » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:55 am

I enjoy almost all the filler, even the bad ones like Princess Snake or Bulma's Namek adventures. Only filler I really hate is Fake Namek, but oh well.

This is why I can't watch Kai. I feel like I'm "missing things" because it cuts out all the filler, and I miss those stories and consider them canon.

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Re: Filler Material

Post by GamerSkull » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:15 am

precita wrote:I enjoy almost all the filler, even the bad ones like Princess Snake or Bulma's Namek adventures. Only filler I really hate is Fake Namek, but oh well.

This is why I can't watch Kai. I feel like I'm "missing things" because it cuts out all the filler, and I miss those stories and consider them canon.
I agree. While Kai is closer to the manga, I think I find it better to just read the manga for that.

This is why I stopped watching Kai and switched back to Z.
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Re: Filler Material

Post by Jord » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:59 am

Robo4900 wrote: Z episode 288. Honestly, this could have been where the series ended, and I'd have been happy.
To me, this felt like the ending of the series, especially with the narration at the end of the episode. The real ending felt tacked on to me, strange as it may sound.

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Re: Filler Material

Post by Marugoto » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:03 am

I'm probably in the minority here, but DBZ episode 1 is a vastly superior introduction for Gohan compared to the manga. We actually get to know him a bit before the main plot kicks in. Him getting lost in the wilderness and his run in with the tiger from the very first episode really show just how different he is from Goku. We also get a first glimpse of his hidden powers. In the manga he felt more of a convenient plot device at first to help defeat Radditz. We didn't really get to know him until Piccolo dropped him off in Dinosaur Land.

I generally hold all of the filler in the original show and Z's Saiyajin arc in high regard. When I started buying the manga as a kid, I was shocked how much of the good stuff was missing. Namek arc onward was a lot more hit or miss. But when it was good, it was really good. All things considered Dragon ball had a great adaptation, especially compared to a majority of Movies and Shows nowadays.

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Re: Filler Material

Post by precita » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:54 pm

Am I the only one who thinks filler was mostly good in the the entire Dragonball/DBZ run outside of maybe the Namek saga?

I really enjoy almost all original Dragonball filler. In DBZ, I like most of the Saiyan saga filler, the Cell saga filler was so good I didn't even know it was filler, and in the Buu saga I really enjoy the Otherworld tournament, most Saiyaman episodes, the longer fights with Goku/Majin Vegeta, all the extra Fat Buu scenes, the base Gotenks fight Vs Buu, the innards of Buu, the base Vegito fight, etc.

The Namek saga is really he only time filler got bothersome. Fake Namek was a drag, and the actual Namek filler after that could be hit or miss. Of course once the Goku/Freeza fight starts the padding is ridiculous, but besides that I was fine. The Garlic Jr. saga was a nice bridge arc too.

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Re: Filler Material

Post by KBABZ » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:48 pm

What are people's thoughts on filler inserted directly into manga content rather than individual arcs? Stuff like Bulma and the Crabs, or the other Z Fighters deciding to fight Cell alongside Gohan, or the rain delay in the Giran match, or the Pinball chase.

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Re: Filler Material

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:31 pm

precita wrote:I enjoy almost all the filler, even the bad ones like Princess Snake or Bulma's Namek adventures. Only filler I really hate is Fake Namek, but oh well.

This is why I can't watch Kai. I feel like I'm "missing things" because it cuts out all the filler, and I miss those stories and consider them canon.
There are a couple of other ones I'm not a fan of(Such as DB #83, the Ginyu frog material, probably a couple of others), but yeah, I basically agree. :)
precita wrote:Am I the only one who thinks filler was mostly good in the the entire Dragonball/DBZ run outside of maybe the Namek saga?
Nah, I agree with you totally. :)
Jord wrote:
Robo4900 wrote: Z episode 288. Honestly, this could have been where the series ended, and I'd have been happy.
To me, this felt like the ending of the series, especially with the narration at the end of the episode. The real ending felt tacked on to me, strange as it may sound.
I know what you mean. To me, the sort of "True ending" feels more like a coda than a real ending. The story is over, we're just seeing one final hour of these characters hanging out, and seeing that basically everyone does get their happily ever after.
Though, on the other hand, it also functions as a sort of bridging section/breather between the end of Akira Toriyama's original Dragon Ball story, and the beginning of Toei's creation of Dragon Ball GT. I know many aren't such fans of GT, but I've always loved it, and to me, the way GT ends is how the Dragon Ball story truly ends. That whole final episode was just perfect.
But, in terms of the original story, yeah, I consider 288 to be the true "Ending", with episodes 289-291 being a coda section. :)
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Re: Filler Material

Post by ABED » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:47 pm

KBABZ wrote:What are people's thoughts on filler inserted directly into manga content rather than individual arcs? Stuff like Bulma and the Crabs, or the other Z Fighters deciding to fight Cell alongside Gohan, or the rain delay in the Giran match, or the Pinball chase.
It's a mixed bag. Sometimes it works like when Goku's friends try to help Gohan. Othertimes it's god awful like Bulma and the crab. Some of the worst is the cutaways that hurts the momentum and pace like when Goku and Freeza are running towards each other about to engage in mortal combat and it cuts back to Earth to Chichi packing up to leave for Namek.
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Re: Filler Material

Post by Jord » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:07 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Jord wrote:
Robo4900 wrote: Z episode 288. Honestly, this could have been where the series ended, and I'd have been happy.
To me, this felt like the ending of the series, especially with the narration at the end of the episode. The real ending felt tacked on to me, strange as it may sound.
I know what you mean. To me, the sort of "True ending" feels more like a coda than a real ending. The story is over, we're just seeing one final hour of these characters hanging out, and seeing that basically everyone does get their happily ever after.
Though, on the other hand, it also functions as a sort of bridging section/breather between the end of Akira Toriyama's original Dragon Ball story, and the beginning of Toei's creation of Dragon Ball GT. I know many aren't such fans of GT, but I've always loved it, and to me, the way GT ends is how the Dragon Ball story truly ends. That whole final episode was just perfect.
But, in terms of the original story, yeah, I consider 288 to be the true "Ending", with episodes 289-291 being a coda section. :)
I like GT a lot too actually and it picks up perfectly from the end of Z so I completely agree. The music may be different and the characters may be older but the 1st episode of GT in a lot of ways feels like the next episode of Z. Actually it feels more like a continuation than the remaining Z episodes after the timeskip.

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Re: Filler Material

Post by DBZ Macky » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:00 am

ulisa wrote: Goku's Travels Around the World--Originally, I didn't much care for these adventures but when I revisited them, they are definitely some of the highlights of the original Dragonball. It's a great way to see how Goku grew and developed and I think that exploration gave him a lot of the "earthling" traits that we see later and a new appreciation for the world as a hole. With as wide as the world gets in later sagas with whole other alien races and planets, I sometimes forget that Goku originally was a completely isolated boy in the mountains. This, I feel, was one of the first times he really got to see how large the world was.
Pretty much this. I feel that the filler before the 22nd Budokai is criminally underrated. The InoShikaCho, Ginkaku Kinkaku, etc. stuff made for some pretty interesting plot lines. Aaand they introduced Tenshinhan as a douchebag, so that's a plus point.
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Re: Filler Material

Post by johnboy1 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:14 pm

For all of its faults, I honestly think that the anime filler helps create a more fleshed-out world for the Dragon Ball franchise than the manga did by itself.
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Re: Filler Material

Post by dbgtFO » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:02 pm

johnboy1 wrote:For all of its faults, I honestly think that the anime filler helps create a more fleshed-out world for the Dragon Ball franchise than the manga did by itself.
I completely agree with you.
It always disappointed me, how much content the manga didn't have compared to the anime, back when I was a kid.
So my ideal Dragon Ball experience is in anime format with all the filler, mostly repetitive battle scenes to be cut out, but still sticking closely to the spirit of Toriyama's Dragon Ball.

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Re: Filler Material

Post by precita » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:57 pm

Definitely. Whenever I read the manga, or even Kai, it feels rushed to me. I want to SEE the characters training. I love the slice of life episodes.

I love some of the "extra fights" the anime does too. Krillin fighting Imperfect Cell at the airport was so good I was shocked to learn it was filler and wasn't in the manga. I also shocked we didn't get to see base Gotenks fight with Fat Buu in the manga, I loved that in the anime

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Re: Filler Material

Post by ABED » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:02 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
johnboy1 wrote:For all of its faults, I honestly think that the anime filler helps create a more fleshed-out world for the Dragon Ball franchise than the manga did by itself.
I completely agree with you.
It always disappointed me, how much content the manga didn't have compared to the anime, back when I was a kid.
So my ideal Dragon Ball experience is in anime format with all the filler, mostly repetitive battle scenes to be cut out, but still sticking closely to the spirit of Toriyama's Dragon Ball.
Wow, repetitive BATTLE scenes? The fight filler doesn't bother me. It's the cutaways that hurt the narrative momentum that bothers me.

I like that Goku fell off Snake Way. Goku's given this ominous warning, but actually having it happen was a nice payoff. Even though Goku ends defeating Gozu and Mezu pretty easily, it still gives a greater sense of urgency to Goku's travels down Snake Way as he has to start all over again.
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Re: Filler Material

Post by KBABZ » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:52 pm

Reading this thread has helped me realize that when most people are referring to filler, they're talking about specific arcs that flesh out and add to the story, particularly "timeskip" arcs that fill out what characters were doing at certain times (Saiyan Training, Solo Training, etc).

The negatively-taken ones seem to be stuff that distracts from the main storyline, like Bulma and the Crabs, Frog Bulma and Chi-Chi trying to get to Namek. For me this also extends to dragging out existing fights with a lot of standing still staring and adding in "struggles" where we see the same limited animation loops over and over again. Goku breaking Giran's gum and Goku and Tien's wrestling lock fall into that category.

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Re: Filler Material

Post by TheZFighter » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:21 pm

I've generally always been a fan of the filler content, taking it for what it is. I'm probably echoing what a lot of others have said, but a few examples I've always really liked;

Red Ribbon Army filler - there's a good episode where Goku and Suno try to get a doctor to remove the bomb from inside Android 8 that I liked.

Goku's "around the world" training - some great episodes. I've always loved the one with Sky Dragon most, but honorable mentions for the Terror and Plague one, the Tien/ Chiaotzu InaShikaCho one, and the one where he befriends that green Fox.

Piccolo Jr filler - there was a good episode featuring Yamcha, Krillin, Tien and Chiaotzu whilst on their way to Korin's that I liked.

Saiyan filler - Some of the episodes with Gohan in the wild were really good. The one with Pigero and the orphans has always been a favourite of mine. I enjoyed all of the stuff with Goku on Snake Way, particularly the ones with Goz and Mez and Princess Snake. I liked the episode where Vegeta and Nappa visited Arlia. Obviously as a fan of Yamcha, Krillin, Tien and Chiaotzu, I loved the episode where we saw the "C-Team" travelling back to Planet Vegeta.

Namek filler - I didn't like any of the "journey to Namek" stuff like the space orphans and fake Namek, but I liked all of the stuff with Piccolo, Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu on King Kai's planet. I enjoyed getting to see them train, etc, and loved the part where Piccolo was surprised at how much they'd improved. I know it is unpopular and doesn't make sense, but I enjoyed seeing Yamcha, Tien and Chiaotzu defeating the Ginyu Force as well.

Garlic Jr Saga - may not be popular but I've always loved it. The Spice Boys were great. I just wish Tien and Chiaotzu had been involved.

Cell filler - everyone jumping in to help Gohan against Cell was enjoyable.

Other World Tournament Saga - I've always thought this was brilliant. Loads of action and so many interesting characters.

A lot of good content when you look back at it.
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Re: Filler Material

Post by KBABZ » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:25 pm

TheZFighter wrote:Piccolo Jr filler - there was a good episode featuring Yamcha, Krillin, Tien and Chiaotzu whilst on their way to Korin's that I liked.
That would have been the one called Hotter than Lava in the dub, I think.

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Re: Filler Material

Post by ABED » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:39 pm

KBABZ wrote:Reading this thread has helped me realize that when most people are referring to filler, they're talking about specific arcs that flesh out and add to the story, particularly "timeskip" arcs that fill out what characters were doing at certain times (Saiyan Training, Solo Training, etc).

The negatively-taken ones seem to be stuff that distracts from the main storyline, like Bulma and the Crabs, Frog Bulma and Chi-Chi trying to get to Namek. For me this also extends to dragging out existing fights with a lot of standing still staring and adding in "struggles" where we see the same limited animation loops over and over again. Goku breaking Giran's gum and Goku and Tien's wrestling lock fall into that category.
I liked seeing Goku struggle to break Giran's gum as well as the wrestling test of strength. The staring can help build tension, but it has its limits. Fight filler doesn't bother me because in the scheme of things, there's not much of it and at least it's action. The cutaways in mid-battle are distracting.
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