Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by GamerSkull » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:48 pm

I personally find SSJ3 to be the ugliest of forms. Hair is tooooooo long, and the no eyebrows thing bothers me. :lol:
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:22 am

GamerSkull wrote:I personally find SSJ3 to be the ugliest of forms. Hair is tooooooo long, and the no eyebrows thing bothers me. :lol:
It looks fine on Goku but anyone else it deffo is ugly especially Vegeta he looks pretty laughable in it.

Same for SS4 too, Goku (and Gogeta) look good in it but everyone else for me doesn't and again I have to single out Vegeta 'cuz his SS4 looks pure garbage in my opinion (not design related but I always despised the way he achieved SS4 compared to Goku too).

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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by SuperCyan2 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:48 pm

Personally, Super Saiyan 4 is my second favorite form, and with the first being Super Saiyan 2, of course. However, the newer Super Saiyan forms just feel like they'll never be able to rival the classic ones.

Classic Super Saiyan Forms:
- Super Saiyan
- Super Saiyan 2
- Super Saiyan 3
- Super Saiyan 4

Modern Super Saiyan Forms:
- Super Saiyan God
- Super Saiyan Blue
- Super Saiyan Rosé
- Ultra Instinct
- Mastered Ultra Instinct

I think I might have missed a Modern Super Saiyan transformation but that's okay, which brings me to my point, the Modern Saiyan transformations somewhat feel like a small step in a character's Saiyan form as he only changes his hair color or gets thinner. Speaking of the 'thinner' form, the later forms made the Saiyan God form redundant as the others are so much more powerful, apparently.
GamerSkull wrote:I personally find SSJ3 to be the ugliest of forms. Hair is tooooooo long, and the no eyebrows thing bothers me. :lol:
Super Saiyan 3 in this picture/scene has always looked great to me (guess it's the shadow and golden-y colors to it) and artistic but seriously, Goku has too much damn hair. :P

Image

In Xenoverse 2, I even avoid the Super Saiyan 3 transformation and prefer to go for the second form, instead.
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by ZeroNeonix » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:49 pm

SuperCyan2 wrote:Personally, Super Saiyan 4 is my second favorite form, and with the first being Super Saiyan 2, of course. However, the newer Super Saiyan forms just feel like they'll never be able to rival the classic ones.

Classic Super Saiyan Forms:
- Super Saiyan
- Super Saiyan 2
- Super Saiyan 3
- Super Saiyan 4

Modern Super Saiyan Forms:
- Super Saiyan God
- Super Saiyan Blue
- Super Saiyan Rosé
- Ultra Instinct
- Mastered Ultra Instinct

I think I might have missed a Modern Super Saiyan transformation but that's okay, which brings me to my point, the Modern Saiyan transformations somewhat feel like a small step in a character's Saiyan form as he only changes his hair color or gets thinner. Speaking of the 'thinner' form, the later forms made the Saiyan God form redundant as the others are so much more powerful, apparently.
GamerSkull wrote:I personally find SSJ3 to be the ugliest of forms. Hair is tooooooo long, and the no eyebrows thing bothers me. :lol:
Super Saiyan 3 in this picture/scene has always looked great to me (guess it's the shadow and golden-y colors to it) and artistic but seriously, Goku has too much damn hair. :P

Image

In Xenoverse 2, I even avoid the Super Saiyan 3 transformation and prefer to go for the second form, instead.
You missed Super Saiyan Rage (Trunks' form), Super Saiyan Berserker and its calmer, thinner form (Kale's forms). Also, apparently Vegeta's new transformation, the one beyond Super Saiyan Blue, is called Super Saiyan Evolution. Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken is another. There are so many Saiyan transformations now, it's getting ridiculous.

But yes, I agree with what you say. Modern Saiyan transformations are mainly the same as previous transformations, just with different colors. I do like Super Saiyan Blue, since it did something different with the Saiyan evolution. But it came so soon after Super Saiyan God that it made that form obsolete almost as soon as it had appeared. The other Saiyan transformations, though, I don't really care for. Rage and Rosé were never explained, so I don't even know what they are. Kale reintroduced the Legendary Super Saiyan transformation, although it changed the name. It's okay. Super Saiyan Evolution is basically the same as Blue, but with a different shade of blue and with black in the middle of his eyes. This transformation failed to beat Jiren, and Goku's Ultra Instinct already makes it obsolete, so what's the point?

Technically, Ultra Instinct isn't a Saiyan-specific transformation. It seems implied that anyone can potentially achieve it. The concept of the body fighting on its own is a cool concept, and I wonder if Goku will continue to use it since it takes all the fun out of fighting. Designwise, it's simple but fine.

One thing I find interesting is how polar opposite the transformations of Super Saiyan 4 and are Super Saiyan Blue are. The original Super Saiyan is fueled by rage, and the Super Saiyan 4 transformation turned that into a primal, viscous rage. Blue did the opposite. Since god ki is apparently calmer than mortal ki, the Blue form is calm and collected. I like both for this reason. Four is kinda weird with the pants that come out of nowhere, but I especially like the Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta form, with the red hair. I have no idea why their hair turns red when they fuse, but it looks cool anyway.

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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by Grimlock » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:18 pm

ZeroNeonix wrote:Rage and Rosé were never explained, so I don't even know what they are.
Super Saiyan Rosé was. It is Goku Black's version of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Since Goku Black is still a god, his hair turns pink instead of blue (for mortals). Please read the manga before stating something was never explained.
ZeroNeonix wrote:Also, apparently Vegeta's new transformation, the one beyond Super Saiyan Blue, is called Super Saiyan Evolution.
ZeroNeonix wrote:Super Saiyan Evolution is basically the same as Blue, but with a different shade of blue and with black in the middle of his eyes.
Actually its name is "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan - Evolution", that is why it is the same as Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, because it essentially is that said transformation.
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:24 pm

ZeroNeonix wrote: Super Saiyan Evolution is basically the same as Blue, but with a different shade of blue and with black in the middle of his eyes. This transformation failed to beat Jiren, and Goku's Ultra Instinct already makes it obsolete, so what's the point?.
This is probably the biggest problem with Vegeta's new form: it's obsolete before it's even introduced. We know the series is gonna give Vegeta Ultra Instinct and giving him a new form 10 episodes before the series is over just so he can catch up to Blue Kaio-Ken feels like a narrative choice done about 50 or so episodes too, too late to work right.
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by ZeroNeonix » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:38 pm

Grimlock wrote:
ZeroNeonix wrote:Rage and Rosé were never explained, so I don't even know what they are.
Super Saiyan Rosé was. It is Goku Black's version of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Since Goku Black is still a god, his hair turns pink instead of blue (for mortals). Please read the manga before stating something was never explained.
I figured it was something like that, but I shouldn't have to read from an outside source to understand something that happens in the anime. Is the third issue even out in English yet? Besides, the two are separate continuities anyway. Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken doesn't happen in the Universal Tournament, and Zamasu multiplies like an amoeba when cut in half in the manga. I don't think Super Saiyan Rage exists in the manga, either, so we probably won't get an explanation for that transformation either. Unless Future Trunks returns again or something.

My point is that Super Saiyan transformations used to be simple. They were numbered in order of power, each being a higher level than the last. Super's new transformations aren't numbered, making them less easy to grasp. Some even have more than one name (SSGSS/Super Saiyan Blue). The line of transformations has turned into a tree of branching pathways, and the differences between them aren't always made clear. Take Evolution for example. We know that Super Saiyan Blue is Super Saiyan God + Super Saiyan, so is SSGSS Evolution Super Saiyan God + Super Saiyan 2 or something else entirely? And for crying out loud, why did they put SSGSS in the name? That just makes it super long, especially after the shorter name Blue was already established.

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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by Grimlock » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:50 pm

ZeroNeonix wrote:Super's new transformations aren't numbered, making them less easy to grasp.
I disagree. I don't know what's so difficult in understanding what "Super Saiyan God", "Super Saiyan Rosé" and mainly "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" are. But I'll give you "Super Saiyan Rage", it might seem like it, but it's not an obvious name.
ZeroNeonix wrote:so is SSGSS Evolution Super Saiyan God + Super Saiyan 2 or something else entirely?
No, it is something else entirely. As the name implies, it is an upgrade to the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan form, not in the same sense/way Super Saiyan 2 is to Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan - Evolution is more like what Super Saiyan Second Grade and Super Saiyan Third Grade are to the Super Saiyan form, just a step above, but not a new transformation, much less one that takes two forms. I'd say the correct term would be "power-up" instead of "new transformation".
ZeroNeonix wrote:And for crying out loud, why did they put SSGSS in the name? That just makes it super long, especially after the shorter name Blue was already established.
Because all you need to know about that transformation is written in the very name. It's long and idiotic (as all occasions where words are repeated) but it works, the name explains the form the best way. It is also much better than a 4-year-old child idealized name "Super Saiyan Blue".
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by Logania » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:58 pm

Grimlock wrote: Because all you need to know about that transformation is written in the very name. It's long and idiotic (as all occasions where words are repeated) but it works, the name explains the form the best way. It is also much better than a 4-year-old child idealized name "Super Saiyan Blue".
If only they would've just called SSJG 'Saiyan God', then SSJB 'Super Saiyan God' it would've been so much more simple and still make sense. Now we got colors...
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by ZeroNeonix » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:07 am

Logania wrote:
Grimlock wrote: Because all you need to know about that transformation is written in the very name. It's long and idiotic (as all occasions where words are repeated) but it works, the name explains the form the best way. It is also much better than a 4-year-old child idealized name "Super Saiyan Blue".
If only they would've just called SSJG 'Saiyan God', then SSJB 'Super Saiyan God' it would've been so much more simple and still make sense. Now we got colors...
Those were my thoughts when Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was first introduced. I don't think they were planning that far in advance. That or they just really thought bringing attention to the ridiculousness of the name would too hilarious to pass up. Imagine if after the show returns from its hiatus that Goku learns how to combine Ultra Instinct with other transformations (which I think is likely, as you can't go too long in Dragon Ball without a new transformation). Then we'll have Ultra Instinct Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Kaioken x10 Goku. Try saying that ten times fast.

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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by lancerman » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:02 am

SSJ4 was the most popular thing about GT and the only thing people universally liked about the series. It kind of helps that kid Goku was viewed as a terrible decision and SSJ4 was the only way to get regular adult Goku back.

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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by Spider-Man » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:54 pm

Bullza wrote:I think had Super Saiyan 4 had this colour scheme then I'd have been more of a fan of it. I'd even say it would be the best looking one maybe.

Image

Otherwise I have no idea why he has pink-red fur by then Vegeta has a dark red fur. Vegeta also has brown hair for some reasons.

Also turning into Super Saiyan 4 gave him pants that he wasn't wearing. It's just strange.
I would like this forms even more if his fur and hair match like SS4 Gogeta which is why I like his design more than Goku and Vegeta.

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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by t0ffe3m4n » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:41 pm

Quite possibly the best Saiyan design in the entire franchise.

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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by GamerSkull » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:44 pm

t0ffe3m4n wrote:https://i.imgur.com/5xK90vs.png

Quite possibly the best Saiyan design in the entire franchise.
Yeah, looks damn good.
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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by Bullza » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:03 pm

But why does he have red hair....

That's what I mean about it being confusing. With Gotenks his hair was just a mix between the colours of Goten and Trunks' hair and when he turns Super Saiyan he still has blonde hair. As does Super Saiyan Gogeta.

Yet for some reason with Super Saiyan 4 the hair just randomly changes colours when it should really just be black.

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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by ZeroNeonix » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:31 pm

Bullza wrote:But why does he have red hair....

That's what I mean about it being confusing. With Gotenks his hair was just a mix between the colours of Goten and Trunks' hair and when he turns Super Saiyan he still has blonde hair. As does Super Saiyan Gogeta.

Yet for some reason with Super Saiyan 4 the hair just randomly changes colours when it should really just be black.
I remember when I first saw pictures of Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta when I was a kid. It was before GT actually aired, and I thought it was Super Saiyan 5 because of that hair. Super Saiyan 4 is weird, but there's just something appealing about it.

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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by t0ffe3m4n » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:12 am

Just whilst we're on the subject of Gogeta, someone uploaded a video onto YouTube setting the fusion scene in GT to the 'Birth of a God' track from Super and I didn't realise that I wanted to see this so badly until now! :clap:

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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:54 am

t0ffe3m4n wrote:Just whilst we're on the subject of Gogeta, someone uploaded a video onto YouTube setting the fusion scene in GT to the 'Birth of a God' track from Super and I didn't realise that I wanted to see this so badly until now! :clap:
Holy shit that was amazing

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Re: Super Saiyan 4 is more well liked than I thought

Post by SuperCyan2 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:21 am

t0ffe3m4n wrote:Just whilst we're on the subject of Gogeta, someone uploaded a video onto YouTube setting the fusion scene in GT to the 'Birth of a God' track from Super and I didn't realise that I wanted to see this so badly until now! :clap:
Even in 2017 the YT DB community still has the audacity to call it "1080p Remaster". :lol: I ain't a Sumitomo fan but that's genuinely a good song, if only the rest of his tunes were as good as this was.
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