Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:28 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:Face it, Dragon Ball makes too much money for it to just go away. At least we have Toriyama on the ride for the time being too. :thumbup:
While I am happy that DB is doing well, I am NOT happy that the likes of Bandai are using this success to treat fans like shit. They charged fans ~13,000yen (~$120) for this figure set and the final version (once fans had already placed orders months ago as once the deadline is over that is it so fans would have no idea what the final versions would look like) looked like complete shit like bootleg tier bad!

Why do companies do this? When something is a success they cut corners? It is honestly pretty disgusting. If I was a Japanese resident and bought this I would be on the phone to Bandai not giving them a rest. Sure they gave the usual prototype disclaimer but this was beyond a f**king joke.
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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by FortuneSSJ » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:51 pm

About time they did that. Can I finally have my Universe 6 spin-off series?!
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by PFM18 » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:47 pm

I don't care how much investment Toei invests into making Dragon ball good if Toriyama isn't on board for it then I don't really have interest in it. Otherwise I expect a GT 2.0 and I won't waste my time watching something like that

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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by sintzu » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:31 pm

PFM18 wrote:I don't care how much investment Toei invests into making Dragon ball good if Toriyama isn't on board for it then I don't really have interest in it. Otherwise I expect a GT 2.0 and I won't waste my time watching something like that
I think the reason we're getting this department and the dragon ball room is to avoid another GT once Toriyama leaves.
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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:19 am

sintzu wrote:I think the reason we're getting this department and the dragon ball room is to avoid another GT once Toriyama leaves.
That's already happening with Toriyama at the helm. :P
PFM18 wrote:I don't care how much investment Toei invests into making Dragon ball good if Toriyama isn't on board for it then I don't really have interest in it. Otherwise I expect a GT 2.0 and I won't waste my time watching something like that
That's a pretty naive attitude to take. All the filler and movies before 2013 were made by Toei without any real involvement from Toriyama. Same for the two TV specials, which are considered to be among the best pieces of Dragon Ball media there is.
And taking things outside of Dragon Ball, most comic book movies and TV shows aren't written by the original comic authors, and yet many of those are considered rather excellent.
And even within Dragon Ball, the Yamcha manga from last year was pretty well-received. So, I'd say bringing new writers in to do Dragon Ball sounds really good.

Also, GT 2.0 would be a beautifully-animated, well-paced series with rather excellent plot ideas, and some of the best music in the franchise. And "2.0" implies the next version, so presumably it wouldn't spend its first 10-12 episodes stumbling over itself, and wouldn't completely drop the ball for its equivalent of the Super #17 arc, and the first few episodes of the Evil Dragons arc either. So... GT 2.0 sounds a lot better than Super, at least.
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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by PFM18 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:30 am

Robo4900 wrote:
sintzu wrote:I think the reason we're getting this department and the dragon ball room is to avoid another GT once Toriyama leaves.
That's already happening with Toriyama at the helm. :P
PFM18 wrote:I don't care how much investment Toei invests into making Dragon ball good if Toriyama isn't on board for it then I don't really have interest in it. Otherwise I expect a GT 2.0 and I won't waste my time watching something like that
That's a pretty naive attitude to take. All the filler and movies before 2013 were made by Toei without any real involvement from Toriyama. Same for the two TV specials, which are considered to be among the best pieces of Dragon Ball media there is.
And taking things outside of Dragon Ball, most comic book movies and TV shows aren't written by the original comic authors, and yet many of those are considered rather excellent.

Also, GT 2.0 would be a beautifully-animated, well-paced series with rather excellent plot ideas, and some of the best music in the franchise. And "2.0" implies the next version, so presumably it would have a much better start, and wouldn't screw up its equivalent of the Super #17 arc, and the first few episodes of the Evil Dragons arc either. So... GT 2.0 sounds a lot better than Super, at least.
You make a great point. All of the filler and the movies were made by Toei and Toriyama. Thy were complete garbage in all of those instances. A perfect example of what DB looks llike without AT's influence. And by "GT 2.0" I didn't mean anything further than just being another series without Toriyama's influence. And of course GT was without Toriyama's influence and it was an embarassment to the franchise outside of the Baby arc and even that wasn't even that good. Super has Toriyama's involvement and has produced some of the best moments in the entire franchise and in my eyes easily the best fight in the history of the series in Jiren vs Goku.(and this is with having several of the other big fights fresh in my mind)

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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:14 am

PFM18 wrote:You make a great point. All of the filler and the movies were made by Toei and Toriyama. Thy were complete garbage in all of those instances. A perfect example of what DB looks llike without AT's influence.
What? No.
The four DB movies, and all the Z movies apart from 3, 4, 6, 7, 10, and 11 are very well-liked. That totals out to 11 good movies, and only 6 not good movies, none of which had any Toriyama involvement aside from a few character designs.
Filler is something a bit more polarising, but the stuff people criticise is just a few pieces here and there(Fake Namek, Garlic Jr.), with the rest entirely being the padding like the cutaways to an irrelevant person doing nonsense during a main arc. Most fans generally appreciate the Saiyan arc training filler, most of the filler in the original series, etc.
PFM18 wrote:And by "GT 2.0" I didn't mean anything further than just being another series without Toriyama's influence.
Except he helped them develop the concept of the show, he signed off on the storyline ideas, he designed the main characters... GT was well within his influence in its early days. In fact, after Toriyama's initial involvement in the first 10-12 episodes was done, the show got a lot better. So, that works against what you're trying to say.
PFM18 wrote:And of course GT was without Toriyama's influence and it was an embarassment to the franchise outside of the Baby arc and even that wasn't even that good.
Your opinion. Loads of people like GT(Including Toriyama himself :P ). In Japan, the only reason it really failed was that the viewership never really picked up after its massive fall in the Boo arc(The viewership had been dropping throughout the Boo arc, and continued at the same rate across GT), and it didn't have a manga to back it. The fans had fallen into some major franchise fatigue, and that was all.
The hatedom you hear online doesn't represent the true reception of GT. If you took that approach, you'd think The Last Jedi was considered the worst Star Wars film of all time, when in fact its hatedom is just a loud minority.
GT's IMDB score averaged from 19483 ratings is 6.9/10. AnimeNewsNetwork, using 3331 ratings, averages to 5/10.

Anyway, can we stop beating this dead horse? You clearly hate GT and won't hear anything other than "It's literally the devil incarnate", and as I have demonstrated with the above, I vehemently disagree; neither of us are going to change our views, so let's drop that point.
PFM18 wrote:Super has Toriyama's involvement and has produced some of the best moments in the entire franchise and in my eyes easily the best fight in the history of the series in Jiren vs Goku.(and this is with having several of the other big fights fresh in my mind)
You say that like a few good moments and fights make a good series. If that was true, DBZ movies 4, 6, and 7, Man Of Steel, Batman V Superman, Jack Ryan: Shadow Recuit, and Jason Borne would be good movies. They aren't.
And Toriyama doesn't even have any bearing on those things. He hands them a story outline and does some designs, that's it. Any good moments or fights would be down to Toei.
If the anime was based on Toyotaro's manga, then yes, Toriyama works on the storyboarding there, and sometimes draws a panel or two. But that's not the case. In the anime, character designs and story outlines are all he contributes.
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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by SuperCyan2 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:37 am

PFM18 wrote:I don't care how much investment Toei invests into making Dragon ball good if Toriyama isn't on board for it then I don't really have interest in it. Otherwise I expect a GT 2.0 and I won't waste my time watching something like that
This is a good example of fans who only think DB stuff with the Toriyama stamp is good. That's to say, if GT was a Toriyama production these same fans would love it. Pretty shallow.

The movies which are TOEI productions are bad cause.. it ain't by Toriyama. lol
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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:48 am

SuperCyan2 wrote:This is a good example of fans who only think DB stuff with the Toriyama stamp is good. That's to say, if GT was a Toriyama production these same fans would love it. Pretty shallow.

The movies which are TOEI productions are bad cause.. it ain't by Toriyama. lol
Haha.

Well, in my time in the Dragon Ball fandom, this has increasingly become what I've observed too.
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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by KBABZ » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:53 am

SuperCyan2 wrote:That's to say, if GT was a Toriyama production these same fans would love it.
I disagree on the basis that people have criticized Toriyama in the past. I personally find the sexual humour in the manga awkward and sometimes disgusting, and I recall in the old Manga Review that Meri didn't like how much the Frieza fight dragged on and on. This not even mentioning the criticism of Dragon Ball Super, or the enormous backlash towards Dragon Ball Minus' depiction of Bardock's story (inversely, there are several examples of positively-received non-Toriyama content like certain filler arcs/episodes, Episode of Bardock, some of the movies and the Jump! special, even by Toriyama himself).

But to your point, yes, I think GT would have gotten half of a free pass if Toriyama was more directly involved, kinda like what some people do for Super. Toriyama does have that magic touch aspect, but he's far from infallible.

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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by PFM18 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:10 am

SuperCyan2 wrote:
PFM18 wrote:I don't care how much investment Toei invests into making Dragon ball good if Toriyama isn't on board for it then I don't really have interest in it. Otherwise I expect a GT 2.0 and I won't waste my time watching something like that
This is a good example of fans who only think DB stuff with the Toriyama stamp is good. That's to say, if GT was a Toriyama production these same fans would love it. Pretty shallow.

The movies which are TOEI productions are bad cause.. it ain't by Toriyama. lol
The movies are bad because they have things like Bio Broly (or Broly in general) and Trunks using the kamehameha. They are not inherently bad because Toriyama isnt involved. However, It isn't a coincidence that ROF and BOG are probably the best movies.

Toriyama not being involved doesnt automatocally make it bad...it is just more so a way to rationalize why almost all of the movies and almost all of GT is bad. The bardock special was great so there is hope but Fusion reborn is the only non canon movie that isnt awful and even then it wasnt good. Not to mention none of them make sensw timeline wise.

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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by Bebi Hatchiyack » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:06 am

I think in addition to Toei we should have also Sunrise throw into the Dragon Ball Animation stuff.

Why Sunrise because Sunrise is part of Namco Bandai and they could animate the stuff from the game they made, like Dragon Ball Online, Dragon Ball Xenoverse and Super Dragon Ball Heroes. :thumbup:
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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by SuperCyan2 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:50 am

PFM18 wrote:The movies are bad because they have things like Bio Broly (or Broly in general) and Trunks using the kamehameha. They are not inherently bad because Toriyama isnt involved. However, It isn't a coincidence that ROF and BOG are probably the best movies.
Christ, I can't believe I just read this. :shock: But okay, I respect your opinion.
PFM18 wrote:Toriyama not being involved doesnt automatocally make it bad...it is just more so a way to rationalize why almost all of the movies and almost all of GT is bad. The bardock special was great so there is hope but Fusion reborn is the only non canon movie that isnt awful and even then it wasnt good. Not to mention none of them make sensw timeline wise.
I just enjoy it and don't give a flying spaghetti about Toriyama's involvement, if it's canon or the timeline. Even though you're claiming you don't dislike just because it's not by Toriyama, you are. One thing is disliking genuinely but then the other is just hating because it wasn't produced by someone specifically.

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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by ToshioWrites » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:12 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:About time they did that. Can I finally have my Universe 6 spin-off series?!
No you can’t

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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:44 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
SuperCyan2 wrote:This is a good example of fans who only think DB stuff with the Toriyama stamp is good. That's to say, if GT was a Toriyama production these same fans would love it. Pretty shallow.

The movies which are TOEI productions are bad cause.. it ain't by Toriyama. lol
Haha.

Well, in my time in the Dragon Ball fandom, this has increasingly become what I've observed too.
Well then you guys clearly must have turned a blind eye to all the criticism he got for ResF and Minus.

There's no proof you have that fans would love GT if it came from Toriyama's mind much less to have the damn cheek to suddenly call fans "shallow" based on absolutely this no basis statement.

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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by FortuneSSJ » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:47 pm

ToshioWrites wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote:About time they did that. Can I finally have my Universe 6 spin-off series?!
Yes, you can!
Thanks.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by sintzu » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:49 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:
SuperCyan2 wrote:This is a good example of fans who only think DB stuff with the Toriyama stamp is good. That's to say, if GT was a Toriyama production these same fans would love it. Pretty shallow.

The movies which are TOEI productions are bad cause.. it ain't by Toriyama. lol
Haha.

Well, in my time in the Dragon Ball fandom, this has increasingly become what I've observed too.
There's no proof you have that fans would love GT if it came from Toriyama's mind much less to have the damn cheek to suddenly call fans "shallow" based on absolutely this no basis statement.
Although I think fans would still have issues with GT, I also think they would've overlooked others if Toriyama's name was on it. This isn't a DB only thing as other products may get a pass based on who's working on them as well.
Last edited by sintzu on Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:50 pm

Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Well then you guys clearly must have turned a blind eye to all the criticism he got for ResF and Minus.

There's no proof you have that fans would love GT if it came from Toriyama's mind much less to have the damn cheek to suddenly call fans "shallow" based on absolutely this no basis statement.
Agreed. All these blanket "WELL ACTUALLY ALL OF THE FANS ___________" statements are baseless and have no place in a conversation here. There is no hivemind. There is no consensus. Plenty of different fans like different things, as you all are seeing play out literally in this very thread.

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Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

Post by The gr » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:56 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
ToshioWrites wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote:About time they did that. Can I finally have my Universe 6 spin-off series?!
Yes, you can!
Thanks.
While we're ahead of it,can we add a Jiren spin off series for his backstory .
    This is good news,more DB content.I want to see at least one side stories that don't focused on Goku and friends.

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    Re: Toei Establishes Department Focused on Dragon Ball

    Post by RedHeat » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:03 pm

    VegettoEX wrote:
    Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Well then you guys clearly must have turned a blind eye to all the criticism he got for ResF and Minus.

    There's no proof you have that fans would love GT if it came from Toriyama's mind much less to have the damn cheek to suddenly call fans "shallow" based on absolutely this no basis statement.
    Agreed. All these blanket "WELL ACTUALLY ALL OF THE FANS ___________" statements are baseless and have no place in a conversation here. There is no hivemind. There is no consensus. Plenty of different fans like different things, as you all are seeing play out literally in this very thread.

    Comments like those that have no basis in reality are not welcome and may be removed.
    Do you have any thoughts/predictions on the current topic?
    Feels over Reals.

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