PFM18 wrote:You make a great point. All of the filler and the movies were made by Toei and Toriyama. Thy were complete garbage in all of those instances. A perfect example of what DB looks llike without AT's influence.
What? No.
The four DB movies, and all the Z movies apart from 3, 4, 6, 7, 10, and 11 are very well-liked. That totals out to 11 good movies, and only 6 not good movies, none of which had any Toriyama involvement aside from a few character designs.
Filler is something a bit more polarising, but the stuff people criticise is just a few pieces here and there(Fake Namek, Garlic Jr.), with the rest entirely being the padding like the cutaways to an irrelevant person doing nonsense during a main arc. Most fans generally appreciate the Saiyan arc training filler, most of the filler in the original series, etc.
PFM18 wrote:And by "GT 2.0" I didn't mean anything further than just being another series without Toriyama's influence.
Except he helped them develop the concept of the show, he signed off on the storyline ideas, he designed the main characters... GT was well within his influence in its early days. In fact, after Toriyama's initial involvement in the first 10-12 episodes was done, the show got a lot better. So, that works against what you're trying to say.
PFM18 wrote:And of course GT was without Toriyama's influence and it was an embarassment to the franchise outside of the Baby arc and even that wasn't even that good.
Your opinion. Loads of people like GT(Including Toriyama himself
). In Japan, the only reason it really failed was that the viewership never really picked up after its massive fall in the Boo arc(The viewership had been dropping throughout the Boo arc, and continued at the same rate across GT), and it didn't have a manga to back it. The fans had fallen into some major franchise fatigue, and that was all.
The hatedom you hear online doesn't represent the true reception of GT. If you took that approach, you'd think The Last Jedi was considered the worst Star Wars film of all time, when in fact its hatedom is just a loud minority.
GT's IMDB score averaged from 19483 ratings is 6.9/10. AnimeNewsNetwork, using 3331 ratings, averages to 5/10.
Anyway, can we stop beating this dead horse? You clearly hate GT and won't hear anything other than "It's literally the devil incarnate", and as I have demonstrated with the above, I vehemently disagree; neither of us are going to change our views, so let's drop that point.
PFM18 wrote:Super has Toriyama's involvement and has produced some of the best moments in the entire franchise and in my eyes easily the best fight in the history of the series in Jiren vs Goku.(and this is with having several of the other big fights fresh in my mind)
You say that like a few good moments and fights make a good series. If that was true, DBZ movies 4, 6, and 7, Man Of Steel, Batman V Superman, Jack Ryan: Shadow Recuit, and Jason Borne would be good movies. They aren't.
And Toriyama doesn't even have any bearing on those things. He hands them a story outline and does some designs,
that's it. Any good moments or fights would be down to Toei.
If the anime was based on Toyotaro's manga, then yes, Toriyama works on the storyboarding there, and sometimes draws a panel or two. But that's not the case. In the anime, character designs and story outlines are all he contributes.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
AHAHAHAHAH ! And this is why I don't collect things also that takes dust and I'm too lazy 
But okay, I respect your opinion.
