Is the Fusion Saga the worse part of Dragon Ball Z?

[Bullza]

I suppose specifically the Dragon Ball Z portion of the manga at least.

I've been going through the anime and I finished it earlier but it reminded me of what I felt with the manga as well. The Fusion Saga, so everything from when Goku goes back the Otherworld to when Kid Buu comes into it.....it really drags.

It kinda feels like a complete waste of time and it's actually kinda boring. None of it really paid off that much. They hyped up the fusion but then Gotenks didn't beat Buu so then they hyped up Gohan and he didn't beat Buu and then they hyped up Vegito and he didn't beat Buu either.

The whole period seems like the series kinda stalled quite heavily and Toriyama didn't particularly know what he was going to do with it.

I also don't think much of Super Buu as a character. He was far more interesting when he was Fat Buu and then probably as Kid Buu as well. As main villains go he might be the worst one.

So I'd say the series would have been better off if they'd cut the entire Fusion stuff out and reworked it so more time was spent with Fat and Kid Buu.

[90sDBZ]

I'd have to disagree. I felt like it was the point where the overall Buu arc finally hit its stride and started to get really good. The big middle portion with Fat Buu was pretty slow after Vegeta's sacrifice. It was one long stretch of Buu and Babidi flying around wreaking havok while everyone else was getting their shit together on the lookout. Once Gotenks began fighting Super Buu it was one awesome fight after another, and lots of great moments like SS3 Gotenks, Mystic Gohan, the return of Goku and Vegeta and their awesome fusion.

I also really like Super Buu as a villain, particularly in the OG Funimation dub with Justin Cook's old performance and that awesome voice filter he had that made him sound high pitched in certain scenes. He sounded like a genuine psychopath like Carnage from Spiderman. And those episodes with him on the lookout and his scenes with Piccolo were scary as hell. Unlike previous villains like Cell or Vegeta who were willing to wait for a good fight, Super Buu wasn't willing to fuck about which made him all the more intimidating.

The Fusion saga along with the Kid Buu saga are the reason why I prefer the Buu arc to the Cell arc.

[sunsetshimmer]

There is no such thing as "Fusion saga".

Anyway, i hate Gotenks so that's the lowest point of Buu saga.
But Vegito was cool, i like Super Buu and Ultimate Gohan despite being turned into useless trash that can't catch a stupid earring.

I still think Buu saga is the best saga in Z and miles above Cell saga.

[OhHiRenan]

Evil Boo is a boring villain and Gotenks definitely drags, but everything else in the arc is solid. My least favorite part of the Z-era is probably Vegeta’s fight against Cell. It’s not overtly long or by any means bad, but it definitely tests my patience more than anything else in the Z-era.

[sintzu]

No, not even close. I'd say the great Saiyaman part is. Personally I really liked the Super Buu part as it gave us Mystic Gohan and Vegetto, 2 of my favorite characters.

[LuckyCat]

I'm going to agree with OP. It's really that the payoffs from this section of the arc don't have any lasting importance. Gotenks is setup as a new hero but then basically just screws around. Gohan is set up as another possible hero but then gets overconfident making some really stupid mistakes (first letting Buu fight Gotenks, then dropping the potara). Vegetto is set up as the ultimate hero, but even that doesn't amount to much except maybe a little catharsis of having the heroes on the winning side for a moment.

I don't mind Super Buu as a villain. I think he works well enough being both smart and unstably violent.

I'd say the great Saiyaman part is

To be fair though, this part isn't really that long, especially in the manga, (unless you're counting Babidi's spaceship, but that's probably one of the better parts of the Buu saga so I'm guessing not).

[sintzu]

To be fair though, this part isn't really that long, especially in the manga.

I'm not counting the spaceship parts and I know it's short but if I had to pick one point in the original story to be the worst, that'd be it, despite it being short.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

If we're referring to Z Episodes #240-#277, then I have to agree that it's the low point of the entire DB story being that it's not just a few episodes. It's got some really nice individual moments here and there (Goku leaving for the afterlife and finding Gohan alive with Kaioshin, Satan befriending Boo, Gohan's parting embrace with Goku, Goku and then Vegeta being brought back in), but it's generally a lengthy stretch of "alright, what is this all about?" -- it's all plot relevant stuff but it's not really going anywhere and being more-than-the-usual absurd, imo. And around half of that, or more, is the Fusion training and all of Gotenks' antics. I have to give it to the various Super Boo's for sustaining me during that run, mostly thanks to Shioya's performance, which I'd mentioned in another thread. Oddly though, the arc still somehow works while being able to just barely hold itself together. It's all over the place.

I just went into this stretch within the last couple weeks with an open mind about it, and I'm still struggling to see what's so beloved about it by some. But, that's one of the awesome things about this series -- you could ask fifty different people what they enjoy most about the franchise, and you'll likely end up with fifty different responses.

Outside of that stretch of the Boo arc, I generally struggle with the Namek arc from around the time that Goku begins his fight with Ginyu all the way to the conclusion (way, way, way too drawn out and with crazy power leaps), the Garlic Jr. arc (not that it's bad, but six episodes could've wrapped things up), and F.Trunks VS Perfect Cell.

Stuff like Fake Namek and Bulma VS Crab blow through quick enough and aren't relevant to the plot that the option to skip over them is there. Z Episode #195 is just nonsense.

[Robo4900]

My problem is that while I think the Boo arc holds together really well for everything leading up to this, basically after Super Boo starts absorbing people, the arc loses all its steam, and doesn't get going again until Boo reverts to his pure, child form. It does ultimately come to a satisfying conclusion, but it was a bit of a mess getting from "Super Boo just made humanity extinct!" to "Goku uses the energy of everyone in the universe to vanquish Boo!", and while I think the arc is generally really great, and I love it to bits, that stretch was messy, and I would say it's the weakest part of the arc.

Still, while I haven't read the manga, so I can't comment on that, I would say it's far from the worst part of the anime; worst part of the anime(The entire original run, because restricting us to Z is silly. ) is easily that bit in the Namek/Freeza arc where the anime caught up way too close to the manga. I'm still of the opinion that this is where the show's reputation for its poor pacing comes from; I will defend every other part of the show, but that stretch is agony.

[Bullza]

If you go by the anime then yeah there's some of the filler, maybe the Goku and Frieza fight which dragged more and the Garlic Jr saga. So I was sort of talking as a combination of the manga and anime really.

The Great Saiyaman was a nice change of pace I thought. It was intense on either side with Cell and Buu so I see it as a bit of a breather.

Super Buu was alright but he didn't stand as much to me. There was no character at all like Fat Buu and he was kinda funny and I liked the stuff with Mr. Satan. Kid Buu was just a mindless and destructive monster so there hadn't really been anyone like that either.

Super Buu and especially after he absorbed the others, just seemed too much like Cell in a way.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

that bit in the Namek/Freeza arc where the anime caught up way too close to the manga. I'm still of the opinion that this is where the show's reputation for its poor pacing comes from; I will defend every other part of the show, but that stretch is agony.

From an execution standpoint, I'd have to agree with that.

Super Buu and especially after he absorbed the others, just seemed too much like Cell in a way.

I don't think that Cell would ever leap up at the prospect of attaining complete victory and begin to perform an aerial backstroke, and then go on to devour sweets from various cake shops in an act of celebration.

[Robo4900]

I don't think that Cell would ever leap up at the prospect of attaining complete victory and begin to perform an aerial backstroke, and then go on to devour sweets from various cake shops in an act of celebration.

Agreed.
Though after he started absorbing people, I think he got a lot more similar to Cell, and got a little dull.

The Great Saiyaman was a nice change of pace I thought. It was intense on either side with Cell and Buu so I see it as a bit of a breather.

Great Saiyaman isn't all filler, it was just made a lot longer through filler.
But, even though there's a lot of filler in there, it's one of my favourite breather parts of the franchise.

Super Buu was alright but he didn't stand as much to me. There was no character at all

Well, once he started absorbing people, sure... Before that, he was basically fat Boo, but evil. Which is actually quite fun; he's cocky as hell, he basically lives to just overindulge in everything(His food obsession is part of that), and ultimately despite his immense power, he's basically just a petulant child. Which is pretty distinctive.
Though I don't know how much of his character the dub traded off for more "Hardcore" nonsense

Kid Buu was just a mindless and destructive monster so there hadn't really been anyone like that either.

Well, yes. Though I would argue the mindless destructive monster is exactly the right kind of villain for that point; he's basically just an excuse for the rest of the cast to struggle and work together to fight him. Plus, there's the fat Boo vs kid Boo fight, which is fun... Kid Boo wasn't really much of a character, but he was a good force of nature villain who served his purpose, and didn't take anything away from the important character stuff that we want to see in that finalé.