Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

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Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by JazzMazz » Mon May 07, 2018 2:55 am

Wasn't sure whether to put this in the Super discussion chat, so I just ended up putting it here.

Though I feel this may be a little premature, but I think there has been enough released to at least warrant creating this thread.

With the release of promo art by the new character designer for the film, Naohiro Shintani, as well as a teaser animated by Ryo Onishi(who was apparently uncorrected), how do people feel this new art direction for the franchise holds up in comparison to the art direction of the original series, as well as Super.

Here's a basic reference.
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Final designs for Goku(plus Jacket design), Vegeta(Plus Jacket Design, Piccolo, Beerus, Whis, Freeza, Lemo, Chelye, Kikono, Broly and Paragus have dropped as well as a sticker sheet with some character sheet expressions.
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Official Movie Poster has dropped, with Goku and Vegeta blue being at the fore-front.
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Are people happy with the artistic direction the series has taken with this film and why?



[spoiler]If the mods dictate it, I would happily move this over to the Super section.[/spoiler]
Last edited by JazzMazz on Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:43 pm, edited 18 times in total.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by sintzu » Mon May 07, 2018 5:43 am

We've seen countless examples of the other styles while only a few seconds and one picture of the new one so I think it's too early to say. I'm not the biggest fan of it but like I said, it's too early to make a fair judgement. I do hope that whatever shortcomings this style has will be made up by better animation and better choreographed fights.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Michsi » Mon May 07, 2018 5:55 am

Too soon to say, especially since I think there will be some changes to Goku's face (he looks a little different in the trailer compared to the promo art which tells me they're still working on it ) but judging by style alone, I still say late DB/early Z Maeda era looks best. DBZ movie 1 and 2 are still my favorite.

Really, really curious to see how the rest of the cast will look.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by JazzMazz » Mon May 07, 2018 5:57 am

Michsi wrote:Too soon to say, especially since I think there will be some changes to Goku's face (he looks a little different in the trailer compared to the promo art which tells me they're still working on it ) but judging by style alone, I still say late DB/early Z Maeda era looks best. DBZ movie 1 and 2 are still my favorite.

Really, really curious to see how the rest of the cast will look.
Apparently the female cast will look extra cute in the film, so that's something I guess.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by sintzu » Mon May 07, 2018 5:59 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Michsi wrote:Really, really curious to see how the rest of the cast will look.
Apparently the female cast will look extra cute in the film, so that's something I guess.
I'm mostly interested in seeing how serious characters will look (Vegeta, Piccolo, UI Goku).
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Michsi » Mon May 07, 2018 6:03 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Michsi wrote:Too soon to say, especially since I think there will be some changes to Goku's face (he looks a little different in the trailer compared to the promo art which tells me they're still working on it ) but judging by style alone, I still say late DB/early Z Maeda era looks best. DBZ movie 1 and 2 are still my favorite.

Really, really curious to see how the rest of the cast will look.
Apparently the female cast will look extra cute in the film, so that's something I guess.
I don't know how to interpret that because ladies have always looked really cute with Toriyama's art style, including Yamamuro's rendition of it.
sintzu wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
Michsi wrote:Really, really curious to see how the rest of the cast will look.
Apparently the female cast will look extra cute in the film, so that's something I guess.
I'm mostly interested in seeing how serious characters will look (Vegeta, Piccolo, UI Goku).
Definetly. I'm actually kind of nervous when it comes to Piccolo and Vegeta. The wider face and further apart eyes might not look good on them at all.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by JazzMazz » Mon May 07, 2018 6:04 am

sintzu wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
Michsi wrote:Really, really curious to see how the rest of the cast will look.
Apparently the female cast will look extra cute in the film, so that's something I guess.
I'm mostly interested in seeing how serious characters will look (Vegeta, Piccolo, UI Goku).
I think everyone is.

Hopefully V-jump releases something like that.
Michsi wrote:I don't know how to interpret that because ladies have always looked really cute with Toriyama's art style, including Yamamuro's rendition of it.
I wouldn't really say they looked that cute, especially in comparison to literally every other anime ever.
Last edited by JazzMazz on Mon May 07, 2018 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Michsi » Mon May 07, 2018 6:07 am

I wouldn't really say they looked that cute, especially in comparison to literally every other anime ever.

I guess it comes down to taste, but I've always liked DB style cuteness a bit more than, say, K-on style cuteness.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by sintzu » Mon May 07, 2018 6:16 am

Michsi wrote:
I wouldn't really say they looked that cute, especially in comparison to literally every other anime ever.

I guess it comes down to taste, but I've always liked DB style cuteness a bit more than, say, K-on style cuteness.
Toriyama's female characters were never fan service kind of cute which is what I liked about them. What they didn't have in looks was made up by their character.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Michsi » Mon May 07, 2018 6:20 am

sintzu wrote:
Michsi wrote:
I wouldn't really say they looked that cute, especially in comparison to literally every other anime ever.

I guess it comes down to taste, but I've always liked DB style cuteness a bit more than, say, K-on style cuteness.
Toriyama's female characters were never fan service kind of cute which is what I liked about them. What they didn't have in looks was made up by their character.
Fan-service is a pretty broad and encompassing term, and I'm pretty sure he always meant for them to be physically appealing. Other styles may tend to got all-out when it comes to such things, but generally, I've always found DB style to be really good all around - both guys and girls look fine with it.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Vijay » Mon May 07, 2018 9:56 am

Let me be frank.

I absolutely love Yamamuro's Z works going as early as DB. His trend-setting work in Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan simply set the standard for future DBZ products & dare say arguably most influential animator

That bein said, I also find Maeda's work to be....good. May not be ground-breaking, but always had a nice touch

The recent.....OMG!!!

Goku's face, posture, muscle tone as well as proportion looks godawful & literally makes Yamamuro's design in BOG & ROF God-like

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by JazzMazz » Mon May 07, 2018 10:50 am

Vijay wrote:Let me be frank.

I absolutely love Yamamuro's Z works going as early as DB. His trend-setting work in Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan simply set the standard for future DBZ products & dare say arguably most influential animator

That bein said, I also find Maeda's work to be....good. May not be ground-breaking, but always had a nice touch

The recent.....OMG!!!

Goku's face, posture, muscle tone as well as proportion looks godawful & literally makes Yamamuro's design in BOG & ROF God-like
Well, would you care to make a comparison detailing why?

What did you think of the teaser?

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by KBABZ » Mon May 07, 2018 3:30 pm

For me I'm less impressed by the art style and more the animation quality in that short. I realize it's a movie production and all, but the animation in the preview short was GREAT and it'd be fantastic if some of that could be translated to the TV series when it returns.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Mon May 07, 2018 3:55 pm

Looking at that image, I think Shintani has managed a style that draws from Maeda's DB style and Yamamuro's Z/2008/2010 styles, keeping it Z but also showing a bit of original DB in a natural way.

I think the new artstyle is in good hands.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Robo4900 » Mon May 07, 2018 4:47 pm

The Shintani artstyle looks really nice. It's much more like Toriyama's manga drawings, or the stuff from Maeda than Yamamuro or Nakatsuru, which I think is a welcome change. Yamamuro's stuff has been pretty underwhelming since BOG, and while I like both Yamamuro and Nakatsuru, I think it's about time to bring in some new blood. The new artstyle looks a lot more dynamic and fluffy, like the old Maeda and Toriyama stuff, which I'm looking forward to seeing in action.

I always thought the Yamamuro stuff was a more hard-edged, and stiffer-looking than the other styles. Nakatsuru seemed to go with a similar look, but gave a distinctive change, which I think ended up making it look more dynamic.

My favourite is still Maeda, but I look forward to seeing what Shintani's looks like when he's actually been able to put a lot of stuff on-screen.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Vijay » Tue May 08, 2018 1:35 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Vijay wrote:Let me be frank.

I absolutely love Yamamuro's Z works going as early as DB. His trend-setting work in Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan simply set the standard for future DBZ products & dare say arguably most influential animator

That bein said, I also find Maeda's work to be....good. May not be ground-breaking, but always had a nice touch

The recent.....OMG!!!

Goku's face, posture, muscle tone as well as proportion looks godawful & literally makes Yamamuro's design in BOG & ROF God-like
Well, would you care to make a comparison detailing why?

What did you think of the teaser?
I'd appreciate more artistic emphasize on Goku's face & muscle tone. Sorry to say, but even 10 year old could portray an energetic & enthusiastic Goku with minimal effort. The teaser gave shock of my life to the point I imagined Uchiyama Masayuki came back to life teamin up with Ebisawa Yukio cuz the art & animation certainly looked like that.

As casual fan, I am not expecting glossy, glitzy animation. Just use Boo Arc/BOG/ROF design. If movements are stiff, simply loosen-up as in Frieza/Cell Arcs.

Goku in ROF looked great. Handsome, boyish yet charming.

Its just battle sequences lacked tension & coherence one associates with DB battles. Apart from that, action choreography was cool.

Goku in the latest teaser looked like lanky 16 year old teenager suffered TB for 10 years. Especially considering his total loss of muscle mass & jawline

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by OLKv3 » Tue May 08, 2018 6:34 am

Vijay wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
Vijay wrote:Let me be frank.

I absolutely love Yamamuro's Z works going as early as DB. His trend-setting work in Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan simply set the standard for future DBZ products & dare say arguably most influential animator

That bein said, I also find Maeda's work to be....good. May not be ground-breaking, but always had a nice touch

The recent.....OMG!!!

Goku's face, posture, muscle tone as well as proportion looks godawful & literally makes Yamamuro's design in BOG & ROF God-like
Well, would you care to make a comparison detailing why?

What did you think of the teaser?
I'd appreciate more artistic emphasize on Goku's face & muscle tone. Sorry to say, but even 10 year old could portray an energetic & enthusiastic Goku with minimal effort. The teaser gave shock of my life to the point I imagined Uchiyama Masayuki came back to life teamin up with Ebisawa Yukio cuz the art & animation certainly looked like that.

As casual fan, I am not expecting glossy, glitzy animation. Just use Boo Arc/BOG/ROF design. If movements are stiff, simply loosen-up as in Frieza/Cell Arcs.

Goku in ROF looked great. Handsome, boyish yet charming.

Its just battle sequences lacked tension & coherence one associates with DB battles. Apart from that, action choreography was cool.

Goku in the latest teaser looked like lanky 16 year old teenager suffered TB for 10 years. Especially considering his total loss of muscle mass & jawline
Wow, couldn't have said it better myself.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by emperior » Tue May 08, 2018 1:55 pm

Vijay wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
Vijay wrote:Let me be frank.

I absolutely love Yamamuro's Z works going as early as DB. His trend-setting work in Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan simply set the standard for future DBZ products & dare say arguably most influential animator

That bein said, I also find Maeda's work to be....good. May not be ground-breaking, but always had a nice touch

The recent.....OMG!!!

Goku's face, posture, muscle tone as well as proportion looks godawful & literally makes Yamamuro's design in BOG & ROF God-like
Well, would you care to make a comparison detailing why?

What did you think of the teaser?
I'd appreciate more artistic emphasize on Goku's face & muscle tone. Sorry to say, but even 10 year old could portray an energetic & enthusiastic Goku with minimal effort. The teaser gave shock of my life to the point I imagined Uchiyama Masayuki came back to life teamin up with Ebisawa Yukio cuz the art & animation certainly looked like that.

As casual fan, I am not expecting glossy, glitzy animation. Just use Boo Arc/BOG/ROF design. If movements are stiff, simply loosen-up as in Frieza/Cell Arcs.

Goku in ROF looked great. Handsome, boyish yet charming.

Its just battle sequences lacked tension & coherence one associates with DB battles. Apart from that, action choreography was cool.

Goku in the latest teaser looked like lanky 16 year old teenager suffered TB for 10 years. Especially considering his total loss of muscle mass & jawline
Are you guys blind or what?
First of all, Goku in the teaser doesn't look anything like it was drawn by Ebisawa or Uchiyama. Not at all. And the animation in the trailer is actually very nice.

Second, Goku's posture is perfect in Shintani's design: he is relaxed and well proportioned, while Yamamuro's design had Goku off-balance in a rigid and small body. Honestly it's not even subjective, Shintani's design as far as the body goes is realistic and anatomically accurate while Yamamuro's isn't.
You want stiff movements to loosen up? Then you need animators to ignore the designs. Naoki Tate did so in Super and he got hate by the majority of the ignorant fanbase. Animators who followed the models ended up producing stiff animation just for the sheer fact the models were stiff, so being on-model = being stiff.
As for muscle mass, that's an actual subjective taste. I personally love the less detailed muscle tone like we used to have in Maeda's work and in Toriyama's manga up to the end of Namek arc, but I can understand how some fans are used to the very detailed muscles we saw in later designs.
Surely less detailed muscles mean that animators can provide looser animation, which for me is a huge bonus.

And I'm sorry to say, but a 10 years old can't portray Goku in the way he was portrayed in the movie's teaser. You can't too. Not even with maximum effort. But feel free to try and animate a better teaser than the one Onishi animated for the movie. If a 10 years old can do with minimal effort you should too. Unless you are 9 years old, at which point I would tell you to wait 1 year before trying.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Shaddy » Tue May 08, 2018 3:09 pm

In animation, I've always preferred looser, simpler character designs with more fluid and dynamic motion for characters. It's why I love Masaaki Yuasa and Hiroyuki Imaishi, and it's why One Piece's anime is such a massive disappointment (aside from the garbage pacing). So it's needless to say that I'm biased toward Maeda and Shintani's designs over the others, but that's just what makes sense to me when it comes to a cartoon. Unless you're like JoJo, and put all your effort into making your still frames as detailed or impactful as possible (which Dragon Ball doesn't), you should always work within your limits and not add more features to a character that aren't needed.

That said, I think Yamamuro's designs get a lot more shit than they deserve. I do think they're too shiny, but when they have the production behind them that Super's lategame did, I think they more than make up for the way they can look at a standstill sometimes. But I also feel like Goku's arms are too skinny compared to his shoulder width at times, so whatever.

Thirdly, while I think Nakatsuru's Goku is mostly better than Yamamuro's (aside from the lines on his face looking a bit weird), I hate that outfit so much. GT has a massive issue with character designs for me, and that's in the color choices. They're just awful. So awful. All the time. They think mustard yellow is an acceptable color for anything ever, and that's almost completely unforgivable. All the villains also look weirdly identical, but that's not really a Goku-related issue. I also think that the Revival F outfits should have stayed forever. It was a familiar but distinct change to the look of the characters, and going back to the original outfits after the U6 tournament just felt really dumb and wrong to me.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Vijay » Wed May 09, 2018 1:23 am

emperior wrote:
Vijay wrote:
JazzMazz wrote: Well, would you care to make a comparison detailing why?

What did you think of the teaser?
I'd appreciate more artistic emphasize on Goku's face & muscle tone. Sorry to say, but even 10 year old could portray an energetic & enthusiastic Goku with minimal effort. The teaser gave shock of my life to the point I imagined Uchiyama Masayuki came back to life teamin up with Ebisawa Yukio cuz the art & animation certainly looked like that.

As casual fan, I am not expecting glossy, glitzy animation. Just use Boo Arc/BOG/ROF design. If movements are stiff, simply loosen-up as in Frieza/Cell Arcs.

Goku in ROF looked great. Handsome, boyish yet charming.

Its just battle sequences lacked tension & coherence one associates with DB battles. Apart from that, action choreography was cool.

Goku in the latest teaser looked like lanky 16 year old teenager suffered TB for 10 years. Especially considering his total loss of muscle mass & jawline
Are you guys blind or what?
First of all, Goku in the teaser doesn't look anything like it was drawn by Ebisawa or Uchiyama. Not at all. And the animation in the trailer is actually very nice.

Second, Goku's posture is perfect in Shintani's design: he is relaxed and well proportioned, while Yamamuro's design had Goku off-balance in a rigid and small body. Honestly it's not even subjective, Shintani's design as far as the body goes is realistic and anatomically accurate while Yamamuro's isn't.
You want stiff movements to loosen up? Then you need animators to ignore the designs. Naoki Tate did so in Super and he got hate by the majority of the ignorant fanbase. Animators who followed the models ended up producing stiff animation just for the sheer fact the models were stiff, so being on-model = being stiff.
As for muscle mass, that's an actual subjective taste. I personally love the less detailed muscle tone like we used to have in Maeda's work and in Toriyama's manga up to the end of Namek arc, but I can understand how some fans are used to the very detailed muscles we saw in later designs.
Surely less detailed muscles mean that animators can provide looser animation, which for me is a huge bonus.

And I'm sorry to say, but a 10 years old can't portray Goku in the way he was portrayed in the movie's teaser. You can't too. Not even with maximum effort. But feel free to try and animate a better teaser than the one Onishi animated for the movie. If a 10 years old can do with minimal effort you should too. Unless you are 9 years old, at which point I would tell you to wait 1 year before trying.
Dude, no need to take this personal. You mark fluid animation, which makes you appreciate TB Goku from teaser (despite Uchiyama & Ebisawa-esque artistic detail) Whats up with your attempt to play mind-games with me using "if 10 year old could, then you should too" like wannabe Youtube keyboard warrior. Chill!

Dont give me Naoki Tate. What bout Yuya Takahashi? Or Shida? Those guys craft splendid animation with excellent artistic appeal.

If all your looking for is fluidity, then I suspect if you've even watched DBZ & its 13 films. Shimanuki Mashahiro, Hizada Kazuya, Shida, Yamamuro & several others focus on intensity of every blow without sacrificing art or details one bit. Now DATS called 1st class animation which SHOULD'VE been incorporated in the upcoming films.

Super's 30 seconds blurring fist "atatatatatata" with lack of details syndrome might have caught-up with some section of fanbase, but consider me as reasonable fanboy who takes everything with a grain of salt.

Goku is a universe-saving fighter. Not L (DN) or Chrollo (HXH). Ripping-off all of his muscle mass gives very emaciated, Christian Bale-esque physique from The Machinist. I'd understand if your talkin about 23rd TB-Saiyan Arc Goku who was still a teenager moving into fatherhood. Its post-Boo/BOG/ROF-era Goku who has faced God-like beings for christ sake...

Look at Goku's face in the teaser. Looks like Ash Ketchum waay back before he even met Pikachu.

Now, dont go calling me "retard" or "hater" just cuz I bash the art in the teaser. I merely pointed out aspects which I wish were improved or at least did not get "regressed" as far as Ash-Ketchum

My SSJ Goku & Future Trunks drawings when I was 10 as Z was on-going in my country would give Shintani a run for his money.

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