Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by emperior » Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:59 pm

KBABZ wrote:
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:That and the backgrounds from Yo-Son Goku 2008 is something I beg to come back with this or Shintani's artstyle.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
I agree. One thing I loathe about Super (and modern stuff like TFC's intros) is the use of CG textures for backgrounds and CG elements. It clashes horribly and feels very UN-Dragon Ball to me, especially if you think back to the awesome painted backgrounds that were in use since the start.
I absolutely agree too. Those gorgeous painted backgrounds are extremely fitting of Dragon Ball and I would be very pleased to see such an approach once again in an eventual new Super show.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by KBABZ » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:24 pm

emperior wrote:
KBABZ wrote:
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:That and the backgrounds from Yo-Son Goku 2008 is something I beg to come back with this or Shintani's artstyle.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
I agree. One thing I loathe about Super (and modern stuff like TFC's intros) is the use of CG textures for backgrounds and CG elements. It clashes horribly and feels very UN-Dragon Ball to me, especially if you think back to the awesome painted backgrounds that were in use since the start.
I absolutely agree too. Those gorgeous painted backgrounds are extremely fitting of Dragon Ball and I would be very pleased to see such an approach once again in an eventual new Super show.
Yeah. It's a bit better with the new Broly stuff, but Mount Paoz just isn't the same without that kind of paintwork. It feels so classical and really enhances that wuxia feel.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by TAS » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:01 pm

emperior wrote:
KBABZ wrote:
SingleFringe&Sparks wrote:That and the backgrounds from Yo-Son Goku 2008 is something I beg to come back with this or Shintani's artstyle.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
I agree. One thing I loathe about Super (and modern stuff like TFC's intros) is the use of CG textures for backgrounds and CG elements. It clashes horribly and feels very UN-Dragon Ball to me, especially if you think back to the awesome painted backgrounds that were in use since the start.
I absolutely agree too. Those gorgeous painted backgrounds are extremely fitting of Dragon Ball and I would be very pleased to see such an approach once again in an eventual new Super show.
If/when there's a new show I would love to see something akin to the look of this new movie. Obviously, I know it can't be the same level of quality as the movie but I feel like it's time for DB to move past the Super style & onto it's next evolution whether that's character design, color palate, or whatever.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Shaddy » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:21 am

Obviously it won't have the same level of movement, but the art and general loose and organic feel would definitely persist, so there would still be more movement.

If Toei brought their A-game and didn't mess up the schedule, Super would have been more animated than most average anime on it's own (I'd even say it already did during the ToP). Having an even more versatile style means we could get something great even if they do mess it up.

I agree that we should have hand-drawn backgrounds again though (or well, they probably still are hand-drawn, just with a bunch of shitty gradients and low-detail). The processed and overly-clean feel needs to stop.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by jjgp1112 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:52 pm

The Goku reference just needs one last little update :wink:

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Shaddy » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:00 am

.....and what would that be?
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by KBABZ » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:39 am

Shaddy wrote:.....and what would that be?
It's transparent, maybe?

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Shaddy » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:10 pm

Huh, nope. I just opened it in a new tab, and besides already being transparent, it's the same image as the one from the site.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:27 pm

Shaddy wrote:Huh, nope. I just opened it in a new tab, and besides already being transparent, it's the same image as the one from the site.
Higher quality/accurate color palette.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Shaddy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:07 am

Well, I mean the way you phrased it I thought you had done something to change the image to improve it in your eyes or whatever. Why did you trail off like that?
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by GT_Goten10 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:57 pm

Tadayoshi Yamamuro ....wow

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Shaddy » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:44 pm

Edit: on closer inspection, yeah, these don't look that great. Look at how rigid Gohan's stance is there.
Last edited by Shaddy on Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by KBABZ » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:02 pm

I can kinda see his late-game stiffness starting to appear, personally. Compare Gohan's hair to how Toriyama did it, the spikes feel quite stubby:

Image

Still some great artwork though, Frieza in particular looks incredible.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:27 pm

GT Gohan with a bang??
Take my money!
Yamamuro must have thought it looked better like that or he was too used to drawing Buu Arc Gohan.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Attitudefan » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:44 pm

That picture is a great example of the big chins and no jaw line Yamamuro loved to do. I am not a fan. Shiny skin and stubby stiff hair are all there, way back in 1995-1996.

Edit:

I have compiled the differences on how they drew the faces from a low angle shot. Buu era and beyond bubble the face out and nearly remove the whole jawline. It also squished the facial features together while elongating the chin. The Maeda era (drawn by different artists no less) have a much more fleshed out face at that angle, where the proportions of the face are NOT lost once positioned at that perspective.

Maeda Era:
[spoiler]Image

Image[/spoiler]
Yamamuro Era:
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]


Comparison:
Image

Even though this comparison above is between Last House and I believe Toei's staff, it does show that the character designs differ greatly. Yamamuro's designs have the face round out like a sphere despite human faces not being that round. Even though the Maeda era here is represented by Last House--usually having poor art direction--has the facial proportions less squished together and having a correct perspective. Plus, the face is more elongated and a tad flatter, more like human faces actually are: the brow ridge, cheek, chin, and jaw line are more prominent in the Last House drawing. Yamamuro's designs lack any skull feature and is essentially a bubble.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by KBABZ » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:33 pm

Attitudefan wrote:Even though this comparison above is between Last House and I believe Toei's staff, it does show that the character designs differ greatly. Yamamuro's designs have the face round out like a sphere despite human faces not being that round. Even though the Maeda era here is represented by Last House--usually having poor art direction--has the facial proportions less squished together and having a correct perspective. Plus, the face is more elongated and a tad flatter, more like human faces actually are: the brow ridge, cheek, chin, and jaw line are more prominent in the Last House drawing. Yamamuro's designs lack any skull feature and is essentially a bubble.
I dunno, personally I would argue that our faces are quite bubble-shaped and so the second one is more anatomically appropriate. But there's no denying the classical feel of the first one.

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Shaddy » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:15 pm

Isn't that Vegeta Nakatsuru's, anyway? I don't remember what Yammy designs were reused for Buu and which ones weren't.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by GT_Goten10 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:19 pm

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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:43 pm

TAS wrote:
emperior wrote:
KBABZ wrote: I agree. One thing I loathe about Super (and modern stuff like TFC's intros) is the use of CG textures for backgrounds and CG elements. It clashes horribly and feels very UN-Dragon Ball to me, especially if you think back to the awesome painted backgrounds that were in use since the start.
I absolutely agree too. Those gorgeous painted backgrounds are extremely fitting of Dragon Ball and I would be very pleased to see such an approach once again in an eventual new Super show.
If/when there's a new show I would love to see something akin to the look of this new movie. Obviously, I know it can't be the same level of quality as the movie but I feel like it's time for DB to move past the Super style & onto it's next evolution whether that's character design, color palate, or whatever.
I just think the more bubbly cartoony look of the characters on the Shintani sheets, along with Toriyama's modern artstyle, on those 2008 special backgrounds particularly, combined together (as to Yo-Son Goku still using the older character designs), it would definitely result in something that I think would give a much more whimsical, light-hearted look that we seem to associate DB/Toriyama with. I just don't think Modern DB really carries the aesthetic atmosphere anymore that I feel like both Shintani's sheets on those backgrounds could create.
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Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Metalwario64 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:39 pm

Attitudefan wrote:Even though this comparison above is between Last House and I believe Toei's staff, it does show that the character designs differ greatly.
That's Studio Live, not Last House. It reeks of Yukio Ebisawa with the exaggerated curves and features. I don't know if it's his drawing or a correction he made though. It seems a bit too good to be an Ebisawa drawing, and it doesn't looks good enough to be Kanno.

Also, whoever animated the Buu arc shot was a bit off model, because while your points still basically stand, that artists style was even rounder and more bubbly than Yamamuro's was at the time (though his stuff started looking like that in GT).

Speaking of Maeda, I just discovered while watching Discotek's release of the Street Fighter II Movie that he was an animation supervisor on that, as well as in II V.
Shaddy wrote:Edit: on closer inspection, yeah, these don't look that great. Look at how rigid Gohan's stance is there.
Yeah, and his arms are way too short. Plus, all of the face shading is the current day style that lacks the indent in the cheek area, which I will never understand why Yamamuro started doing that.
Last edited by Metalwario64 on Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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