Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

Vijay
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1284
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:48 am

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Vijay » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:40 pm

GT_Goten10 wrote:Tadayoshi Yamamuro ....wow

Image
Good times~

When beautiful artwork meets nostalgia

I'm not the kinda guy criticize balance or weight or stature of some....some....drawings that flashes over 5 seconds in ED

How GT missed the opportunity to produce such high-quality animation & artwork is evident simply by lookin at these drawings.

I dont deny there were some good episodes: Ep 19: Base Goku vs Rildo, Ep 34, Ep 44, Ep 48, Ep 61, Ep 63, Ep 64

But lookin at SSJ4 Goku with Baby gives a very....classic feel lol. Maybe cuz its Yamamuro's artwork. Sad how we'll never get back to these era of artistic pristine

User avatar
GT_Goten10
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by GT_Goten10 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:10 pm

Vijay wrote:
GT_Goten10 wrote:Tadayoshi Yamamuro ....wow

Image
Good times~

When beautiful artwork meets nostalgia

I'm not the kinda guy criticize balance or weight or stature of some....some....drawings that flashes over 5 seconds in ED

How GT missed the opportunity to produce such high-quality animation & artwork is evident simply by lookin at these drawings.

I dont deny there were some good episodes: Ep 19: Base Goku vs Rildo, Ep 34, Ep 44, Ep 48, Ep 61, Ep 63, Ep 64

But lookin at SSJ4 Goku with Baby gives a very....classic feel lol. Maybe cuz its Yamamuro's artwork. Sad how we'll never get back to these era of artistic pristine
Don’t forget Ep 35&15
GT Fighter

User avatar
SingleFringe&Sparks
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1642
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:55 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu/East District

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:55 pm

TAS wrote: If/when there's a new show I would love to see something akin to the look of this new movie. Obviously, I know it can't be the same level of quality as the movie but I feel like it's time for DB to move past the Super style & onto it's next evolution whether that's character design, color palate, or whatever.
The movie quality doesnt seem too out of reach for a TV series, considering there are a lot of anime that aren't Toei that look as good on their own. If they just had better production scheduling and broke up the arcs as seasons, they'd have less to rush. DB's issue seems to be a basic one to me but a crippling one for them and its just characters staying on model. We can get a good quality series, if they emphasize the new designs to make the series look new. I just wish the movie was a bit tighter with model consistency.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

User avatar
LordCrumb
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:33 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by LordCrumb » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:33 pm

GT_Goten10 wrote:Tadayoshi Yamamuro ....wow

Image
My god, just look at that art. Beautiful.

Now we get this for the next film :sick: ;

Image

It took me long enough to get used to the new Super character designs, but this change is way to much.

User avatar
Shaddy
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Shaddy » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:17 pm

But the new movie's character designs are closer to the old ones from Z than modern Yamamuro ever was.
Mage of Blood yeets pizza wrote:Satanism is just Atheism wearing a funny hat
bjm knhhjnbguv cxkjmn bl,v wrote:Go yiff yourself

User avatar
KBABZ
I Live Here
Posts: 4745
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by KBABZ » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:18 am

LordCrumb wrote:
GT_Goten10 wrote:Tadayoshi Yamamuro ....wow

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
My god, just look at that art. Beautiful.

Now we get this for the next film :sick: ;

Image

It took me long enough to get used to the new Super character designs, but this change is way to much.
The difference between the two is that the GT pieces are still frame and are effectively pieces of promo art, so they can afford to be drawn like that with better shading and stuff. The Super Broly shot is in the middle of actual animation so the lighting has to be much simpler. Compare the amount of shading on Goku's arms in the SS4 shot of the collage to the Super Broly shot and the GT one here:

Image

User avatar
JazzMazz
I Live Here
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:28 am
Location: Mordor, the Borg cube and Voldemort's lair all at the same time in the year 199X

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by JazzMazz » Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:59 am

KBABZ wrote:
LordCrumb wrote:
GT_Goten10 wrote:Tadayoshi Yamamuro ....wow

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
My god, just look at that art. Beautiful.

Now we get this for the next film :sick: ;

Image

It took me long enough to get used to the new Super character designs, but this change is way to much.
The difference between the two is that the GT pieces are still frame and are effectively pieces of promo art, so they can afford to be drawn like that with better shading and stuff. The Super Broly shot is in the middle of actual animation so the lighting has to be much simpler. Compare the amount of shading on Goku's arms in the SS4 shot of the collage to the Super Broly shot and the GT one here:

Image
Yeah, that's definitely a good distinction to make. One is lifeless still shots, while one is taken from the end of an actually animated movement, and is a shot from a distance.

Not to mention, there really isn't anything inherently wrong with having less shading and detail in artwork, just as having more detail doesn't make something better(something which that GT art from the original post perfectly demonstrates).

That GT art I feel perfectly showcases Yamamuro's art in his transition from his older style to the more modern one which his now known for.

EDIT: Also, here are all the high quality versions we've gotten of the character sheets thus far(updated in OP)
[spoiler]Goku
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Vegeta
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Freeza
Image
BROLY!
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Piccolo
Image
Beerus
Image
Whis
Image
Kikono
Image
Freeza attendant
Image
Chelye
Image
Lemo
Image
Bug things
Image[/spoiler]
Shintani also revealed some interesting stuff about how shading was going to be applied in the film in the translated interview.
What aspects of the action scenes were you most particular about?
The everyday life scenes don’t have very much shading, but when the movie ramps up into battle mode the shading increases and the muscles pop out more clearly, providing greater contrast that makes for a cool impression. Using the same shading throughout would weaken the impact of the parts we want to show off most, so we wanted the visuals themselves to clearly say “it’s time for battle!” No one would be satisfied watching Dragon Ball without cool action scenes, so we have animators who are particularly skilled at action sequences working on those parts. I’m always thinking “that’s so cool” when I check their work (laughs). There are a lot of everyday life scenes as well, so I draw those carefully to make sure the characterizations come through, but for the action scenes I tell them, “do it however you like.” I also ensure that Toriyama’s gags are properly portrayed. I sure hope everyone gets some laughs (laughs).
What do people think of this artistic choice?

Personally, I think its a good idea, as it allows for nice and obvious changes in atmosphere, while also giving each scene some individuality in its own right. Think this seems like it could definitely help with varying up the film visually and tonally, which makes me think of how the gag scenes in movie 12 of Z was drawn in a thick art line style which gave them their own sense of character.

User avatar
KBABZ
I Live Here
Posts: 4745
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by KBABZ » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:35 am

JazzMazz wrote:Yeah, that's definitely a good distinction to make. One is lifeless still shots, while one is taken from the end of an actually animated movement, and is a shot from a distance.
Yeah exactly; I've ranted before on in-between frames, but that aside I'd much rather have a looser and more expressive art style than a rigid one, because when a character is off-model it's much more obvious in a rigid art style, as Super has proven.
JazzMazz wrote:Not to mention, there really isn't anything inherently wrong with having less shading and detail in artwork, just as having more detail doesn't make something better(something which that GT art from the original post perfectly demonstrates).
Yes, and in the anime industry especially have less detail to do in the linework and whatnot means you can make more in less amount of time, which benefits everybody. Not to mention it's easier on the eyes to keep track of movements on body parts.
JazzMazz wrote:Shintani also revealed some interesting stuff about how shading was going to be applied in the film in the translated interview.
What aspects of the action scenes were you most particular about?
The everyday life scenes don’t have very much shading, but when the movie ramps up into battle mode the shading increases and the muscles pop out more clearly, providing greater contrast that makes for a cool impression. Using the same shading throughout would weaken the impact of the parts we want to show off most, so we wanted the visuals themselves to clearly say “it’s time for battle!” No one would be satisfied watching Dragon Ball without cool action scenes, so we have animators who are particularly skilled at action sequences working on those parts. I’m always thinking “that’s so cool” when I check their work (laughs). There are a lot of everyday life scenes as well, so I draw those carefully to make sure the characterizations come through, but for the action scenes I tell them, “do it however you like.” I also ensure that Toriyama’s gags are properly portrayed. I sure hope everyone gets some laughs (laughs).
What do people think of this artistic choice?
I think it's good too. Funnily enough I always felt that the series kinda already did this regarding lighting changes when someone goes Super Saiyan, turning from something more natural to being dark facing the camera and light around the edges, like the aura is lighting up the body and screwing with the camera's exposure, in addition to lightening the shades of blue and orange on Goku's gi. This is also probably why when Goku and Gohan use Super Saiyan as their natural resting state in the Cell Games that it looks a bit odd: the lighting is normal, the gi is the deeper reddish-orange, and the hair is a lighter shade of yellow than normal.
That in mind, it's interesting that Shintani's model sheets don't have the normal Super Saiyan lighting changes on any version of Super Saiyan.

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6134
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Ajay » Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:18 pm

Posts do not magically vanish. If they are removed, it's because they were wildly off-topic. Please do not repost them.
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.

Deadtuber.

Ssjcell
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:15 pm

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Ssjcell » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:02 pm

The new art style looks too much like a video game imo.

User avatar
JohnnyCashKami
Temporarily Banned
Posts: 1597
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:16 pm

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:27 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:"SUPER WITH Z COLORS"
I actually searched on YouTube for this and it's kind of a thing.. There are people who like Dragon Ball Super with, as you say, "SUPER WITH Z COLORS", the worst part is that every single of those vids that I had seen were absolute shit which made it unwatchable for me.

Funny how fans who try to improve something they love, end up on fucking it up even more. Not so funny now, but I digress.
Ssjcell wrote:The new art style looks too much like a video game imo.
Can see your point, DB Super Movie 1 looks similar to FighterZ but its artstyle to me looks absolutely beautiful.

User avatar
Shaddy
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Shaddy » Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:00 pm

The CG looks like FighterZ with some rough line filtering on it, the hand-drawn stuff doesn't at all though. It's way too loose and way too 2D. I'm not sure you could physically produce something like it with 3D models.
Mage of Blood yeets pizza wrote:Satanism is just Atheism wearing a funny hat
bjm knhhjnbguv cxkjmn bl,v wrote:Go yiff yourself

User avatar
KBABZ
I Live Here
Posts: 4745
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by KBABZ » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:52 am

Shaddy wrote:The CG looks like FighterZ with some rough line filtering on it, the hand-drawn stuff doesn't at all though. It's way too loose and way too 2D. I'm not sure you could physically produce something like it with 3D models.
You could but it would require like 300% more work than what FighterZ has with all of the Shintani deformation of the models, not to mention trying to get the lighting and shading to work with them!

User avatar
Xeztin
I Live Here
Posts: 2241
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:15 pm
Location: Toyotarō's Place

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Xeztin » Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:53 pm

What are they going to do with the anime? Call it Super II and inject the new art style from the movie and continue on? I doubt they would continue from the last episode with the new style?

User avatar
majinwarman
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1698
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:50 pm
Location: Freeza Planet 1

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by majinwarman » Tue Sep 04, 2018 11:23 am

Xeztin wrote:What are they going to do with the anime? Call it Super II and inject the new art style from the movie and continue on? I doubt they would continue from the last episode with the new style?
Many anime have continue on regardless of different character designs.
Majinwarman
So I'm 'evil', huh? Interesting."
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

User avatar
GT_Goten10
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by GT_Goten10 » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:25 am

Nakatsuru
Image

Image
GT Fighter

User avatar
Shaddy
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1202
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Shaddy » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:07 pm

Man when are those from? They have a lot more unfortunate Yamamuro-isms than I usually remember from Nakatsuru (along with his trademark giant chins). Those highlights on the SSJ4 hair are...oof.
Mage of Blood yeets pizza wrote:Satanism is just Atheism wearing a funny hat
bjm knhhjnbguv cxkjmn bl,v wrote:Go yiff yourself

User avatar
Attitudefan
I Live Here
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:51 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by Attitudefan » Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:14 pm

Shaddy wrote:Man when are those from? They have a lot more unfortunate Yamamuro-isms than I usually remember from Nakatsuru (along with his trademark giant chins). Those highlights on the SSJ4 hair are...oof.
Yeah I am not a fan either. The giant chins and noses... I don't know why the later designs have such a problem with making the chin in proportion at angles: it's like the chin was never foreshortened and instead look distended. Plus the eyes look so weird. And the Super Saiyan Goku has his eyes so far apart (although, compared to his nose and mouth are actually more in-tune to real life proportions but looks so off with this style).
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

User avatar
GT_Goten10
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:46 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by GT_Goten10 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:40 pm

Just wow
Image
GT Fighter

User avatar
JazzMazz
I Live Here
Posts: 2216
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:28 am
Location: Mordor, the Borg cube and Voldemort's lair all at the same time in the year 199X

Re: Old artstyle vs New Artstyle 2.0

Post by JazzMazz » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:50 pm

So the new trailer just dropped, and we got a sneak peek a series of takes on the new aesthetic.

What do people think of the art direction taken in the trailer?

Personally, I quite liked it on a whole, though I think it was the great use of lighting to create tone and atmosphere that most stuck out to me in the trailer, as well as the new colourings for characters like Freeza.

Post Reply