"Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

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Kokonoe
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"Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Kokonoe » Wed May 09, 2018 9:33 pm

So this is a common fan theory because as a kid he is very wild and violent and doesn't really listen to anyone until he hits his head and thus his personality is changed. There are a few reasons why I don't think this matters.

-He eats Senzu beans throughout the entire show which are shown to heal just about anything.
-He gets wished back via the Dragon Balls and thus being healed.
-He is healed via Frieza's pod.

Now for the sake of discussion I went ahead and thought of a counterpoint to this argument in that Senzu beans couldn't save Goku from his heart disease. That said, I don't think that matters because a disease is very much different than physical brain damage and regardless, the Dragon Balls wishing him back would heal everything.

Now onto the main point.

There is nothing in this series that ever hints that he suffered brain damage, nor is it ever mentioned later on. No one makes any little side comments, Bulma nor the other intelligent characters have diagnosed him with anything of this sort and I find that if he really did have permanent brain damage some how, they would actually bring it up a few times.

So what do I think happened to Goku as a kid if he's not brain damaged? Well...what I believe happened is that similar to how a kid can be scared straight by an accident happening and changing their ways, the same thing occurred with Goku. He was a rambunctious child that never felt threatened, but when he hit his head that all changed and he finally realized that he could've died and gained a different outlook which calmed him down.

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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Banana » Wed May 09, 2018 10:31 pm

Guess we will agree to disagree on this one. I know it was a pretty hard hit to his head and felt it was implied that he had brain damage. Goku does not act like a typical Universe 7 saiyan. We see Bardock, Raditz, Vegeta, and Nappa, and despite Vegeta's issues, he still is rather normal compared to Goku. Goku's personality completely changed after the accident. It affected him on a very deep level.

Goku's sense of social skills tend to also be equally affected by this event, and also the fact that he didnt know anyone until he met Bulma since Grandpa Gohan was long gone.

Senzu have no relevance to this. Senzu are purely a physical healing item. The injuries Goku sustained would be long naturally healed before Goku had his first senzu, just like if someone left a broken bone to heal.

Dont get me wrong, I adore Goku to death, but he isnt the brightest crayon in the box. Especially after those filler super episodes that he is acting all strange and makes Gohan worry. I almost rage quit the show because of how much it infuriated me. (I don't want to spoil for those who haven't seen it and for those who have, I'm referencing what happens between Future Trunks arc and the start of the tournament of power. )
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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Kokonoe » Thu May 10, 2018 12:27 am

Banana wrote:Guess we will agree to disagree on this one. I know it was a pretty hard hit to his head and felt it was implied that he had brain damage. Goku does not act like a typical Universe 7 saiyan. We see Bardock, Raditz, Vegeta, and Nappa, and despite Vegeta's issues, he still is rather normal compared to Goku. Goku's personality completely changed after the accident. It affected him on a very deep level.

Goku's sense of social skills tend to also be equally affected by this event, and also the fact that he didnt know anyone until he met Bulma since Grandpa Gohan was long gone.

Senzu have no relevance to this. Senzu are purely a physical healing item. The injuries Goku sustained would be long naturally healed before Goku had his first senzu, just like if someone left a broken bone to heal.

Dont get me wrong, I adore Goku to death, but he isnt the brightest crayon in the box. Especially after those filler super episodes that he is acting all strange and makes Gohan worry. I almost rage quit the show because of how much it infuriated me. (I don't want to spoil for those who haven't seen it and for those who have, I'm referencing what happens between Future Trunks arc and the start of the tournament of power. )
I really don't see how his social skills were altered by this event being that he never showed to be any smarter before he hit his head, as a matter of fact, he was more foolish before hitting his head and quick to anger. If anything hitting his head made him better at socializing. You also have to keep in mind he lived in the middle of nowhere with just an old man and then eventually all by his lonesome. If anyone lived that kind of lifestyle they'd be ignorant to certain social norms too. He's not dumb or lacking in brain power he's just ignorant due to the lifestyle he lived.
Last edited by Kokonoe on Thu May 10, 2018 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu May 10, 2018 12:33 am

Kokonoe wrote: Well I do want to note that the concept of Saiyans and anything story related to him wasn't even thought of until way later in the series.
Goku hitting his head was revealed at the same time as Raditz.
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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Kokonoe » Thu May 10, 2018 12:34 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Kokonoe wrote: Well I do want to note that the concept of Saiyans and anything story related to him wasn't even thought of until way later in the series.
Goku hitting his head was revealed at the same time as Raditz.
Ah ok gotcha.

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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu May 10, 2018 12:37 am

Kokonoe wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Kokonoe wrote: Well I do want to note that the concept of Saiyans and anything story related to him wasn't even thought of until way later in the series.
Goku hitting his head was revealed at the same time as Raditz.
Ah ok gotcha.
Raditz even attributes Goku's personality to brain damage. When Goku's not acting all genocide-y, Raditz demands to know if he ever hit his head. Goku's like, "yeah, it was a long time ago," and then Roshi goes on to tell how Goku's personality dramatically changed after that. It's pretty clear that Raditz thinks Goku has brain damage, and Roshi's story is there to back it up. There's no reason for the narrative to lie to us here.
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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Kokonoe » Thu May 10, 2018 12:51 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Kokonoe wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote: Goku hitting his head was revealed at the same time as Raditz.
Ah ok gotcha.
Raditz even attributes Goku's personality to brain damage. When Goku's not acting all genocide-y, Raditz demands to know if he ever hit his head. Goku's like, "yeah, it was a long time ago," and then Roshi goes on to tell how Goku's personality dramatically changed after that. It's pretty clear that Raditz thinks Goku has brain damage, and Roshi's story is there to back it up. There's no reason for the narrative to lie to us here.
I opened up and reread the Raditz chapter and he makes no mention of brain damage, he asks Goku if he hit his head. Hitting your head and getting memory loss is not what I'd consider "brain damage" in the sense people are referring to here. When people refer to brain damage in this context they are saying that because he hit his head, he is slow or more dumb than a typical person.

I mean, think about it like this, Vegeta stopped being all genocide-y as time went on interacting with humans and redeemed himself so in that same regard a significant event such as what happened to Goku as a kid I can imagine doing the same.

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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by mute_proxy » Thu May 10, 2018 12:55 am

Complete change in character after trauma to the head usually indicates brain damage, not change of heart.

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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Kokonoe » Thu May 10, 2018 12:57 am

mute_proxy wrote:Complete change in character after trauma to the head usually indicates brain damage, not change of heart.
But this is a very young child at the same time. I also don't see any evidence that he was any smarter or more capable before hitting his head.

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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Pantalones » Thu May 10, 2018 12:57 am

-He eats Senzu beans throughout the entire show which are shown to heal just about anything.
Yamcha's scars don't go away when he eats a Senzu Bean. So the beans don't restore your body to "like new" status without exception; they restore your energy and heal any open wounds that haven't sealed and scarred over on their own yet, but old wounds that have become scars stay right where they are. Any brain damage Goku would've suffered from his fall would be such an old injury that Senzu could do nothing to repair it.
-He gets wished back via the Dragon Balls and thus being healed.
Again, scarred characters don't have their scars removed when revived. And an even bigger example -- Freeza was revived not only with his partially-robotic body rather than his original fully-organic one, but still in pieces. The dragon likely wouldn't undo any brain damage Goku suffered unless specifically asked to do so.
-He is healed via Frieza's pod.
This is the only one that might make the brain-damage idea questionable. And even then, we don't know exactly how the healing pods work; maybe they don't heal brain injuries for whatever reason (maybe it would work if a chunk of the brain was actually missing Phineas Gage style, but not just if things are... a little off... thanks to a hard blow to the head?) Or maybe it's a similar situation to the Senzu Beans, where the pod could've fixed his brain if it was a recent injury, but doesn't do anything currently since his body sees his brain's current state as "normal" since he's been that way for so long now (he's spent far more of his life "brain-damaged" than not, after all.)

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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Kokonoe » Thu May 10, 2018 1:04 am

Pantalones wrote:Yamcha's scars don't go away when he eats a Senzu Bean. So the beans don't restore your body to "like new" status without exception; they restore your energy and heal any open wounds that haven't sealed and scarred over on their own yet, but old wounds that have become scars stay right where they are. Any brain damage Goku would've suffered from his fall would be such an old injury that Senzu could do nothing to repair it.

Again, scarred characters don't have their scars removed when revived. And an even bigger example -- Freeza was revived not only with his partially-robotic body rather than his original fully-organic one, but still in pieces. The dragon likely wouldn't undo any brain damage Goku suffered unless specifically asked to do so.
I'd chalk that up to more being character design, they can't remove the scar because it's part of Yamcha's appearance.

Goku was blown to smithereens via Cell and came back just the way he was before. Not only that but I'm not really gonna factor in the "reboot" movie and super related stuff here as they seem to contradict the previous canon.

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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by mute_proxy » Thu May 10, 2018 1:04 am

Kokonoe wrote:
mute_proxy wrote:Complete change in character after trauma to the head usually indicates brain damage, not change of heart.
But this is a very young child at the same time. I also don't see any evidence that he was any smarter or more capable before hitting his head.
Brain damage doesnt necessarily turn someone dumb. Some people start acting differently, seeing things differently, in good ways or bad, some even turn into pshychos, in Goku's case, he turned "normal"ish.

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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Banana » Thu May 10, 2018 1:37 am

mute_proxy wrote:
Kokonoe wrote:
mute_proxy wrote:Brain damage doesnt necessarily turn someone dumb. Some people start acting differently, seeing things differently, in good ways or bad, some even turn into pshychos, in Goku's case, he turned "normal"ish.
Well it certainly undid the Saiyajin brainwashing :lol: and you are right, there was a complete change in his demeanor. Had it not happened, Goku would have still been beating up on Grandpa Gohan and he probably would have been killed by Goku's strength in base form, accidentally or not if the oozaru transformation didn't happen.
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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Koitsukai » Thu May 10, 2018 2:10 am

It is believed that brain injury in infancy can be the cause of people developing psychopathic personalities. Most saiyajin were psychopaths, so it would make sense that Goku hitting his head would un-psycho him

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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu May 10, 2018 2:36 am

Kokonoe, you cant go agaisnt what Toriyama has stablished. This isnt a retcon.

But to be fair it could be said that Saiyan Children could have been brainwashed and the hit to the head undid said brainwashing.
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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Banana » Thu May 10, 2018 3:54 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: it could be said that Saiyan Children could have been brainwashed and the hit to the head undid said brainwashing.
Lol that's exactly what I said earlier...

About the brainwashing, I think that Goku would have been made aware that his Saiyajin name would be Kakkarotto through it all and if the accident never happened he would be aware of who he truly is without having to learn about it from Raditz.

When we meet Goku in the series he has no recollection of any of his past prior to Grandpa Gohan. I know he was a baby after all when he was sent but some do remember stuff about their birth and toddler years so instead of absolutely zero he would potentially be able to recall little bits and pieces of those years had nothing happened.

One thing is that a perfectly healthy Saiyajin may have even better memory than a human so we cannot automatically assume they know nothing. We cannot exactly hold a pure blood Saiyajin to human standards.
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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu May 10, 2018 3:58 am

Sorry! If it makes it better, I didnt read your post, so I didnt intend to steal your idea. I'm glad you think the same way.
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Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Thu May 10, 2018 1:21 pm

Kokonoe wrote:
mute_proxy wrote:Complete change in character after trauma to the head usually indicates brain damage, not change of heart.
But this is a very young child at the same time. I also don't see any evidence that he was any smarter or more capable before hitting his head.
I can see this point, he was too young to know what was good or evil so a blow to the head wouldn't have made a serious change.

I see it as him being injured and taken in by a kind old man, which endeared him to Earth.
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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by Banana » Thu May 10, 2018 3:07 pm

DragonBallFoodie wrote: I can see this point, he was too young to know what was good or evil so a blow to the head wouldn't have made a serious change.

I see it as him being injured and taken in by a kind old man, which endeared him to Earth.
That's giving him too much credit... to your thoughts, if he doesn't understand good or evil how could he be "endeared to earth"? What other injury could there be besides brain damage? Wouldn't that require some sort of understanding on his part? It was a drastic change in goku's personality and who he was. One day he was an aggressive turd then boom he hits his head and he is kind and lovable after...

I know this is the explanation that Goku really is brain damaged. And that's okay I still love him anyway.
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Re: "Goku has brain damage" is not something I agree with

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Thu May 10, 2018 3:37 pm

Banana wrote:That's giving him too much credit... to your thoughts, if he doesn't understand good or evil how could he be "endeared to earth"?
It's not that difficult to understand. When Kal-El of Krypton crashed on Earth he was raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent, who taught him to respect life and to use his powers to help people. So he was endeared to Earth.

It's the same thing in Goku's case with Grandfather Gohan, with the difference being that he accidentally killed his grandfather and had his raising being cut short, which rendered him rather feral.

Contrast with Vegeta, who was raised with kingship, domination and strength in mind by his father, and then ended up as a minion to Freeza, which made him go down a dark path. While he is now free of Freeza, his father's raising is still marked on him with his arrogance and Saiyan supremacy.
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