Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:25 am
Well, yeah, the existence of any god--especially one like the Zen-ou--is offensive to the sensibilities of mortals. Nobody should have that kind of power over someone.
For me, it's more the fact that Zeno is so childish and trigger happy with his abilities. I'm surprised so many universes have even survived this long.
If he was wise, compassionate, and extremely hesitant to actually use that power on the scale of a whole universe, it would be a lot more acceptable.
Hearts is right which I find funny. Extreme methods aside I honestly agree with his view haha.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:25 am
Well, yeah, the existence of any god--especially one like the Zen-ou--is offensive to the sensibilities of mortals. Nobody should have that kind of power over someone.
For me, it's more the fact that Zeno is so childish and trigger happy with his abilities. I'm surprised so many universes have even survived this long.
If he was wise, compassionate, and extremely hesitant to actually use that power on the scale of a whole universe, it would be a lot more acceptable.
There's nobody to hold him accountable, though. A tyrant is a tyrant, whether head causes suffering or not.
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:25 am
Well, yeah, the existence of any god--especially one like the Zen-ou--is offensive to the sensibilities of mortals. Nobody should have that kind of power over someone.
For me, it's more the fact that Zeno is so childish and trigger happy with his abilities. I'm surprised so many universes have even survived this long.
If he was wise, compassionate, and extremely hesitant to actually use that power on the scale of a whole universe, it would be a lot more acceptable.
There's nobody to hold him accountable, though. A tyrant is a tyrant, whether head causes suffering or not.
Well there is the other him. If only he wasn't just as childish and trigger happy.
EDIT: I guess that's why Marvel's Living Tribunal does a good job... he can't act unless all 3 of his faces agree.
Koitsukai wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:07 amIf they didn't put so much charging up and stares in episode 18, they could've had all this crappy little fight that spanned unnecessarily for two episodes in just one.
dbzfan7 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:42 pm
Hearts is right which I find funny. Extreme methods aside I honestly agree with his view haha.
Yeah but his plan had no sense. You love mortals? What's the point of attacking them? Why didn'te he head to Zeno right away?
He had to gather enough energy first, and that required taking it from mortals, I guess.
I did say extreme methods hah. I think you can be right, but go about your viewpoint wrong.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I've watched the new episode and I was heartbroken when I saw Hearts' death. His intentions were "good", even though it wasn't the best way to do it. He really reminds me of Zamasu. Actually, for me, it is Zamasu in a human version. I can't wait for the special episode too !
Scientist Fu wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:16 am
I've watched the new episode and I was heartbroken when I saw Hearts' death. His intentions were "good", even though it wasn't the best way to do it. He really reminds me of Zamasu. Actually, for me, it is Zamasu in a human version. I can't wait for the special episode too !
He is like Zamasu. He has good intentions but his methods are extreme. It's funny how these two are so similar when they basically want the opposite. I suppose that's what makes their relationship entertaining to watch, you're always wondering who's going to betray who first, because it's clear these two people don't really trust each other when one wants to destroy all mortals and the other wants to free all mortals.
It's amazing how this could take so many cool, hype ideas and waste them. Gogeta, Jiren and Hit teaming up to take on a multiverse-threatening enemy is the latest in a long line. Also, Hit shouldn't be doing beam struggles. If they had any imagination, Gogeta and Jiren would be taking the blast from the front while Hit phases in behind Hearts to smack him in the balls with a pool cue. Not literally of course, but that would have been fun...
Hearts' genuinely good final speech was wasted on this. Also, Jiren asking Gogeta why they didn't fuse against him could have been set up for a decent gag, instead we just got the standard Vegeta line. You should be over this by now, modern Vegeta. You boring, stale character.
JulieYBM wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:25 am
Well, yeah, the existence of any god--especially one like the Zen-ou--is offensive to the sensibilities of mortals. Nobody should have that kind of power over someone.
For me, it's more the fact that Zeno is so childish and trigger happy with his abilities. I'm surprised so many universes have even survived this long.
If he was wise, compassionate, and extremely hesitant to actually use that power on the scale of a whole universe, it would be a lot more acceptable.
I agree. The Olympin gods are similar.
"We became like friends, we became like good friends." Broly to Cheelai and Lemo about his fur pelt.
So how was Hearts able to erase Fused Zamasu again? I get that he became very powerful, but that alone shouldn't be enough to erase an immortal being. Especially since Fused Zamasu already survived Zeno's Erase technique thanks to Fu's intervention.
SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:44 am
So how was Hearts able to erase Fused Zamasu again? I get that he became very powerful, but that alone shouldn't be enough to erase an immortal being. Especially since Fused Zamasu already survived Zeno's Erase technique thanks to Fu's intervention.
I thought he didn't 'erase' him, but rather converted him into energy and absorbed him. So Zamasu is probably still drifting around as disembodied energy somewhere after Hearts died.
Kataphrut wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:15 am
It's amazing how this could take so many cool, hype ideas and waste them. Gogeta, Jiren and Hit teaming up to take on a multiverse-threatening enemy is the latest in a long line. Also, Hit shouldn't be doing beam struggles. If they had any imagination, Gogeta and Jiren would be taking the blast from the front while Hit phases in behind Hearts to smack him in the balls with a pool cue. Not literally of course, but that would have been fun...
Hearts' genuinely good final speech was wasted on this. Also, Jiren asking Gogeta why they didn't fuse against him could have been set up for a decent gag, instead we just got the standard Vegeta line. You should be over this by now, modern Vegeta. You boring, stale character.
Yeah, like when did Hit become that strong to be useful in a Jiren and Gogeta Blue beam struggle? he was below SSB level during the U6 arc, and didn't seem to surpass that level at the ToP, and did nothing special in SDBH. Aside from clever strategies like you just proposed there is really nothing he could bring to the table at this level.
Hakaishin Toppo, SS2 Kefla, Golden Metal Cooler(what the hell happened to him?), even bringing in Broly would've been a much more logical and interesting thing to try. Perhaps even Cumber betraying Hearts would've been more refreshing. I'll go overboard and call for Beerus. Jiren, Gogeta and Beerus.
Luckily, this mediocre anime does not reflect how the game is, which I've been hearing is really cool.
