Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
ZeroNeonix wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:59 pm
I know people like to defecate on Super, but it had a lot of really good moments. It could have been better, but it wasn't awful, especially after you endure (or skip) the recreations of the BoG and RoF stories.
I fully agree. I enjoyed Super very much even with its animation hiccups.
I also really like Super, warts and all.
If Super wants to make another comeback, I would advise it takes its time.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
ZeroNeonix wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:59 pmit wasn't awful, especially after you endure (or skip) the recreations of the BoG and RoF stories.
After enduring (or skipping) terrible retellings, people will have to endure (or better yet, skip too) two tournaments almost simultaneously.
That would be your problem, thinking everyone would follow your personal definition of tournaments as inherently evil voids where no storytelling happens and everything is "not new".
Which is a bit of a fucking stretch, to say the absolute least. Most people judge things based on...y'know, whether they're good.
sunsetshimmer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:39 am
Also they actually managed to make transformation into SSJB look COOL for the very first time. Especially if you compare it to lame debut this form had in RoF movie/arc.
You weren't a fan of how Goku went SSB in Broly?
Nope. Extreme amount of random colors ruined it. I didn't like effects in this movie at all.
ZeroNeonix wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:59 pmit wasn't awful, especially after you endure (or skip) the recreations of the BoG and RoF stories.
After enduring (or skipping) terrible retellings, people will have to endure (or better yet, skip too) two tournaments almost simultaneously.
I liked the Universal Tournament, and I liked the Tournament of Power. It's just that they did them both so close together that was the problem. Even then, the ToP did feel like it was increasing the stakes, even if we already had a pretty good idea how it would end. The idea of the thing being a test from the Omnikings felt a bit cheap, though. If Super were a bit longer, with more new stories under its belt, it wouldn't really be much of an issue. It's not like the original Dragon Ball didn't have several tournament arcs. How many was it? Four? Yet nobody complains about that.
sunsetshimmer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:39 am
Also they actually managed to make transformation into SSJB look COOL for the very first time. Especially if you compare it to lame debut this form had in RoF movie/arc.
You weren't a fan of how Goku went SSB in Broly?
Nope. Extreme amount of random colors ruined it. I didn't like effects in this movie at all.
While I think Super Broly looked great in general, the random colors that flashed when Goku and Vegeta transformed was a little weird to me. That never happened before. While the white could possibly be interpreted as Goku attempting to reach Ultra Instinct and being unable to, the green didn't make sense.
Nope. Extreme amount of random colors ruined it. I didn't like effects in this movie at all.
While I think Super Broly looked great in general, the random colors that flashed when Goku and Vegeta transformed was a little weird to me. That never happened before. While the white could possibly be interpreted as Goku attempting to reach Ultra Instinct and being unable to, the green didn't make sense.
I'm pretty sure it was an artistic decision to make usually straight forward and stagnant transformation sequences feel like an actual change, with physical stress on the user. Its not exactly unheard of either, Fusion Reborn did something similar with the super Saiyan 3 transformation.
Best episode by FAR. Sure they reused some bits from Super but it worked really well. Also this was by far the Best SS Blue transformation next to Goku doing it the Broly movie, it actually FELT powerful.
It's not too late. One day, it will be.
Peace And Power MF DOOM!
Peace and Power Kevin Samuels
ZeroNeonix wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 pmIt's just that they did them both so close together that was the problem.
That is correct. Make tournaments if you want, but only after a couple of sagas with a proper story and such. Tournaments should be once in a while, not every freaking time. Tying a tournament with a plot wouldn't hurt, by the way. And Tournament of Power had the potential for that...
ZeroNeonix wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:03 pmIt's not like the original Dragon Ball didn't have several tournament arcs. How many was it? Four? Yet nobody complains about that.
Dragon Ball wasn't released in the 21st century, year 2015, modern times. And to top things off, Dragon Ball had three tournaments for three sagas with something going on. It was "kinda" balanced. There were Pilaf saga, Red Ribbon saga and Piccolo Daimaoh saga.
• We help! ... Hmm. Always get Autobots out of messes they get into. •
My hot take is that the Tournament of Power felt like the first modern DB story to show progression since Resurrection F. It took things beyond the formula of Goku and Vegeta training with Whis and taking it in turns to fight one-off bad guys. It's disappointing that the next mainline stories, Broly and Moro, went back to that formula, while this Heroes promotional anime is using ideas that would be better suited to a full-blown sequel.
And now it's getting good animation cuts on top of that? This franchise is in such a weird place at the moment.
Well, after seeing all the praise for this episode I decided to take a look and... well... it's deserved. This episode is pretty freaking great. So good job, Heroes anime. You did good for once.
I dropped this thing months ago, can't even remember after what episode, but this episode made me hop back in and checked out the others I missed out on too. The previous one with Golden Cooler was the only decent one.
But hey, it's two good episodes in a row, so I'll keep up with it from now on, in case another great one like this pops up every so often.
This episode had no right to be as great as it was, so if they have episodes a quarter as good as this one was, it would fulfil all my expectations I had when this was announced. I just want these characters to look and sound cool while they fight... not looking for much here.
goku the krump dancer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:14 pm
Best episode by FAR. Sure they reused some bits from Super but it worked really well. Also this was by far the Best SS Blue transformation next to Goku doing it the Broly movie, it actually FELT powerful.
That's just Shida referencing himself. Just like he loves the head shaking you see Goku do in Battle of Gods, the TOP before he decks Jiren in 130, and Broly when he's told to attack.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
ZeroNeonix wrote: ↑Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:59 pmit wasn't awful, especially after you endure (or skip) the recreations of the BoG and RoF stories.
After enduring (or skipping) terrible retellings, people will have to endure (or better yet, skip too) two tournaments almost simultaneously.
I liked the Universal Tournament, and I liked the Tournament of Power. It's just that they did them both so close together that was the problem. Even then, the ToP did feel like it was increasing the stakes, even if we already had a pretty good idea how it would end. The idea of the thing being a test from the Omnikings felt a bit cheap, though. If Super were a bit longer, with more new stories under its belt, it wouldn't really be much of an issue. It's not like the original Dragon Ball didn't have several tournament arcs. How many was it? Four? Yet nobody complains about that.
But no watches Dragon Ball.
Wish I was kidding. Also, Dragon Ball had 4 tournaments and Muscle Tower was based on a tournament formate as Toriyama stated in an old interview.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
After enduring (or skipping) terrible retellings, people will have to endure (or better yet, skip too) two tournaments almost simultaneously.
I liked the Universal Tournament, and I liked the Tournament of Power. It's just that they did them both so close together that was the problem. Even then, the ToP did feel like it was increasing the stakes, even if we already had a pretty good idea how it would end. The idea of the thing being a test from the Omnikings felt a bit cheap, though. If Super were a bit longer, with more new stories under its belt, it wouldn't really be much of an issue. It's not like the original Dragon Ball didn't have several tournament arcs. How many was it? Four? Yet nobody complains about that.
But no watches Dragon Ball.
Wish I was kidding. Also, Dragon Ball had 4 tournaments and Muscle Tower was based on a tournament formate as Toriyama stated in an old interview.
Yeah, not enough people watch the original Dragon Ball. Starting with Z in America colored our expectations for the series, and Dragon Ball was just different enough to turn Z fans off. Personally, I like DB, but for different reasons than why I like Z.
I liked the Universal Tournament, and I liked the Tournament of Power. It's just that they did them both so close together that was the problem. Even then, the ToP did feel like it was increasing the stakes, even if we already had a pretty good idea how it would end. The idea of the thing being a test from the Omnikings felt a bit cheap, though. If Super were a bit longer, with more new stories under its belt, it wouldn't really be much of an issue. It's not like the original Dragon Ball didn't have several tournament arcs. How many was it? Four? Yet nobody complains about that.
But no watches Dragon Ball.
Wish I was kidding. Also, Dragon Ball had 4 tournaments and Muscle Tower was based on a tournament formate as Toriyama stated in an old interview.
Yeah, not enough people watch the original Dragon Ball. Starting with Z in America colored our expectations for the series, and Dragon Ball was just different enough to turn Z fans off. Personally, I like DB, but for different reasons than why I like Z.
I remember watching and enjoying both on Toonami.
In fact I loved Dragonball because it explained so many things that DBZ never did. It was like getting the 'origin stories' of all of the characters.
After enduring (or skipping) terrible retellings, people will have to endure (or better yet, skip too) two tournaments almost simultaneously.
I liked the Universal Tournament, and I liked the Tournament of Power. It's just that they did them both so close together that was the problem. Even then, the ToP did feel like it was increasing the stakes, even if we already had a pretty good idea how it would end. The idea of the thing being a test from the Omnikings felt a bit cheap, though. If Super were a bit longer, with more new stories under its belt, it wouldn't really be much of an issue. It's not like the original Dragon Ball didn't have several tournament arcs. How many was it? Four? Yet nobody complains about that.
But no watches Dragon Ball.
Wish I was kidding. Also, Dragon Ball had 4 tournaments and Muscle Tower was based on a tournament formate as Toriyama stated in an old interview.
The DB tournaments weren’t 45 episodes long though.
I liked the Universal Tournament, and I liked the Tournament of Power. It's just that they did them both so close together that was the problem. Even then, the ToP did feel like it was increasing the stakes, even if we already had a pretty good idea how it would end. The idea of the thing being a test from the Omnikings felt a bit cheap, though. If Super were a bit longer, with more new stories under its belt, it wouldn't really be much of an issue. It's not like the original Dragon Ball didn't have several tournament arcs. How many was it? Four? Yet nobody complains about that.
But no watches Dragon Ball.
Wish I was kidding. Also, Dragon Ball had 4 tournaments and Muscle Tower was based on a tournament formate as Toriyama stated in an old interview.
The DB tournaments weren’t 45 episodes long though.
What does length have to do with it? One of the best arcs in Yu Yu Hakusho was a tournament that last just as long as the TOP and was over half the show/manga. You can argued quality, but length isn't really a factor.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
Art and animation were great in Episode 13! And I was waiting to see what it would take to break out of Heart's Gravity Burst because it even kept Jiren down. All it took was Goku unleashing his SSJB power so I was a little disappointed by that. But I get that it's promotional anime so there's no real storytelling here. It would've made more sense for Goku to use Kaio-Ken to break free but oh well.
I still don't get how Hearts will be able to challenge Zeno if he's only even with SSJB Goku. Probably has to do with the Universe Seed I'm guessing
"Gohan, let it go. It is not a sin to fight for the right cause. There are those who words alone will not reach. Cell is such a being. I know how you feel Gohan, you are gentle, you do not like to hurt. I know because I too have learned these feelings. But it is because you cherish life that you must protect it. Please drop your restraints. Protect the life I once loved. You have the strength, my scanners sensed it..." -Android 16