Official "Super DB Heroes 2018 Promotional Anime" Discussion Thread

[Grimlock]

Eh. I have no idea what the manga does, but I wouldn't be surprised if Gogeta got SSBKx10.

No one would be, but it will take some time when that happens. Heck, we're only seeing a character getting Super Saiyan God now, after six years, because said form is no longer hot news.

The Heroes series is basically professional fan fiction. Any transformation you could think of is possible,

And so is Dragon Ball Super. We're surrounded by fan fiction. And no, only transformations within the possibilities is, well... possible.

[Kenneth La Torre]

https://twitter.com/DbsHype/status/1185220419399208960

still being called the strongest fusion, huh?

knowing how popular gogeta is, he will not lose to hearts, but will probably defuse before finishing the job.

[ZeroNeonix]

And so is Dragon Ball Super. We're surrounded by fan fiction. And no, only transformations within the possibilities is, well... possible.

Remember SS4Kx10 Gogeta? The form that makes no sense, given the explanation for SSBKx10?

[SSJgogeto]

I don't think Heroes needs to make sense.

[Grimlock]

Remember SS4Kx10 Gogeta? The form that makes no sense, given the explanation for SSBKx10?

No, I don't remember Xeno Gogeta combining Kaio-ken x10 with Super Saiyan 4, just him combining with the regular Kaio-ken (and the funny thing is that most of the forms or techniques characters got recently have been hardly used in the actual story. Xeno Gogeta didn't use Super Saiyan 4 Kaio-ken to fight anyone in the arcade). Then again, what I do remember is that Super Saiyan 4 is not even remotely similar to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Just because the latter has drawbacks, doesn't really mean combining it with another form that is totally different would cause the same effect.

That said, I must ask... What's your point? If Kaio-ken can be combined with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, then it's most certainly sure it can be combined with Super Saiyan 4 too.

I don't think Heroes needs to make sense.

Except for power scaling (which is something that is fucked up in the whole franchise actually), though it doesn't need it, it does make sense anyway.

[SSJgogeto]

I think it's like some movies: it can make sense if you consider it as something separated and independent from the original material. And the powerscalling is somehow even worse here.

[Grimlock]

All the original 17 movies have been confirmed to take place in another dimension. No one considers them as something not separated from the original material. Unless you're talking about a specific concept in particular, which then you'd have to say which one it is so we can say analyze and say for sure whether it makes sense or not.

Nope, power scaling is fucked up throughout the whole franchise. There ain't no medium where it makes sense whatsoever.

[SSJgogeto]

Define "another dimension" in this context, please. As far as I know, it can mean anything, like "non-canon dimension" or whatever.

And Heroes in terms of powerscalling is worse, mainly because of "proportion". In just a few episodes we have more bull than in entire arcs of DB, Z, GT or Super.

[JulieYBM]

Oof, bringing in Gogeta, huh? I was hoping they would just save that for Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta: Xeno but I guess this is inevitable. I wonder how long until we get Yamamuro's versions of Broli: Super, Cheely, and Lemo showing up?

[Grimlock]

Define "another dimension" in this context, please. As far as I know, it can mean anything, like "non-canon dimension" or whatever.

It can only mean in-universe speaking. It is a legit concept just like the Multiverse is.

[SSJgogeto]

The way I see it there's at least two interpretations of Toriyama's answer:

1 - "Toei makes essentialy everything, but the movies are offical then they're canonical (or something like that), I guess. But they and my work are not the same thing... well, let's say they are from another dimension."

2 - "The movies are Toei's work and aren't and adaptation of the manga, so I don't think they're canonical (or something like that). Ok then, let's say they are from another dimension, this will work."

Oof, bringing in Gogeta, huh? I was hoping they would just save that for Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta: Xeno but I guess this is inevitable. I wonder how long until we get Yamamuro's versions of Broli: Super, Cheely, and Lemo showing up?

Broly's Yamamuro already exists. You can see him in some trailers.

[JulieYBM]

The way I see it there's at least two interpretations of Toriyama's answer:

1 - "Toei makes essentialy everything, but the movies are offical then they're canonical (or something like that), I guess. But they and my work are not the same thing... well, let's say they are from another dimension."

2 - "The movies are Toei's work and aren't and adaptation of the manga, so I don't think they're canonical (or something like that). Ok then, let's say they are from another dimension, this will work."

Oof, bringing in Gogeta, huh? I was hoping they would just save that for Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta: Xeno but I guess this is inevitable. I wonder how long until we get Yamamuro's versions of Broli: Super, Cheely, and Lemo showing up?

Broly's Yamamuro already exists. You can see him in some trailers.

I meant within the context of the work. Then again, all I've seen is his depiction of the base form, too. Has he done all of the others?

[SSJgogeto]

In this trailer we can see him in his Super Saiyan form (not Full Power):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07os-cIFeWE

[JulieYBM]

In this trailer we can see him in his Super Saiyan form (not Full Power):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07os-cIFeWE

Lord, it's so stiff and unnatural-looking.

[ZeroNeonix]

Remember SS4Kx10 Gogeta? The form that makes no sense, given the explanation for SSBKx10?

No, I don't remember Xeno Gogeta combining Kaio-ken x10 with Super Saiyan 4, just him combining with the regular Kaio-ken (and the funny thing is that most of the forms or techniques characters got recently have been hardly used in the actual story. Xeno Gogeta didn't use Super Saiyan 4 Kaio-ken to fight anyone in the arcade). Then again, what I do remember is that Super Saiyan 4 is not even remotely similar to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. Just because the latter has drawbacks, doesn't really mean combining it with another form that is totally different would cause the same effect.

That said, I must ask... What's your point? If Kaio-ken can be combined with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, then it's most certainly sure it can be combined with Super Saiyan 4 too.

The reason given for why Goku never used Kaioken with Super Saiyan was because Super Saiyan energy was too wild. The combination would have killed him. God energy, on the other hand, is calm, which is why he was able to combine it with Super Saiyan Blue. Super Saiyan 4 is the wildest of Super Saiyan forms, utilizing the primal power of the Great Ape. Logically speaking, anyone attempting to combine SS4 with Kaioken should spontaneously combust. But this is Heroes, so no one really cares if they break the rules.

[Grimlock]

The way I see it there's at least two interpretations of Toriyama's answer:

1 - "Toei makes essentialy everything, but the movies are offical then they're canonical (or something like that), I guess. But they and my work are not the same thing... well, let's say they are from another dimension."

2 - "The movies are Toei's work and aren't and adaptation of the manga, so I don't think they're canonical (or something like that). Ok then, let's say they are from another dimension, this will work."

I don't see any difference in both cases. Then again, I have already told you that a canon is not necessary at all. You are, once again (like in our previous and useless debate about this), forcing the canon concept as if it has to be there either way/at the end of the paths (I even remember using these exact same words). Again, it does not and I'm not going through this again.

Super Saiyan 4 is the wildest of Super Saiyan forms, utilizing the primal power of the Great Ape.

That is assuming "Super Saiyan 4" is part of the Super Saiyan line transformation, which it is not.

Actually, I should just ask why must Heroes follow a concept (not a rule) that Toei came up with? It was Toei itself that combined Super Saiyan with the Kaio-ken back in the Other World tournament and now, just ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶m̶a̶r̶k̶e̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ because they wanted to bring Kaio-ken back, they wanted to explain why Kaio-ken was "forgotten" and so they came up with this explanation. As far as the "Toriyama's world" is concerned, there's actually no official word that Kaio-Ken and Super Saiyan can't be combined from it, this is a Toei thing exclusive.

But this is Heroes, so no one really cares if they break the rules.

"No one really cares" but for some reason it always gets attention and generates debates (even if most of these debates are more nonsensical than the supposed "rules broken" that Heroes supposedly breaks).

[SSJgogeto]

I don't see any difference in both cases.

Well, it's like the air, you know: you can't see, but is still there.

Then again, I have already told you that a canon is not necessary at all. You are, once again (like in our previous and useless debate about this), forcing the canon concept as if it has to be there either way/at the end of the paths (I even remember using these exact same words). Again, it does not and I'm not going through this again.

I can understand that. If I remember correctly, you suddenly stopped the "useless debate", so it's possible you don't have arguments to mantain your point of view. Ignoring this, I'm not really forcing anything, the canon thing is implicit in the question made for Toriyama. Also, the way you see Toriyama's answer is not the only possible way. If you are impartial about this, you should consider all the possibilities.

[Noah]

About the latest episodes:

Ep. 15

- You know UI Omen/Completed Goku vs. Kamioren could be way more epic considering their size in comparison, but the fight was too slow paced and focused on energy blasts

- At first I thought it was stupid for Zamasu and Hearts not intervene in the fight, but then we discover the Seed Of The Universe was absorbing the energy of the whole battle, quite interesting.


Ep. 16

- Zamasu new technique was nice, I would expect him to destroy U7 easily but that's not in villain 101 book, so yeah he wasted time enough for Jiren and Hit to come join up.

- WTF? He just sealed or erased Zamasu for good? Also Hearts proclaimed himself as "God-killer"? My gosh, that's so cool
but I can't grasp the fact that the series is often a hit and miss just like Super, I guess... So I don't know, sometimes I get annoyed by all that mindless fighting, oh well.

[SupremeKai25]

- Zamasu new technique was nice, I would expect him to destroy U7 easily but that's not in villain 101 book, so yeah he wasted time enough for Jiren and Hit to come join up.

He had a new technique? If you're referring to Hammer of Judgement, that just looks like Blades of Justice on steroids.

- WTF? He just sealed or erased Zamasu for good? Also Hearts proclaimed himself as "God-killer"? My gosh, that's so cool
but I can't grasp the fact that the series is often a hit and miss just like Super, I guess... So I don't know, sometimes I get annoyed by all that mindless fighting, oh well.

Well, technically Zamasu was the first God-killer, since he basically exterminated every kai in the cosmos

[Grand Marshal 1]

- WTF? He just sealed or erased Zamasu for good? Also Hearts proclaimed himself as "God-killer"? My gosh, that's so cool
but I can't grasp the fact that the series is often a hit and miss just like Super, I guess... So I don't know, sometimes I get annoyed by all that mindless fighting, oh well.

Well, technically Zamasu was the first God-killer, since he basically exterminated every kai in the cosmos

Correct. Although in Hearts' case it is a more contradicting nature. Zamasu was a god who killed his colleagues for failing him. I think Napoleon said: "do not fear of a competent and skilled opponent, but of a useless ally" and Zamasu sure did his thing.

Hearts is a mortal who just appeared out of nowhere and wants to go against the higher order of beings above him, thus him being a godkiller delivers a greater importance to his cause.