Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
KingKaash wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:21 am
Art and animation were great in Episode 13! And I was waiting to see what it would take to break out of Heart's Gravity Burst because it even kept Jiren down. All it took was Goku unleashing his SSJB power so I was a little disappointed by that. But I get that it's promotional anime so there's no real storytelling here. It would've made more sense for Goku to use Kaio-Ken to break free but oh well.
I still don't get how Hearts will be able to challenge Zeno if he's only even with SSJB Goku. Probably has to do with the Universe Seed I'm guessing
Isn't the guy who was fighting on par with Jiren getting annihilated by Piccolo and 17?
Yeah, storytelling that is coherent isn't exactly what the show is going for. Cool shit will be cool though.
KingKaash wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:21 am
Art and animation were great in Episode 13! And I was waiting to see what it would take to break out of Heart's Gravity Burst because it even kept Jiren down. All it took was Goku unleashing his SSJB power so I was a little disappointed by that. But I get that it's promotional anime so there's no real storytelling here. It would've made more sense for Goku to use Kaio-Ken to break free but oh well.
I still don't get how Hearts will be able to challenge Zeno if he's only even with SSJB Goku. Probably has to do with the Universe Seed I'm guessing
Isn't the guy who was fighting on par with Jiren getting annihilated by Piccolo and 17?
Yeah, storytelling that is coherent isn't exactly what the show is going for. Cool shit will be cool though.
The merged Baby Clone didn't fight Jiren. He fought Baby Vegeta 2 and was barely trying. In fact, none of Heart's crew did a thing against Jiren.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
Okey a quite simple ep which serves as a prelude to the next one. The starting battle between Hearts and Blue Goku was well animated, but only lasted for a few seconds. Vegeta turns Blue against Zamasu and we never saw that... Anyway, 17 and Piccolo hold back Kamioren with relative ease, with Hearts being above a defeated Goku and commenting how Kamioren is just reckless and can't handle low fighters like them. He them proceeds to suppress the Universe Seed and use it to power up Kamioren. That's something I did not expect to happen. This causes the latter to transform into Anilaza 2.0.lol Eventually the cast faces him with Vegeta Blue being the only one who seems to be able to deal damage but guess what? They are all conveniently placed in front of Kamioren's blast and get defeated. But our heor, Goku despite his injuries rises up and challenges the monster, leaving him hopeless and tapping into Ultra Instinct Omen to end the ep.
It is SDBH. It was a moderate ep. The next one ought to be good, I hope...
Aaaah that's the SDBH I know. Underwhelming and not really interesting. Last time gave quite a scare with actual quality, but we're back to basics now if this time is anything to go by. But in all seriousness it was nice to kinda sorta get a 17/Piccolo thing...for a bit longer before we go back to the usual schedule. Not really a fan of this concept though as giant fights don't tend to be very good. They usually aren't interesting even in the normal series. So I don't really look much forward to see another one. Unless they'll finally realize going balls to the wall with a giant fight is the way to go, instead of just having the giants just stumble a little bit a keel from attacks. Go all ham and send them flying, for lack of a better phrase, go all Superman on it or something and do something cool.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Xeogran wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:50 am
Remember when Lagss fodderized UI Omen? Why they're making a big deal out of it again
Tbh, I got disappointed a little. With what? That Cumber's relationship with the Super Saiyan Gods and possibly Yamoshi was never touched upon again. And with Lagss' backstory. She was interesting imo. And we got nothing with her.
Xeogran wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:50 am
Remember when Lagss fodderized UI Omen? Why they're making a big deal out of it again
To be fair, A LOT of people still misinterpret that scene. Omen Goku kinda defeated himself more than Lagss, using up the rest of the form's power to dissipate the one large crystal which reverted him to base form, at which point Lagss actually DID fodderize him.
Nice to see that SBDH has returned to being an uninteresting dumpster fire again.
But in all seriousness, this episode was a total bore. Dragon Ball can do battles against gigantic characters very well, as seen in the 23rd WMAT, Saiyan arc and even in Dragon Ball Super, so having a battles against gigantic character being that dull is inexcusable. And it always pains me to see how how they waste the mystique of Ultra Instinct on the trash tier villains they have in SDBH. Save that shit for later.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
It's actually kind of sad that they're already using Ultra Instinct again. What I loved about the form originally (before Heroes) was how it felt like it was a form that we won't have to constantly see, that made it special. Goku didn't actually use the form in DBS: Broly, nor did he do it in the current Moro Arc as of this post, and it looks like he probably won't.
Oh well.
Also, Kazuya Karasawa (the guy who storyboarded Heroes episodes 12 and 13) was absent from storyboarding episode 14, as Yamamuro returned to do the job... and now we're all seeing that result. Come on Yammy.
Goku trained with Daishinkan and had pretty much controlled Omen, gotten a new gi and all, and a couple of weeks later he is just blue against the final boss. We gotta love that kind of I don't give a damn attitude from Toei's staff
Far as I can tell, Goku training with Grande Padre is mere fan canon. Neither the game nor the manga say anything about training, rather, Grande Padre simply healed Goku, gave him new clothes and sent him to the battle field.
Dark_Tzitzimine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:48 pm
Far as I can tell, Goku training with Grande Padre is mere fan canon. Neither the game nor the manga say anything about training, rather, Grande Padre simply healed Goku, gave him new clothes and sent him to the battle field.
Given how all this happened after Goku reverted to Base from using MUI for the first time after the tournament and how he used Omen immediately upon arriving at the battle, I would only say that the Grand Priest congratulated him for achieving the state. Perhaps he provided instructions? Friendly advice? Perhaps not. But I doubt that he wouldn't touch upon the subject of Ultra Instinct with him, while together. No training tho.
Dark_Tzitzimine wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:48 pm
Far as I can tell, Goku training with Grande Padre is mere fan canon. Neither the game nor the manga say anything about training, rather, Grande Padre simply healed Goku, gave him new clothes and sent him to the battle field.
Given how all this happened after Goku reverted to Base from using MUI for the first time after the tournament and how he used Omen immediately upon arriving at the battle, I would only say that the Grand Priest congratulated him for achieving the state. Perhaps he provided instructions? Friendly advice? Perhaps not. But I doubt that he wouldn't touch upon the subject of Ultra Instinct with him, while together. No training tho.
Daishinkan: 'Hey, it's just a promo anime, so here's the secret to Ultra Instinct, go wild.'
Also, the twins were beating Hit individually, yet their fused form is losing to Piccolo and 17.
I also wonder if Piccolo hadn't dodged that powerup, he could have intercepted it and gained the Universe Seed power himself... now that would have made this episode good.
This series has even more retarded power scaling than DBS (it seems it's actually possible), although i can forgive such short and, remember, only promotional anime. Especially considering this series actually has some cool antagonists. Still, #17 and Piccolo doing good against Kamioren is total bs. Remember, Vegeta needed SSJBE to beat them.
Speaking of antagonists, Kamioren's new form is just awful. I prefered them unfused to begin with, but regular Kamioren was still cool. Too bad they will probably die next episode and they'll probably die by Goku's hand. They should give this one to Vegeta for once. Especially considering Tuffles were his enemy, at least in their universe.
Fights in this episode were nowhere as good as in the last one (it will be hard to beat this by anything DB related tbh) but it was still good. I only wish Xeno characters returned or at least appear in next story. I'd also like to see Towa.
Anyway, i'm enjoying this arc. If i were to compare it to DBS i'd probably place it below Moro arc and above all the other arcs. Hearts, Laggs and Kamin/Oren are really cool. Plot isn't that good tho, it's pretty basic, but hey, it's based on video game. I'm still mad they didn't show Kefla in anime.
"I will concede that your feelings are worthy of the mightiest of Saiyans. However, there is more to my power than just this. Before you die, I will show it to you. This is the difference in power, between the primitive Saiyans and the evolved Tsufruians." ~Baby Vegeta