Are Dragon Ball's Villains Worse Than Those in Other Anime?

[Ripper 30]

Dragon Ball always featured many different types of villains like Assassins, Conquers, Revenge takers, God Complex characters and the ones who want to cause chaos. we got villains like Tao Pai Pai, Piccolo Daimao, Freeza, Cell, Boo, Baby, Android 17 and Goku Black. but the common criticism i heard is how Dragon Ball villains are pretty shallow and don't have any depth in them (Freeza critisized for having no depth and only being typical Evil for the sake of evil villain with no explanation for his actions and why he does that and not showing anything new other than getting pissed off, Cell is often critisized for being a boring and one dimensional generic bad guy in final form with nothing special, Super Boo critisized for being a boring Cell-rip off with no character at all or personality), them being EVIL for the sake of it without any reason to why they turned that way, no backstory to know the villain as character, only challenging The good guys in the contest of overpowering and not psychologically or mentally or being a barrier to them due to different ideals and making it difficult for audience to decide whom to route for, Villains not feeling like real person, Weak or Contrived motivations (Android 18 and 17 in future Timeline having almost no motivation but just like to kill people) and at dumb actions which indirectly leads to their own demise (Cell often gets critisized for arranging a tournament and giving 10 days to the Good guys to kill him). that's why often Villains like Madara Uchiha, Pain, Toguro, Griffith, Doflamingo, Sensui, Meruem, Dio Brando, Sosuke Aizen, Yoshikage Kira, Father, Naraku, Shishio are always preferred by most of the people over most of the Dragon Ball villains. what do you think about them?

[Cure Dragon 255]

People Like Madara Uchiha? People like Madara Uchiha...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! GOOD ONE!

[Fionordequester]

People Like Madara Uchiha? People like Madara Uchiha...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! GOOD ONE!

I kind of did...if for no other reason than him just being a refreshing change of pace from all the melodrama with a lot of Shippuden's other villains (Obito & Sasuke, I'm looking at you).

[Ripper 30]

People Like Madara Uchiha? People like Madara Uchiha...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! GOOD ONE!

what's wrong with Madara Uchiha? yea that end twist was crap with Zetsu backstabbing but before that incident, what do you find flawed with his motivations, goals, character and personality?

also he has one of the biggest fanbases for villain, he is regarded as the one of the best Villain in battle shounen.

[Cipher]

I think this thread is starting from a patently false assumption that "most people" (who?) prefer other villains to Dragon Ball's, despite the latter being among the most iconic to ever come out of non-Western comics. Freeza and Boo are outrageously identifiable worldwide and cultural touchstones within their native country, with Cell not far behind them.

As for everything else, it's apples to oranges. Dragon Ball isn't a series that's interested in, or fully equipped for, any kind of moral relativism behind its own kind of underlying whimsical nihilism. Bad guys gonna get punched until they die or become friends. But they're going to be fun and genuinely scary and memorable along the way.

[sintzu]

I think people who say this are just looking at things from one side like they do with the rest of DB, such as saying it's just about strong men screaming. An argument can be made about DB not having the best ones as things are always evolving so something made after DB will have a lot of things to use as blueprints but to say they're outright shit is just false IMO. Madara Uchiha is a great villain but the way he was taken out took so much of his credibility away so if we're going to talk about other villains then to be fair we have to bring up their negative sides as well, not just their positives while just pointing out DB's negatives. A downside to Freeza is him being evil for the sake of it but why not bring up how well written he was ?

[BlueBasilisk]

I think people who say this are just looking at things from one side like they do with the rest of DB, such as saying it's just about strong men screaming. An argument can be made about DB not having the best ones as things are always evolving so something made after DB will have a lot of things to use as blueprints but to say they're outright shit is just false IMO. Madara Uchiha is a great villain but the way he was taken out took so much of his credibility away so if we're going to talk about other villains then to be fair we have to bring up their negative sides as well, not just their positives while just pointing out DB's negatives. A downside to Freeza is him being evil for the sake of it but why not bring up how well written he was ?

Most of Dragon Ball's villains are pretty simple and straightforward but I think in some ways it increases their versatility. Take Frieza for example. He's an evil asshole just because he can be. There's no deeper philosophy or freudian motivation there. He's just evil. But because he's like that, you can throw him into just about any situation and add an element of unpredictably without compromising the underlying motivation of his character. I think Frieza is the best example of this because he has such a strong personality aided by Nakao's performance.

[SupremeKai25]

The title made me laugh. If you people seriously believe that Zamasu is shit compared to villains in other animes, you don't know what a good villain is.

Compelling motivations, a morally grey personality, an in-depth backstory, iconic and creative abilities, and an original design. These are the traits of a fantastic and well-written villain. And Zamasu was blessed with all of them. I mean, How is Zamasu a villain who has no real motivation aside from being evil? He wanted MULTIVERSAL PEACE, and JUSTICE. He wanted ORDER AND LAW. How is he not relatable?

[Ripper 30]

I think this thread is starting from a patently false assumption that "most people" (who?) prefer other villains to Dragon Ball's, despite the latter being among the most iconic to ever come out of non-Western comics. Freeza and Boo are outrageously identifiable worldwide and cultural touchstones within their native country, with Cell not far behind them.

As for everything else, it's apples to oranges. Dragon Ball isn't a series that's interested in, or fully equipped for, any kind of moral relativism behind its own kind of underlying whimsical nihilism. Bad guys gonna get punched until they die or become friends. But they're going to be fun and genuinely scary and memorable along the way.

there is this famous video of a Dragon Ball YouTuber who made a video on Dragon Ball villains which in directly implied that they aren't that good because there isn't any motivation behind them doing bad things and they destroy things because they feel like it and there's no depth in them making them "Generic at best".

The title made me laugh. If you people seriously believe that Zamasu is shit compared to villains in other animes, you don't know what a good villain is.

Compelling motivations, a morally grey personality, an in-depth backstory, iconic and creative abilities, and an original design. These are the traits of a fantastic and well-written villain. And Zamasu was blessed with all of them. I mean, How is Zamasu a villain who has no real motivation aside from being evil? He wanted MULTIVERSAL PEACE, and JUSTICE. He wanted ORDER AND LAW. How is he not relatable?

i don't find him that well written, if anything he was just underdeveloped, they should have taken their time in fleshing out his character and give him a relatable backstory like him being humiliated by Mortals in his early days before becoming a Kaio or examples of scenes where we can relate why he despise them so much because the only time they tried to show them were when two barbarians were fighting each other and his fight with Goku which weren't really strong enough to make us relate to, he seemed like a poor man's Sensui otherwise and also him wanting to steal the body of a mortal when he could have stolen the body of a stronger God made him seem more delusional then ever, why not ask Zuno for the strongest guy ever which would be Jiren according to DBS universe, would have made more sense then changing it with Goku.

[floofychan333]

The movie villains are nothing to be proud of, for the most part. However, I think Dragon Ball's main antagonists are effective, particularly Freeza, the Demon King, and to a lesser degree Boo. The first two strike fear into your heart and make a reader/viewer genuinely lose hope, even when they know what happens next. The only issues I have with either is that Freeza's fight is WAY too long. Boo didn't become a truly intimidating villain until he turned into Super Boo, and progressively became more and more effective.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

If "entertaining on the face" is an entirely "wrong" thing to do, sure. But it isn't, not entirely, even more so when we're firmly in the realm of kid stuff. There are deliberate creative strikes you can take against them- most after King Piccolo follow much of his playbook, longer arcs make some villains feel like obstacles more than characters, et cetra- but if you make them fun to watch there's no creative crime here. The crime would be to be simple and boring.

[Cipher]

there is this famous video of a Dragon Ball YouTuber who made a video on Dragon Ball villains which in directly implied that they aren't that good because there isn't any motivation behind them doing bad things and they destroy things because they feel like it and there's no depth in them making them "Generic at best".

I mean, that's well and good for him, but here in Japan everyone and their cat knows who Freeza and Boo are—like to the level that they're ubiquitous cultural references—and that's not something I can say for any other contemporary action manga.

They may be motivationally generic in that they're doing evil to be evil, but even still, we wind up with Freeza feeling distinct from Piccolo (with Piccolo Daimao being perhaps the series' most genuinely generic villain; a demon king doing evil demon king things), feeling distinct from Cell and especially Boo. And beyond that their personality quirks and designs have cemented them as genre and medium icons. That they're full-on evil bad guys in a series that strives to be rather uncomplicated doesn't even factor in.

It's also a bit funny to suggest their "generic" motivations are a detriment when the proposed fix is to give them equally generic, borrowed motivations with some hint of backstory or flawed motive to them. We've all seen the outright supervillain sociopath who spouts off about some moral complex before. It's well-trod genre ground and hardly more complex or believable, if at the end of the day it has to come down to punching anyway. (And if it's a superpowered action series in JUMP, it's going to come down to punching.)

[ABED]

If "entertaining on the face" is an entirely "wrong" thing to do, sure. But it isn't, not entirely, even more so when we're firmly in the realm of kid stuff. There are deliberate creative strikes you can take against them- most after King Piccolo follow much of his playbook, longer arcs make some villains feel like obstacles more than characters, et cetra- but if you make them fun to watch there's no creative crime here. The crime would be to be simple and boring.

I think the crime is to be boring, period. Many villains are meant to be complex but end up just being boring. Sometimes simple is better. KISS - Keep it simple, stupid. Great advice, hurts my feelings every time.

And what do people consider a legitimate motivation for a villain?

[sunsetshimmer]

I don't think villains HAVE to be complex, but it's always better. The truth is DB villains mostly has none or just awful excuse for being evil. They are all just as much evil, just have different excuses for that.

Frieza - wants to rule universe so he kills
King Piccolo - wants to rule Earth and be strongest so he kills
Cell - wants to be strongest so he kills
Future 17&18 - want to have fun so they kill
Buu - he is just evil so he kills lol
Zamasu - brainless narcist believe that everyone is evil so he kills (talk about hypocrisy), that's the funniest case here because they made him actually believe he has any reason to kill anyone so he would seem to be different despite being as pure evil as others if not worse

Even Beerus, who is overall pretty well written character, had no reason to try to destroy Earth when he was introduced as a villain yet.

I feel like the only villains in DB that had ANY motivation and their actions were at least partially understandable were Vegeta, Gero and Baby
Vegeta's main goal was to take revenge on Frieza
Gero's main goal was to take revenge on Goku (although it's not like Red Ribbon Army didn't deserve being destroyed)
Baby's main goal was to take revenge on Saiyans and rebuild his race

We could also argue about Shadow Dragons, but them killing people was their destination, reason why they were born, to punish humans for trying to become gods and fix what they want with dragon balls. I wouldn't say they have good motivation or something but i also wouldn't say they are just evil to be evil.

[ABED]

It's not always better. Why is it ALWAYS better?

Beerus is the god of destruction. It's his job to destroy planets to maintain balance. That's his motivation - duty.

Power lust is a motivation. Why is make up for some pain from someone's past considered a motive but not the desire for power? Vegeta's main motivation was never about Freeza. That was a means to an end. Vegeta wants power and wants to lord it over everyone. That's why he hates Goku so much. Goku screws with his world view. Vegeta's a deep character not because he turns good or has some sob story. He's deep because we understand what drives Vegeta at his core.

Zamasu - brainless narcist believe that everyone is evil so he kills (talk about hypocrisy),

Villains don't have legitimate reasons for doing what they are doing. That's what makes them villains. Being a hypocrite is a great trait for a villain. It's a feature, not a bug.

[Kokonoe]

I honestly feel the villains starting with Vegeta end up being very interesting as far as anime goes. Raditz and Nappa are a bit boring, but Vegeta is still a warrior at heart despite his actions and he makes several "mistakes" for the sake of his warrior spirit against the Z Fighters and Goku so he's not worse in this regard he's actually pretty decent.

Cell in particular adopts this, but also has various witty lines which helps separate him from Vegeta and he's not merely bad to be bad, his goal is to be the strongest at any costs.

It is what it is at the end of the day but I find it's a bit more than what I'm merely saying because the biggest part to me about Dragon Ball Z in particular are the actions taken place matter a lot more than the words do, it's like when you play Sonic and Knuckles for Sega Genesis (or Mega Drive if you prefer), and all the story has no words yet you still feel the impact of Knuckles constantly getting in the way of Sonic, or Robotnik destroying the landscape to fight you on lava, or him attacking Knuckles and stealing the emeralds.

Dragon Ball Z exceeds pretty well in having actions matter IMO.

[BrolyKale]

i don't find him that well written, if anything he was just underdeveloped, they should have taken their time in fleshing out his character and give him a relatable backstory like him being humiliated by Mortals in his early days before becoming a Kaio or examples of scenes where we can relate why he despise them so much because the only time they tried to show them were when two barbarians were fighting each other and his fight with Goku which weren't really strong enough to make us relate to, he seemed like a poor man's Sensui otherwise and also him wanting to steal the body of a mortal when he could have stolen the body of a stronger God made him seem more delusional then ever, why not ask Zuno for the strongest guy ever which would be Jiren according to DBS universe, would have made more sense then changing it with Goku.

I think Zamasu explains why he took over Goku's body, he says :

"Humans truly are foolish. Son Goku shall remain in my body? Exactly! That is my wish! Listen, Saiyan... Listen, Son Goku... you are a human/mortal, yet you have gained power that surpasses even gods. You are the personification of the failure of the gods who created this universe! As such, by becoming one with Son Goku I have taken on the sins of mortals/humans and the failure of gods in this body. This is truly the duty of a god. All of this is for the universe, for the world..."