Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

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ABED
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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by ABED » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:25 pm

If that's a beginning, middle, end, then everything is an arc. There's no conflict except with Uub, but that's barely a conflict. Those final episodes are just wrapping the story up.
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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:25 pm

ABED wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
ABED wrote: Really? You think people prefer the Buu arc to the Saiyan arc?
Yeah I really don't think so lol. The Buu Arc is trash compared to the Saiyan Arc.
You don't even need to knock one to raise the other. The Saiyan arc was Toriyama at the top of his game, and I think that's universally recognized in the fandom.
...*Raises hand*

I rank the Boo arc at #8, and the Saiyan arc at #15. For reference, I put the Afterlife tournament at #13, Black-Star Dragon Ball arc at #14, the Baby arc at #16, and the U6 tournament arc at #17...

Saiyan arc is good, but the fights drag, and it's heavily overshadowed by the Piccolo/23rd Tenkaichi and Namek/Freeza arcs.

Honestly, I consider the Saiyan arc to be one of the key points that showed signs of Toriyama beginning to falter.
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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by PFM18 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:44 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
ABED wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
Yeah I really don't think so lol. The Buu Arc is trash compared to the Saiyan Arc.
You don't even need to knock one to raise the other. The Saiyan arc was Toriyama at the top of his game, and I think that's universally recognized in the fandom.
...*Raises hand*

I rank the Boo arc at #8, and the Saiyan arc at #15. For reference, I put the Afterlife tournament at #13, Black-Star Dragon Ball arc at #14, the Baby arc at #16, and the U6 tournament arc at #17...

Saiyan arc is good, but the fights drag, and it's heavily overshadowed by the Piccolo/23rd Tenkaichi and Namek/Freeza arcs.

Honestly, I consider the Saiyan arc to be one of the key points that showed signs of Toriyama beginning to falter.
the fights drag in the Saiyan Arc? the arc was super short! Maybe the individual fights were a bit longer but if anything drags it is the entire Buu Arc. It is SO damn long.

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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by ABED » Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:51 pm

The Freeza fight is the definition of drag. I like it, but it's longer than entire seasons of US network TV. The only fight I could think that actually drags in the Saiyan arc is Nappa battle, but I'll take that any day over most of the Buu arc fights and pretty much any Cell arc battle. The last two arcs of Z drag a lot. The Buu arc is weird in that it drags even though it feels like Toriyama rushes things.
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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by ekrolo2 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:02 pm

The Freeza fights problem was detailed pretty well by Gaffer Tape: Freeza can transform whenever he wants so it feels really pointless when the protagonists start getting an edge since he can heal himself by changing again. A lot of the pre-Goku vs Freeza stuff feels very superfluous because of this. Adding in a bit of risk to Freeza himself where his bad ki control leaves him vulnerable when he needs to change would've added a nice dynamic where both the heroes and the villain have to play cat and mouse to gain an edge with one another.
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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by ABED » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:06 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:The Freeza fights problem was detailed pretty well by Gaffer Tape: Freeza can transform whenever he wants so it feels really pointless when the protagonists start getting an edge since he can heal himself by changing again. A lot of the pre-Goku vs Freeza stuff feels very superfluous because of this. Adding in a bit of risk to Freeza himself where his bad ki control leaves him vulnerable when he needs to change would've added a nice dynamic where both the heroes and the villain have to play cat and mouse to gain an edge with one another.
Regarding his transformations, I don't think it's pointless, but Toriyama played that tune a few too many times.

Freeza is already leaving himself vulnerable by being in his weaker forms. It takes time for him to transform leaving himself vulnerable to attack, but it's the kind of story where the good guys let the bad guys transform.
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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:10 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Robo4900 wrote:
ABED wrote: You don't even need to knock one to raise the other. The Saiyan arc was Toriyama at the top of his game, and I think that's universally recognized in the fandom.
...*Raises hand*

I rank the Boo arc at #8, and the Saiyan arc at #15. For reference, I put the Afterlife tournament at #13, Black-Star Dragon Ball arc at #14, the Baby arc at #16, and the U6 tournament arc at #17...

Saiyan arc is good, but the fights drag, and it's heavily overshadowed by the Piccolo/23rd Tenkaichi and Namek/Freeza arcs.

Honestly, I consider the Saiyan arc to be one of the key points that showed signs of Toriyama beginning to falter.
the fights drag in the Saiyan Arc? the arc was super short! Maybe the individual fights were a bit longer but if anything drags it is the entire Buu Arc. It is SO damn long.
Long does not mean draggy.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by ABED » Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:19 am

Long does not mean draggy.
Not necessarily, but in both cases, they absolutely do drag. The Gotenks fight is long and goes pretty much nowhere. Same with when Gohan returns. The episodes where Cell arrives on the island to become perfect takes forever to get through.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by ConfusedPhantom » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:32 pm

1. Red Ribbon Army
2. Saiyan Arc
3. Namek Arc
4. Piccolo Daimao arc
5. 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
6. 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc
7. 22rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
8. Androids arc
9. Buu arc
10. Baby arc or Future Trunks arc

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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by PFM18 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 1:33 pm

ConfusedPhantom wrote:1. Red Ribbon Army
2. Saiyan Arc
3. Namek Arc
4. Piccolo Daimao arc
5. 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
6. 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc
7. 22rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
8. Androids arc
9. Buu arc
10. Baby arc or Future Trunks arc
The ToP didn't even make your top 10?

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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by ConfusedPhantom » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:00 pm

PFM18 wrote:
ConfusedPhantom wrote:1. Red Ribbon Army
2. Saiyan Arc
3. Namek Arc
4. Piccolo Daimao arc
5. 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
6. 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc
7. 22rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
8. Androids arc
9. Buu arc
10. Baby arc or Future Trunks arc
The ToP didn't even make your top 10?
The Tournament of Power is all spectacle. While there is aspects I liked about it (Ultra Instinct, how they beat Jiren, who won the tourney, the concepts for the fighters, etc), the plot is very underdeveloped and barebones. There would've been an interesting story to tell with Goku being the cause of it, but it goes nowhere and they just forgot about it. There's no consequence. And, I don't really buy the whole "there's a bigger problem at hand" type of deal, because the plot never really goes to that place to even warrant that. Everyone's still going after Goku. Each episode is just another conclusion. They took too long to figure out what to do with Jiren for him to be interesting. More than half of the Vegeta stuff was the same awful speech. I could go on. Many others have said it. It didn't do much for me. -shrug-

The best thing it did is open doors for better animated Dragon Ball again. I just wish it came with a better story.

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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by PFM18 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:04 pm

ConfusedPhantom wrote:
PFM18 wrote:
ConfusedPhantom wrote:1. Red Ribbon Army
2. Saiyan Arc
3. Namek Arc
4. Piccolo Daimao arc
5. 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
6. 21st Tenkaichi Budokai arc
7. 22rd Tenkaichi Budokai arc
8. Androids arc
9. Buu arc
10. Baby arc or Future Trunks arc
The ToP didn't even make your top 10?
The Tournament of Power is all spectacle. While there is aspects I liked about it (Ultra Instinct, how they beat Jiren, who won the tourney, the concepts for the fighters, etc), the plot is very underdeveloped and barebones. There would've been an interesting story to tell with Goku being the cause of it, but it goes nowhere and they just forgot about it. There's no consequence. And, I don't really buy the whole "there's a bigger problem at hand" type of deal, because the plot never really goes to that place to even warrant that. Everyone's still going after Goku. Each episode is just another conclusion. They took too long to figure out what to do with Jiren for him to be interesting. More than half of the Vegeta stuff was the same awful speech. I could go on. Many others have said it. It didn't do much for me. -shrug-

The best thing it did is open doors for better animated Dragon Ball again. I just wish it came with a better story.
It really is a shame that they didn't go anywhere with Goku being the cause of it. Toppo and Bergamo calling him evil for causing it could have lead somewhere very interesting but they kind of dropped it once the tournament started. It is a huge lost opportunity. To me, it is just the lost opportunity that keeps it from being #1 rather than pushing it out of the top 10 list

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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by Gaffer Tape » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:06 pm

PFM18 wrote: The ToP didn't even make your top 10?
I know you're not asking me, but if I may interject, while I don't know if enough time has passed for me to accurately place things from Super, if I was forced to, ToP would not only fail to make my top ten, it would undoubtedly land at the very bottom of my list. And it would be exactly for the reasons enumerated above.
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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:57 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
PFM18 wrote: The ToP didn't even make your top 10?
I know you're not asking me, but if I may interject, while I don't know if enough time has passed for me to accurately place things from Super, if I was forced to, ToP would not only fail to make my top ten, it would undoubtedly land at the very bottom of my list. And it would be exactly for the reasons enumerated above.
Same here. I consider ToP (anime version) to be not only the worst DBS arc, but also worst DB arc overall.

Golden Frieza, Super 17 and Garlic Jr arcs are very good compared to ToP. That was the worst disaster i ever saw and the only arc in DB i couldn't finish and decided to skip almost all of it. It's the only saga in DB i can rate 0/10 and have no regrets.
Manga version is a lot better for now. Not wasting so much time for forgettable characters no one care about.
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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by PFM18 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:07 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Gaffer Tape wrote:
PFM18 wrote: The ToP didn't even make your top 10?
I know you're not asking me, but if I may interject, while I don't know if enough time has passed for me to accurately place things from Super, if I was forced to, ToP would not only fail to make my top ten, it would undoubtedly land at the very bottom of my list. And it would be exactly for the reasons enumerated above.
Same here. I consider ToP (anime version) to be not only the worst DBS arc, but also worst DB arc overall.

Golden Frieza, Super 17 and Garlic Jr arcs are very good compared to ToP. That was the worst disaster i ever saw and the only arc in DB i couldn't finish and decided to skip almost all of it. It's the only saga in DB i can rate 0/10 and have no regrets.
Manga version is a lot better for now. Not wasting so much time for forgettable characters no one care about.
We get it you hate Super and love GT. Frankly, if you can finish any arc in GT but can't finish the ToP I have to question your sanity.

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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by sunsetshimmer » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:26 pm

PFM18 wrote:
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Gaffer Tape wrote:
I know you're not asking me, but if I may interject, while I don't know if enough time has passed for me to accurately place things from Super, if I was forced to, ToP would not only fail to make my top ten, it would undoubtedly land at the very bottom of my list. And it would be exactly for the reasons enumerated above.
Same here. I consider ToP (anime version) to be not only the worst DBS arc, but also worst DB arc overall.

Golden Frieza, Super 17 and Garlic Jr arcs are very good compared to ToP. That was the worst disaster i ever saw and the only arc in DB i couldn't finish and decided to skip almost all of it. It's the only saga in DB i can rate 0/10 and have no regrets.
Manga version is a lot better for now. Not wasting so much time for forgettable characters no one care about.
We get it you hate Super and love GT. Frankly, if you can finish any arc in GT but can't finish the ToP I have to question your sanity.
Lol it hurt you, did it? I could say the same about your sanity since you watch DBS. It's no difference. There is no fact about GT being worse than Super or vice versa. There isn't even a fact that DBZ is better than any of other series despite people believing it to be a fact. It's not. It never was and it will never be a fact.
And of course i can finish any GT arc, because they have something that ToP doesn't have - ANY story and main villain with ANY personality. Even Super 17 arc has those.

Also, i said that it makes Super 17 arc look like a very good arc. It means that without ToP it is NOT very good arc.
Although honestly most of DBS make Super 17 arc to look decent at least, without DBS it isn't a good arc. It just has badass villain and that's all.
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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by Champa The Destroyer » Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:35 pm

ABED wrote:If that's a beginning, middle, end, then everything is an arc. There's no conflict except with Uub, but that's barely a conflict. Those final episodes are just wrapping the story up.

I know, I wasn't being serious with that part of the post, which is why I put the :P at the end.

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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by jeffbr92 » Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:43 pm

ABED wrote:Really? You think most people prefer the Buu arc to the Saiyan arc?
Why not? The Saiyan arc had outdated animation and bad artstyle, no Super Saiyans, no flashy transformations, Vegeta doesn't hold a candle to Boo when we compare both as villains. Also the Boo arc had Kikuchi on his peak with very memorable soundtracks.
Gaffer Tape wrote:If I may interject, while I don't know if enough time has passed for me to accurately place things from Super, if I was forced to, ToP would not only fail to make my top ten, it would undoubtedly land at the very bottom of my list. And it would be exactly for the reasons enumerated above.
Interesting, how is your opinion about GT in general?
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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by ABED » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:44 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:
ABED wrote:Really? You think most people prefer the Buu arc to the Saiyan arc?
Why not? The Saiyan arc had outdated animation and bad artstyle, no Super Saiyans, no flashy transformations, Vegeta doesn't hold a candle to Boo when we compare both as villains. Also the Boo arc had Kikuchi on his peak with very memorable soundtracks.
Gaffer Tape wrote:If I may interject, while I don't know if enough time has passed for me to accurately place things from Super, if I was forced to, ToP would not only fail to make my top ten, it would undoubtedly land at the very bottom of my list. And it would be exactly for the reasons enumerated above.
Interesting, how is your opinion about GT in general?
The Saiyan arc's animation isn't any more outdated than the Buu arc. In fact it has some of the best animation in all of DB. I wasn't a fan of the Vegeta is a far more interesting villain than Buu, and the fights in the Saiyan arc are among the best in the entire manga and anime. Flashy transformations lose their effect quickly and had long since passed the point of diminishing marginal returns by the Buu arc. Meh about Kikuchi's score in the Buu arc. It's okay, but I'm not as big a fan of his revamped score.

The Buu arc is TOO god damn long!
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Re: Your top 10 favorite story arcs in the DB franchise

Post by Logania » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:57 pm

1. Androids
2. 22nd Budokai
3. Future Trunks
4. Baby
5. 23rd Budokai
6. Tournament of Destroyers
7. Black Star Dragon Balls
8. King Piccolo
9. Shadow Dragons
10. Saiyans

Future Trunks arc used to be pretty low, but I don't know if it's because I rewatched it in dub or just had a different feeling watching it in one sitting, but I enjoyed it a lot more than my first viewing. The ending is still bittersweet and quite unsatisfying, but I wasn't bored out of my mind like in most arcs about halfway through. It's probably English Dub Zamasu that made it so good for me lol
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