Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

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Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:25 pm

Granted, the universal consensus on Linda Young is that she was miscast as Freeza. I’m not disputing that notion at all. With that being said, it’s perhaps somewhat easy to overlook that like with Nadolny, her performance did change over time. My question is, were the changes she made in her later years as Freeza a mild improvement, or did they only make her seem even more miscast?

For comparison, here’s a video on the matter (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CwwTD4ql9ak).

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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:52 pm

I definitely think that she improved, just like everyone else. In the beginning, she sounded so forced. She ended up sounding a lot more natural. It's a rarity for me, but I actually liked her more than her Ocean predecessor, Pauline Newstone. Lots of people despise Young's Freeza, but I think that her voice was fine. The other things like line delivery, timing, and dialog wasn't really her job to master. The director should have said, "Yeah, Linda, I'm not feeling that one," but something tells me that never happened.

I've seen that lots of people hate her portrayal of Freeza because she doesn't sound like what Freeza's character should be. Alright... well, that's really not her fault. I think that had she had the proper lines and directed to give a more calm, sinsiter approach and wasn't so on-the-nose with "look how evil I am!" then she would've been just fine. I really enjoy and appreciate Chris Ayres's incarnation of the character, but with the same dialog and directing, I don't see how Linda Young couldn't do the same thing. I know that she supposedly "couldn't keep up" when they started doing Kai, but I'm really not sure what that means. If she's older and had a hard time recovering after screaming or couldn't follow the directing, that's one thing. But other than that, I really have wondered if that was just Funimation's PR friendly way of dealing with the groan that people had when they heard her Freeza in the first episode.

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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by Forte224 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:13 pm

Overall her delivery improved over time. The laugh seemed to get worse though. It's like it ironically became iconic and so they decided to have her really emphasize the laugh.

I don't think keeping her for Kai would've improved much. It would've been a mildly better performance but hearing that same laugh on Kai episode 1 doesn't give me much evidence she would've improved a significant amount. And, to TheGreatness25, I agree that the whole "she couldn't keep up with the lines" thing is bogus and that her recast was more due to fan's reception of her, particularly fans that wanted an accurate portrayal of the character.

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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:18 pm

She improved SLIGHTLY. If she was a 1 at the beginning, she's a 1.5 by the end of her run. Even her performance as Genkai which is lauded by many who weren't fans of her Freeza isn't very good.

Her performance is more subdued in the first few episodes, but Linda Young got more confident (not better, just confident) and put more energy into her performance over time.
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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:19 pm

Forte224 wrote: And, to TheGreatness25, I agree that the whole "she couldn't keep up with the lines" thing is bogus and that her recast was more due to fan's reception of her, particularly fans that wanted an accurate portrayal of the character.
The reason I’m not sure I can really believe that is because if it’s the case, why’d they initially sign her on to reprise the role to begin with?

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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by Forte224 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:23 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Forte224 wrote: And, to TheGreatness25, I agree that the whole "she couldn't keep up with the lines" thing is bogus and that her recast was more due to fan's reception of her, particularly fans that wanted an accurate portrayal of the character.
The reason I’m not sure I can really believe that is because if it’s the case, why’d they initially sign her on to reprise the role to begin with?
Yeah I guess it's possible that that's the true explanation. But they were really hyping Ayres up if I remember correctly. It could be as Young was recording lines for Freeza they then realized it just didn't fit the character. Along with not being able to keep up. Who knows? But I always suspected they were putting it mildly when they explained why they switched to Ayres.

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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:45 pm

Forte224 wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:
Forte224 wrote: And, to TheGreatness25, I agree that the whole "she couldn't keep up with the lines" thing is bogus and that her recast was more due to fan's reception of her, particularly fans that wanted an accurate portrayal of the character.
The reason I’m not sure I can really believe that is because if it’s the case, why’d they initially sign her on to reprise the role to begin with?
Yeah I guess it's possible that that's the true explanation. But they were really hyping Ayres up if I remember correctly. It could be as Young was recording lines for Freeza they then realized it just didn't fit the character. Along with not being able to keep up. Who knows? But I always suspected they were putting it mildly when they explained why they switched to Ayres.
I think it was backlash when people saw that she was repirising her role in the first episode. Notice that Kai recast all of the voices that people actually complained about from Young to Nadolny to Vollmer. I think that fan backlash would be a reasonable explanation. But, I don't know the real story. Still, hard to imagine how Young couldn't "keep up." I wish they'd elaborate on that.

In the grand scheme of things, I guess my question is this: Had Linda Young had the same dialog and direction as Chris Ayres, what would make Ayres's Freeza better than hers? What quality does Ayres have that she wouldn't given an equal playing field? Is it her voice itself? Because a woman is playing Freeza? Isn't that the argument on the other side of the table about Nozawa playing Goku? If Ayres had to do that initial run of "Pop goes the weasel" and whatnot, would the commentary on his Freeza be different than Young's? I don't know, I was never bothered by Freeza's portrayal other than the dialog and direction. The voice itself, I was fine with.

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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:50 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Forte224 wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:
The reason I’m not sure I can really believe that is because if it’s the case, why’d they initially sign her on to reprise the role to begin with?
Yeah I guess it's possible that that's the true explanation. But they were really hyping Ayres up if I remember correctly. It could be as Young was recording lines for Freeza they then realized it just didn't fit the character. Along with not being able to keep up. Who knows? But I always suspected they were putting it mildly when they explained why they switched to Ayres.
I think it was backlash when people saw that she was repirising her role in the first episode. Notice that Kai recast all of the voices that people actually complained about from Young to Nadolny to Vollmer. I think that fan backlash would be a reasonable explanation. But, I don't know the real story. Still, hard to imagine how Young couldn't "keep up." I wish they'd elaborate on that.
I don’t think Nadolny and Vollmer were exceptionally controversial. It seems like Sean Schemmel was arguably more controversial than Nadolny. I believe I recall hearing that there were a number of factors as to why Nadolny was replaced, and at least one of those reasons was in regards to her DUI incidents.
Last edited by WittyUsername on Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:52 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Forte224 wrote: Yeah I guess it's possible that that's the true explanation. But they were really hyping Ayres up if I remember correctly. It could be as Young was recording lines for Freeza they then realized it just didn't fit the character. Along with not being able to keep up. Who knows? But I always suspected they were putting it mildly when they explained why they switched to Ayres.
I think it was backlash when people saw that she was repirising her role in the first episode. Notice that Kai recast all of the voices that people actually complained about from Young to Nadolny to Vollmer. I think that fan backlash would be a reasonable explanation. But, I don't know the real story. Still, hard to imagine how Young couldn't "keep up." I wish they'd elaborate on that.
I don’t think Nadolny and Vollmer were exceptionally controversial. It seems like Sean Schemmel was arguably more controversial than Nadolny. I believe I recall hearing that there were a number of factors as to why Nadolny was replaced.
You think Schemmel's more controversial? In what way?
Had Linda Young had the same dialog and direction as Chris Ayres, what would make Ayres's Freeza better than hers? What quality does Ayres have that she wouldn't given an equal playing field? Is it her voice itself? Because a woman is playing Freeza? Isn't that the argument on the other side of the table about Nozawa playing Goku? If Ayres had to do that initial run of "Pop goes the weasel" and whatnot, would the commentary on his Freeza be different than Young's? I don't know, I was never bothered by Freeza's portrayal other than the dialog and direction. The voice itself, I was fine with.
Ayres is simply a better actor. Even with crappy dialog, I think he could've made chicken salad out of chicken scratch. It's not Linda being female that's neccessarily the problem, it's that her voice simply doesn't fit Freeza.
Last edited by ABED on Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:56 pm

ABED wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:
TheGreatness25 wrote:
I think it was backlash when people saw that she was repirising her role in the first episode. Notice that Kai recast all of the voices that people actually complained about from Young to Nadolny to Vollmer. I think that fan backlash would be a reasonable explanation. But, I don't know the real story. Still, hard to imagine how Young couldn't "keep up." I wish they'd elaborate on that.
I don’t think Nadolny and Vollmer were exceptionally controversial. It seems like Sean Schemmel was arguably more controversial than Nadolny. I believe I recall hearing that there were a number of factors as to why Nadolny was replaced.
You think Schemmel's more controversial? In what way?
I mean prior to Kai. He was the one who was accused of making Goku sound like a macho superhero, and there was a former user here by the name of Penguintruth who got into an online beef with him. People didn’t really talk about Nadolny as much in comparison. In fact, people didn’t really seem to talk much about her at all before she was replaced.

Personally, I think Schemmel’s performance was fine before Kai, but he definitely received a fair amount of flack among sub fans.

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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:59 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
ABED wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:
I don’t think Nadolny and Vollmer were exceptionally controversial. It seems like Sean Schemmel was arguably more controversial than Nadolny. I believe I recall hearing that there were a number of factors as to why Nadolny was replaced.
You think Schemmel's more controversial? In what way?
I mean prior to Kai. He was the one who was accused of making Goku sound like a macho superhero, and there was a former user here by the name of Penguintruth who got into an online beef with him. People didn’t really talk about Nadolny as much in comparison. People didn’t really seem to talk much about Nadolny until she was replaced.

Personally, I think Schemmel’s performance was fine before Kai, but he definitely received a fair amount of flack among sub fans.
I don't recall that being the case. I don't think Nadolny's performance as Gohan was looked at as fondly, even by dub fans who grew up with her as Gohan, whereas Schemmel's performance was liked by dub fans.
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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:59 pm

I think that Sean hammered out the role in the Boo arc and then for Ultimate Uncut. His portrayal of Goku sounds pretty much the same in those as it does in Kai, except for the dialog obviously.

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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:05 pm

ABED wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:
ABED wrote:You think Schemmel's more controversial? In what way?
I mean prior to Kai. He was the one who was accused of making Goku sound like a macho superhero, and there was a former user here by the name of Penguintruth who got into an online beef with him. People didn’t really talk about Nadolny as much in comparison. People didn’t really seem to talk much about Nadolny until she was replaced.

Personally, I think Schemmel’s performance was fine before Kai, but he definitely received a fair amount of flack among sub fans.
I don't recall that being the case. I don't think Nadolny's performance as Gohan was looked at as fondly, even by dub fans who grew up with her as Gohan, whereas Schemmel's performance was liked by dub fans.
If the polls for the BTVA website are any indication, she definitely seems to have her fans. I’m not saying she was ever universally loved, but Sean Schemmel was definitely the one who received far more accusations of not understanding Goku’s character.

The bottom line is that from everything I’ve heard, Nadolny and Vollmer (more so Nadolny) were replaced for reasons independent of how they were perceived by fans.

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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:09 pm

Again, the accusation of "not understanding the character" doesn't lie with the voice actor, but the director. Toward the end of the Boo arc and through Ultimate Uncut, Sean developed a softer, much less forced voice for Goku which made it obvious that with the right script, he could have portrayed the right Goku. I remember his "people popcorn" line standing out to me because it was the first time where I heard that innocence in his voice, even though the dialog was trash. Even as a kid, I remember the tone that he had in that line standing out. If the criticism against Schemmel was that he didn't portray Goku the way he was meant to be portrayed, the same could be said about pretty much everyone. But that's due to writing.

I'd say Nadolny's Goku was much better received than her Gohan, more particularly because she was a lot more seasoned when she did Goku. Her Gohan sounded so raspy and weird. I never recall anyone liking her Gohan.

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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:19 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:Again, the accusation of "not understanding the character" doesn't lie with the voice actor, but the director. Toward the end of the Boo arc and through Ultimate Uncut, Sean developed a softer, much less forced voice for Goku which made it obvious that with the right script, he could have portrayed the right Goku. I remember his "people popcorn" line standing out to me because it was the first time where I heard that innocence in his voice, even though the dialog was trash. Even as a kid, I remember the tone that he had in that line standing out. If the criticism against Schemmel was that he didn't portray Goku the way he was meant to be portrayed, the same could be said about pretty much everyone. But that's due to writing.

I'd say Nadolny's Goku was much better received than her Gohan, more particularly because she was a lot more seasoned when she did Goku. Her Gohan sounded so raspy and weird. I never recall anyone liking her Gohan.
I would go farther than that and say that Sean Schemmel’s voice itself has never really been a problem for the character. Even back in 1999, the problem with his Goku primarily lied in the fact that he obviously wasn’t a very experienced actor, and he was given some pretty ill fitting lines. The voice itself has never struck me as being particularly macho or anything. With that being said, there definitely were some hardcore sub fans who detested his Goku for the reasons I mentioned earlier. I think part of the reason certain sub fans hated his Goku might’ve been a reaction to the accusations from dub fans about how Masako Nozawa supposedly made Goku sound too “womanly” and “gay”, but that’s just been my observation.

As for Nadolny, it’s worth pointing out that she pretty much dropped the rasp for her Gohan voice from 2002 onward, although whether or not the more nasally voice she gave for the character could be considered an improvement might vary from person to person.

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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:23 pm

I actually did have a problem with Schemmel's voice in the beginning. It just sounded annoying to me. But as time progressed and he went into the Cell arc, I was more okay with it. Sometimes he'd sound like he was mumbling his lines or slurring his speech, but that was experience. And then sometimes, his delivery was terrible -- that was experience and directing. But all of that stuff got worked through early on with his portrayal.

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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:42 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
ABED wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:
I mean prior to Kai. He was the one who was accused of making Goku sound like a macho superhero, and there was a former user here by the name of Penguintruth who got into an online beef with him. People didn’t really talk about Nadolny as much in comparison. People didn’t really seem to talk much about Nadolny until she was replaced.

Personally, I think Schemmel’s performance was fine before Kai, but he definitely received a fair amount of flack among sub fans.
I don't recall that being the case. I don't think Nadolny's performance as Gohan was looked at as fondly, even by dub fans who grew up with her as Gohan, whereas Schemmel's performance was liked by dub fans.
If the polls for the BTVA website are any indication, she definitely seems to have her fans. I’m not saying she was ever universally loved, but Sean Schemmel was definitely the one who received far more accusations of not understanding Goku’s character.

The bottom line is that from everything I’ve heard, Nadolny and Vollmer (more so Nadolny) were replaced for reasons independent of how they were perceived by fans.
Maybe you're right, but it's not his job to neccessarily understand the character. It's his job to read and record the lines based on what the director tells him to do. I'm sure Vollmer was replaced due to her reception from fans. I don't recall her getting a lot of love from either dub or sub fans.
back in 1999, the problem with his Goku primarily lied in the fact that he obviously wasn’t a very experienced actor
That was apparent from everyone, including Linda Young.
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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by ekrolo2 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:52 pm

ABED wrote:Maybe you're right, but it's not his job to neccessarily understand the character. It's his job to read and record the lines based on what the director tells him to do.
Yeah, a surprising amount of people don't seem to get that no matter how much an actor can "get" a character if the direction takes them someplace else, they're beholden to that.

I don't see how a Schemmel more in tune with Goku's actual personality could make the superheroic lines magically less shit. Some might say as an actor he'd have the pull to try and not include them but not in the original run. Hell, even for Kai they had to go through a process just to say Son Goku once.
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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:25 pm

I can't think of anyone on the original FUNimation cast that didn't improve at least a little bit over time. Some improved just a teency-weency bit, some improved by a lot, but everybody improved. That's not to say that I ended up liking all of the performances...there are some performances that, even after their improvement, I'm not a huge fan of...but everybody improved.
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Re: Would you say Linda Young got better or worse over time?

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:38 pm

She got a little better, but she was still awful and completely unfitting.
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