Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

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Re: Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

Post by Guntank » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:14 am

Many people that I know of, refuse to watch the original DB because:
- "It's not serious enough"
-"I don't like how they look so pudgy"
- "It doesn't have epic battles"
Even though I tell them to just give it a shot, they still refuse. oh well their loss

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Re: Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

Post by KBABZ » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:26 am

Guntank wrote:Many people that I know of, refuse to watch the original DB because:
- "It's not serious enough"
-"I don't like how they look so pudgy"
- "It doesn't have epic battles"
Even though I tell them to just give it a shot, they still refuse. oh well their loss
All three are thoroughly addressed by the 23rd TB arc, and the Daimao arc before it is no slouch either!

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Re: Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:03 am

KBABZ wrote:All three are thoroughly addressed by the 23rd TB arc, and the Daimao arc before it is no slouch either!
Same also goes for the 22nd Budokai as well.
KBABZ wrote:Personally I think it happened way earlier than that, where since the mid-90s the vast majority of Dragon Ball games were based on Z first, with the odd OG DB release usually being treated secondarily (like the legendary amount of times that the GBA game was delayed).
That's mostly because of the way that most license games based on long-running manga/anime usually works in Japan. With most long-running series, video game adaptations will often be based mainly on what the latest story arc happens to be at that point in time, because that's what the most current material is. With Dragon Ball for example, most of the games that came out in the NES/Famicom era were based on the original Dragon Ball arcs because those arcs were where the series was at; and only slowly over time did they became more Z focused as the manga/anime dovetailed into that era.

By the mid-90s, most of the DBZ games were only centered around the Cell and Boo arcs, because those were the latest arcs in the series at that point in time. Its less that there was an overall Z focus in the games, as there really weren't many games made during the mid-90s with much of a Saiya-jin or Freeza saga emphasis (the rare exceptions were games like the Gokuden and Idainaru series, which encompassed ALL of the series from start to finish, including the original DB material). From around '93 to '97, or so, the games were overwhelmingly Cell and Boo dominated simply because those were the most current material in the series. And even then, you still had at least SOME games that covered earlier material (both earlier Z AND earlier DB) from time to time.

Point being, its less that the 90s video games were more Z-focused in general as much as they were more focused on "this is what the latest arc of the manga/anime is right now".
PsionicWarrior wrote:Wtf? Refusing to watch or read DB is like being christian but refusing the read the Bible lol
Most Christians in America, on average, don't actually read the Bible and have no earthly idea what's actually written in most of it. They'll mainly identify as Christians primarily out of blind familial tribalism rather than out of any concrete knowledge about what the texts of their religion actually dictates.
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Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

Post by Dr. Casey » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:26 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Guntank wrote:Many people that I know of, refuse to watch the original DB because:
- "It's not serious enough"
-"I don't like how they look so pudgy"
- "It doesn't have epic battles"
Even though I tell them to just give it a shot, they still refuse. oh well their loss
All three are thoroughly addressed by the 23rd TB arc, and the Daimao arc before it is no slouch either!
I'd actually argue that in terms of tension, the Piccolo Daimao arc beats out the 23rd Budokai by a mile. I love both arcs, but the sense of dread and oppression was way thicker for me during the Daimao arc; doing things like going on a mission to snuff out all the capable martial artists, or going on a campaign of terror by destroying one of the major districts per year, does a great job of helping you to feel the world's sense of fear and helplessness. The 23rd Budokai is great, has a very nice visual direction (as the only story arc that has a consistently rainy and stormy aesthetic) and some awesome fights and story moments, but the fact that Goku is Piccolo's equal the whole way through kept things from ever feeling hopeless or like the good guys' backs were against the wall the same way as in his father's time.
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Re: Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:30 pm

If fans decide to refuse to watch Dragon Ball, that's their loss. I love me some Dragon Ball as it takes the series back to the roots where it was just about martial arts, adventure, comedy and it's pretty relaxing.

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Re: Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

Post by Waluigiman » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:23 pm

They see it as optional because they had seen Dragon Ball Z and they preferred its more darker tone instead of the gag show it was once. I am not going to say that they are terrible people because they refuse to watch the first part, but I don't consider the refusal as a good thing since it actually affects some things:

1. Makes Dragon Ball Z less emotional:No one gave a care when the human fighters died in the Saiyan saga wether they knew they will be revived or not. I myself remember watching Dragon Ball Z and seeing Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and Tien die and it was too emotionally underwhelming. At that time, to me they were just nobodies and I only cared for Goku and the other characters who debuted in Dragon Ball Z. I didn't care about how Dragon Ball Z "ruined" them because I didn't know what they had lost. Now seeing Dragon Ball, the human characters quickly became more popular to me and now I see how harsh they had been treated by Dragon Ball Z. Seeing Dragon Ball, Yamcha instantly became my favorite Dragon Ball character (when he joined Goku, Bulma, and Oolong) and I became a fan of side characters such as Puar or the turtle, characters who are often overlooked for not being strong fighters. If you watch Dragon Ball, Krillin's death in Dragon Ball Z is more emotional to Goku because Krillin had been his friend since they were kids and we actually get to see it in order to feel Goku's loss.

2.Gives misconceptions about non Saiyan characters: Overlaps with one. So many people like the saiyans and hate or ignore the earthlings and Piccolo(to a lesser extent) for being weak or for lacking transformations. They are unpopular because most fans hadn't seen Dragon Ball and don't know their charisma or their cool and unique abilities. Because of this, it affects the merchandise and Dragon Ball Super by making it more Saiyan focused. Imagine a different world in which non-saiyans were as popular as Goku and Vegeta and they had more merchandise for the fans (and more money to the people of Dragon Ball). In One punch Man this is not a problem because the show already introduced the heroes to be significantly weaker than Saitama, so they didn't lose any potential or screen time.

3.No cool fights or cool story for them to see: Dragon Ball is not perfect but is superior at storytelling than both Dragon Ball Z and Super. It contained martial arts and was less predictable than most of the fights of later. The story had no formula despite having the characters always facing stronger enemies as the story continued. The powerscaling was not messy (if it existed) and everyone had a better chance of being relevant to the story. It also was good at using its characters as Goku could interact with everyone (minus Chiaotzu) besides Bulma, his current rival, and the villain of the story.

Drats! I use different wording, but I always keep "saying" the same thing. I need a hobby. No matter what topic it is, it always appears that I keep mentioning my concern with the other characters. :oops:

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Re: Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:47 pm

Waluigiman wrote:They see it as optional because they had seen Dragon Ball Z and they preferred its more darker tone instead of the gag show it was once. I am not going to say that they are terrible people because they refuse to watch the first part, but I don't consider the refusal as a good thing since it actually affects some things:

1. Makes Dragon Ball Z less emotional:No one gave a care when the human fighters died in the Saiyan saga wether they knew they will be revived or not. I myself remember watching Dragon Ball Z and seeing Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and Tien die and it was too emotionally underwhelming. At that time, to me they were just nobodies and I only cared for Goku and the other characters who debuted in Dragon Ball Z. I didn't care about how Dragon Ball Z "ruined" them because I didn't know what they had lost. Now seeing Dragon Ball, the human characters quickly became more popular to me and now I see how harsh they had been treated by Dragon Ball Z. Seeing Dragon Ball, Yamcha instantly became my favorite Dragon Ball character (when he joined Goku, Bulma, and Oolong) and I became a fan of side characters such as Puar or the turtle, characters who are often overlooked for not being strong fighters. If you watch Dragon Ball, Krillin's death in Dragon Ball Z is more emotional to Goku because Krillin had been his friend since they were kids and we actually get to see it in order to feel Goku's loss.

2.Gives misconceptions about non Saiyan characters: Overlaps with one. So many people like the saiyans and hate or ignore the earthlings and Piccolo(to a lesser extent) for being weak or for lacking transformations. They are unpopular because most fans hadn't seen Dragon Ball and don't know their charisma or their cool and unique abilities. Because of this, it affects the merchandise and Dragon Ball Super by making it more Saiyan focused. Imagine a different world in which non-saiyans were as popular as Goku and Vegeta and they had more merchandise for the fans (and more money to the people of Dragon Ball). In One punch Man this is not a problem because the show already introduced the heroes to be significantly weaker than Saitama, so they didn't lose any potential or screen time.

3.No cool fights or cool story for them to see: Dragon Ball is not perfect but is superior at storytelling than both Dragon Ball Z and Super. It contained martial arts and was less predictable than most of the fights of later. The story had no formula despite having the characters always facing stronger enemies as the story continued. The powerscaling was not messy (if it existed) and everyone had a better chance of being relevant to the story. It also was good at using its characters as Goku could interact with everyone (minus Chiaotzu) besides Bulma, his current rival, and the villain of the story.

Drats! I use different wording, but I always keep "saying" the same thing. I need a hobby. No matter what topic it is, it always appears that I keep mentioning my concern with the other characters. :oops:

The comedic-ness really lessens over time during the course of the original series actually, the Piccolo Daimao and 23rd Budokai arcs in particular have much more serious weight to them compared to what comes before. They are more similar to Z in regard to the tone of the fights although not quite to the level of Super Saiyans and Genki Dama's yet or the focus on power levels and the like.

Not watching the original series really leaves out where the characters started off and their relationships are established, and that in turn leaves a huge gap because you don't know where they came from.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

Post by KBABZ » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:51 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
KBABZ wrote:All three are thoroughly addressed by the 23rd TB arc, and the Daimao arc before it is no slouch either!
Same also goes for the 22nd Budokai as well.
Not that I disagree with you, but I think the DB-hating dubbies would take issue with the "pudgy" designs for Goku and Krillin as kids during that era. Hence why I used the 23rd TB as my example since all the characters are at least teenagers, and being the arc preceding Z the characters look the most like they do in the Saiyan arc.

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Re: Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:59 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:
KBABZ wrote:All three are thoroughly addressed by the 23rd TB arc, and the Daimao arc before it is no slouch either!
Same also goes for the 22nd Budokai as well.
Not that I disagree with you, but I think the DB-hating dubbies would take issue with the "pudgy" designs for Goku and Krillin as kids during that era. Hence why I used the 23rd TB as my example since all the characters are at least teenagers, and being the arc preceding Z the characters look the most like they do in the Saiyan arc.
Yup, the overall style of the characters was progressing and changing ever so gradually as Toriyama was drawing the manga week in and week out. The playful, rounded style of art he had been doing since Dr. Slump or earlier stuck around until some time into the Freeza arc before it became more angular looking. It was basically changing in the show more or less at the same time the manga chapters was coming out in Weekly Jump.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

Post by KBABZ » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:05 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:Yup, the overall style of the characters was progressing and changing ever so gradually as Toriyama was drawing the manga week in and week out. The playful, rounded style of art he had been doing since Dr. Slump or earlier stuck around until some time into the Freeza arc before it became more angular looking. It was basically changing in the show more or less at the same time the manga chapters coming out in Jump.
Agreed! It's an interesting facet to both the show and the manga, seeing it evolve over time and how it tackles certain aspects of characters like chins and cheek bones. Or even just Yamcha's boots, haha. Personally I like the pudgier style for that part of the story as it suits the more light-hearted nature of the early parts of the story, but it's also neat when the show does the occasional freshly-animated flashback to those days like when Gero explains his little ladybug drones in the Android Arc, because then you can compare the approaches:
And that's not even mentioning The Path to Power reanimating key scenes from the earliest portions of the manga and show!

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Re: Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:20 pm

KBABZ wrote:
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:Yup, the overall style of the characters was progressing and changing ever so gradually as Toriyama was drawing the manga week in and week out. The playful, rounded style of art he had been doing since Dr. Slump or earlier stuck around until some time into the Freeza arc before it became more angular looking. It was basically changing in the show more or less at the same time the manga chapters coming out in Jump.
Agreed! It's an interesting facet to both the show and the manga, seeing it evolve over time and how it tackles certain aspects of characters like chins and cheek bones. Or even just Yamcha's boots, haha. Personally I like the pudgier style for that part of the story as it suits the more light-hearted nature of the early parts of the story, but it's also neat when the show does the occasional freshly-animated flashback to those days like when Gero explains his little ladybug drones in the Android Arc, because then you can compare the approaches:
And that's not even mentioning The Path to Power reanimating key scenes from the earliest portions of the manga and show!
Yeah, it's cool to see just how much things changed artistically in Toriyama's drawing from beginning to end. Early on it still has that distinct Dr. Slump type of roundness he used previously but eventually evolves to be much sharper and angular by the time you get to the Buu arc, i don't think i have seen another manga or anime series undergo such a progressive change in artistic style in the course of the same run as Dragon Ball had done.
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1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

Post by Guntank » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:19 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Guntank wrote:Many people that I know of, refuse to watch the original DB because:
- "It's not serious enough"
-"I don't like how they look so pudgy"
- "It doesn't have epic battles"
Even though I tell them to just give it a shot, they still refuse. oh well their loss
All three are thoroughly addressed by the 23rd TB arc, and the Daimao arc before it is no slouch either!
I know!! it's frustrating man! They miss out on those amazing choreographed fights that blow older DBZ episodes out of the water... but what can you do, can't force people to watch something

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Re: Why do so many Z fans refuse to watch the original Dragon Ball?

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:58 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:Wtf? Refusing to watch or read DB is like being christian but refusing the read the Bible lol
Most Christians in America, on average, don't actually read the Bible and have no earthly idea what's actually written in most of it. They'll mainly identify as Christians primarily out of blind familial tribalism rather than out of any concrete knowledge about what the texts of their religion actually dictates.
Ok, that's not really an excuse though lol

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