I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by 90sDBZ » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:16 pm

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
90sDBZ wrote:
JohnnyCashKami wrote: Unofficial/replacement score, that is. I'd find it interesting if FUNimation got rid of completely of the Faulconer soundtrack and stuck to the original for upcoming releases.

I'm guessing they'll eventually do that.
If they do ever decide to leave it out I for one won't be supporting said release, and I'm certain many others wouldn't either.
Dragon Box Z was like this. It's really just making progress and leave the replacement music in the past.
Outright disregarding a big chunk of the fanbase is progress? I might understand if you were complaining about the dub with Kikuchi not being an option, but it has been since 2007. Wanting to exclude something from the release for the sake of excluding it because you don't like it has nothing to do with progress.

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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by Night Owl » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:47 pm

I'm with you. I think some of the Faulconer score is actually very good. I think his score was well-suited to the show in tense or darker moments - the comedy ones, I can do without.

One track in particular I was thinking about recently was Kami's theme (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeRBON60nVE): is there any reason why this was never released? I quite like the melancholic tone and this is really a wave of nostalgia for me, as is the Piccolo theme posted earlier. Actually, I sometimes enjoy putting the Faulconer score on Spotify and attaching the nostalgia trip to moments from the series where certain tracks were placed.
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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:30 pm

I have no problem with the Faulconer score as standalone music. In the context of Dragon Ball it doesn't fit. It lacks the sense of adventure and old martial story you get from Kikuchi. It's far better suited to the video games. That said, I do think it would be in Funimation's best interest to keep the score in future releases to prevent alienating a not insignificant portion of their customer base.
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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:34 pm

I think it's unreasonable for some fans to think that the dub is this big, totally hated thing. It was that dub that was aired, that dub that helped propel Dragon Ball into English-speaking fans' lives, and it was that dub that has nearly single-handedly kept Funimation afloat and even helped it thrive. I think it's crazy to think that there isn't at least a sizable chunk of the audience that enjoys the replacement score, I think it's insane to think that there isn't a large group of people who enjoys the old voices, and I think it's absolute lunacy to think that there isn't a portion of the audience that prefers the dub to the original.

I, myself, enjoy the pre-Kai dub. That's what I grew up with. Do I think it's better than the original? No. Do I think it's better than the Kai dub? Nope. But, it does have its own place in my heart that's ranked much higher than the Kai dub. I enjoyed having that wacky, almost so bad it's good dub. I enjoy reminiscing and getting that warm feeling when I hear it. Kai does nothing for me, but the original and dub definitely have separate compartments in my nostalgia bank. At the end of the day, Power Rangers was absolutely putrid, but it has this giant legion of fans. That's the dub for me. I enjoy having different versions of the series that do more than just translate it. Because while I don't currently -- and might never -- speak Japanese, I can certainly read. And thanks to Funimation, I can read the translation. I don't need a dub for that. But to tinker with it and make it something new, that's pretty cool. Like Abridged, for example.
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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by ABED » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:38 pm

I'm also nostalgic for that time, but I find it hard to believe that fans wouldn't be just as nostalgic about DBZ if we had a proper dub back then. The plus side is people wouldn't miss a score that never existed.
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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:39 pm

ABED wrote:I'm also nostalgic for that time, but I find it hard to believe that fans wouldn't be just as nostalgic about DBZ if we had a proper dub back then. The plus side is people wouldn't miss a score that never existed.
Nobody said that a proper dub couldn't get the same effect. Not coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't exist. We have what we have and there are a lot of people who love it.

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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:00 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:I have no problem with the Faulconer score as standalone music. In the context of Dragon Ball it doesn't fit. It lacks the sense of adventure and old martial story you get from Kikuchi. It's far better suited to the video games. That said, I do think it would be in Funimation's best interest to keep the score in future releases to prevent alienating a not insignificant portion of their customer base.
I so agree with this! I really like Sumitomo's Kai TFC score but I can't stand watching the actual episodes with that soundtrack, it just doesn't suit the series at all in my opinion and makes it unbearable to watch.

What Sumitomo did would have suited to be a video game score.

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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by Xeztin » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:37 pm

The Dub holds a special place in my heart. When I was a kid before we had internet as far as I knew this show was american made and was the original. I loved the dub up until I got older and realized not just how inacurate it was, but how a change of one line could change the entire outlook of the arc and what it was supposed to be. I love the Dub still, Even rewatched the GT dub. However, I the original Japanese will always be king for me upon discovering. Not that I don’t enjoy the dub, just that I like knowing what the original intent or idea behind something was. There are a lot of jokes and puns or even explanations of transformations etc.. that don’t translate well from Japanese culture to our native language. In other words it flys over your head, but when you watch the original you sort of “get it” and we have a bunch of translators in the community that help us understand as well.

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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by ABED » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:45 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:
ABED wrote:I'm also nostalgic for that time, but I find it hard to believe that fans wouldn't be just as nostalgic about DBZ if we had a proper dub back then. The plus side is people wouldn't miss a score that never existed.
Nobody said that a proper dub couldn't get the same effect. Not coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't exist. We have what we have and there are a lot of people who love it.
And as with Power Rangers, we see that even crap can be popular. Is your entire point that the dub was popular? If so, that's never been in dispute.
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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by Majin Buu » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:03 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:I have no problem with the Faulconer score as standalone music. In the context of Dragon Ball it doesn't fit. It lacks the sense of adventure and old martial story you get from Kikuchi. It's far better suited to the video games.
Faulconer's music by itself I've always found to be pretty bland. As video game music it would just be bland video game music. His closest counterpart in that realm would be Kenji Yamamoto, and he's not on Yamamoto's level at all (plagiarism aside).

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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:54 pm

The way I see it, while the Faulconer score had no reason to exist in the first place, there’s no point in pretending that it never existed to begin with. If you’re going to include the dub on a home video release, you might as well include the replacement music as an optional track.

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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by samuraix123 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:04 pm

I'm a dub fan as well! I've grown up with the original dub of ocean and such. I still love watching the show in Japanese with subs as well and I'm glad I don't worry what everyone else thinks because I know they don't care what I think of what they like. I however hate the orange bricks and do feel the dragonboxes has the best superior quality. the blurays are alright as well especially the level sets but I'm allllllll about those dragonboxes lol I do like the voice acting in kai too but sometimes there's lines in that and the way certain characters talk, kills me. lol us fans can be too picky at times and I wished people wouldn't fight and bicker over what a person likes etc.
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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by Bajosexto » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:55 pm

That's cool. We're all free to enjoy whatever we want. Personally, I don't like it. In my opinion it is a terrible dub. But that doesn't mean people can't like/love it. A lot of people do. And that's okay. I just wish more people accepted it for what it is. A terrible English adaptation of Dragon Ball Z. I know you probaly diagree with me, but honestly it's just not a good dub. And it really bothers me that it gets constantly praised as one of best English dubs ever. Like I said, it's completely fine to love it. Some of the dubs I love have erros, changes and mistranslations. And I accept that.

Anyway, I'm don't want to start a debate about the quality of the FUNi Z dub. This thread is not the place for that. I only wanted to point out that it's completely fine to like it. But at the same time people should accept that it's not a very good dub.
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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by ulisa » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:09 am

I personally love the pre-Kai dub. I also love the Japanese original. I also love the Kai dub. I just have different reasons why I love them. I will admit to being partial to the pre-Kai dub though. It was the first one I was exposed to and honestly, I do prefer some of the old voices, particularly young Goku and young Gohan. I have nothing against the new voices and I think they do a fine job but they just don't connect with me as the others do. Is it nostalgia? Eh, maybe though I didn't get "into" Dragonball until well into my high school years so I don't think there's as much an emotional connection so much as it's personal preference.

As for the dub itself, I fully acknowledge that in terms of accuracy, dialogue, etc. it's pretty abysmal. Yet, I still like it. I suppose I've always had a thing for cheese and that's what the pre-Kai dub reminds me of: a cheesy Saturday morning cartoon. There's a type of charm to it in that manner and I can't help but still admire it for that. I know that pre-Kai Goku is quite different from his original Japanese counterpart but truthfully, I don't mind that. I suppose I look at it like I look at "other" incarnations in comics. The version of Superman in the original comics is going to be quite different from his 'Flashpoint' persona or his 'Elseworlds' persona. I just view it as that--different but so long as I enjoy it, that's really all I care about. I fully acknowledge that it was not the original intent and when discussing Goku, unless we're specifically talking about pre-Kai Goku, I try to keep the original Japanese or Kai dub in mind when discussing things.

For the most part, I prefer the original Japanese music but there are a few tracks of the replacement score I like, in particular the 'Time Chamber' scenes and the defeat of Cell. Speaking of the latter, even though the Kai dub did excellent, I find myself preferring the original dub for that scene. I can't quite put my finger on it but the emotion seems like it's lacking in the new one. I still enjoy it and find it's well done but it doesn't feel as invested as the old. There's a few scenes that trigger that reaction in me.

I can totally understand why people dislike this dub though. If you want an accurate representation, this is likely not the place to find it. For me though, it's still fun to watch. Case in point, the dub of Movie 3 is probably one of the most inaccurate dubs of the movies and yet I really adore it. It's one of those things that I just chock up to 'personal preference' and enjoy it for what it is.
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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by Fizzer » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:27 am

I stick with the Japanese version these days, believe the original music is much more in the spirit of DB, Goku isn't a superhero yada yada yada, but man there are some pieces of music from the dub that I still love, especially music in the Buu saga which didn't feel nearly as intense when I came to watch it in Japanese.

Goku's Spirit Bomb and Perfect Cell's theme are also brilliant at doing what they do. That theme could be why, to this day, when I think "Dragon Ball Z" I think back to being a child watching Goku form the spirit bomb against Freeza, and it being the most epic thing that had ever happened.

As of late I've even been thinking... an optimal dub of DBZ SHOULDN'T straight up translate all those repetitive lines of "he's even stronger now", "my power level is higher than yours" because they shouldn't be there in the first place and it's pretty terrible dialogue. Give me some witty commentary/banter/shit-talk instead, don't tell me what I can see. As long as it essentially conveys "I'm stronger than you" or "these fighters are fast" in one way or another, have fun.

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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by JohnnyCashKami » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:53 am

WittyUsername wrote:The way I see it, while the Faulconer score had no reason to exist in the first place, there’s no point in pretending that it never existed to begin with. If you’re going to include the dub on a home video release, you might as well include the replacement music as an optional track.
Doesn't FUNimation have to pay a royalty whenever the Faulconer Productions score is used? The streamed version on Xbox/Windows features the original Japanese music, for example.

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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by Majin Buu » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:29 am

Fizzer wrote:As of late I've even been thinking... an optimal dub of DBZ SHOULDN'T straight up translate all those repetitive lines of "he's even stronger now", "my power level is higher than yours" because they shouldn't be there in the first place and it's pretty terrible dialogue. Give me some witty commentary/banter/shit-talk instead, don't tell me what I can see. As long as it essentially conveys "I'm stronger than you" or "these fighters are fast" in one way or another, have fun.
It's not a dub's place to outright alter dialogue like that. A good dub should just translate the show as faithfully as possible. Gaffer Tape mentioned this in another recent thread, but you can faithfully translate dialogue in a way where it doesn't read as repetitive or boring. What you're talking about is straight up adding dialogue that wasn't there originally, altering the intent of the original scriptwriters (you know, the people who actually made the goddamn show in the first place).

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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:43 am

JohnnyCashKami wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:The way I see it, while the Faulconer score had no reason to exist in the first place, there’s no point in pretending that it never existed to begin with. If you’re going to include the dub on a home video release, you might as well include the replacement music as an optional track.
Doesn't FUNimation have to pay a royalty whenever the Faulconer Productions score is used? The streamed version on Xbox/Windows features the original Japanese music, for example.
That hasn’t stopped them from including the score on all of their non-Dragon Box releases.

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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by MrTennek » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:51 pm

Majin Buu wrote:
Fizzer wrote:As of late I've even been thinking... an optimal dub of DBZ SHOULDN'T straight up translate all those repetitive lines of "he's even stronger now", "my power level is higher than yours" because they shouldn't be there in the first place and it's pretty terrible dialogue. Give me some witty commentary/banter/shit-talk instead, don't tell me what I can see. As long as it essentially conveys "I'm stronger than you" or "these fighters are fast" in one way or another, have fun.
It's not a dub's place to outright alter dialogue like that. A good dub should just translate the show as faithfully as possible. Gaffer Tape mentioned this in another recent thread, but you can faithfully translate dialogue in a way where it doesn't read as repetitive or boring. What you're talking about is straight up adding dialogue that wasn't there originally, altering the intent of the original scriptwriters (you know, the people who actually made the goddamn show in the first place).
The Japanese language is extremely limited in range and variety compared to that of English. Look at how many words they have to borrow from us. It's no wonder translators make so many changes to the monotonous and repetitive dialogue...

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Re: I love the Funimation Dub pre-Kai

Post by Majin Buu » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:01 am

MrTennek wrote:The Japanese language is extremely limited in range and variety compared to that of English. Look at how many words they have to borrow from us. It's no wonder translators make so many changes to the monotonous and repetitive dialogue...
Again, there's a difference between altering the dialogue in a way that reads better in English while remaining faithful to the original script vs. changing it to something completely different that removes the original intent. The latter is what the Z dub did (a lot) and that's where we run into the issue of actual plot points and characterization being altered, which gets to what I and many others have always said about Z: When you take into account all of the changes Funimation made to the show for their English dub, dub fans and sub fans are watching two very different shows. Sub fans and dub fans are not fans of the same Dragon Ball Z.

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